Brand new, but don't want extract - EQUIPMENT Q's

[HopSong]

I see you are a "number cruncher" which explains your desire for bottom line perfection. I think we all desire that goal.. but, as JonM said.. there are a lot of things to learn to control. I'm starting with extracts.. I've made some nice beers. Then on to extracts with grains. I may never go beyond that with the results that have pleased me so far.

However, my next step is to try the BIAB.. One of the nice things about grain brewing is the cost for materials is less .. but you are adding another piece of equipment to use and STORE when not using it. I'm running out of room.. I've gleaned a ton of bottles.. I have kegs but haven't used them yet. Brew pots, carboys, etc.. I have to figure a long term game plan and start getting rid of some stuff.

I'd say.. start easy.. and work your way into the more complex that has more variables to learn to control. Jon hit it on the head. Too many variables.. how do you find what went wrong. Unless you have someone to brew with, (a mentor) "I" would have a difficult time jumping directly into grain.

Incidentally, I don't know if there are any groups in your area.. but, a few miles north there is a very good group called the Sonoma Beerocrats.. lots of chances to rub shoulders with some good brewers. I am going to spend tomorrow with and experienced grain brewer. I hope to learn a bunch.

 

[Conan]

Starting to notice a consensus: ferm temps are crucial. Yes, yes they are. I went AG before I really had a good system for fermenting and it's caused a couple woes. Actually, I still use my not good system because we don't have room for a chamber in the apartment. Currently, I use my boil kettle as a swamp cooler. Fill half way with cool water, add fermenter, and change out ice packs twice a day for a week and a half. Sound like fun? It's not, especially in summer. If you have a little room for a chamber, definitely go that route. However, you can get by with a low-tech method like mine. Your beer just needs a little longer to clean up (.5-1 week extra). Kyle

 

[Snicks]

Starting to notice a consensus: ferm temps are crucial. Yes, yes they are. I went AG before I really had a good system for fermenting and it's caused a couple woes. Actually, I still use my not good system because we don't have room for a chamber in the apartment. Currently, I use my boil kettle as a swamp cooler. Fill half way with cool water, add fermenter, and change out ice packs twice a day for a week and a half. Sound like fun? It's not, especially in summer. If you have a little room for a chamber, definitely go that route. However, you can get by with a low-tech method like mine. Your beer just needs a little longer to clean up (.5-1 week extra). Kyle

I also use a cheap swamp cooler, just a $7 Rubbermaid tub half full of water and two frozen 2L soda bottles I swap back and forth once a day. But do you really try to keep it that cool for a week and a half? I believe almost all of the off-flavors will be produced in the first 3-4 days or however long it takes for fermentation to significantly slow down.

Keeping it cool this way really isn't such a burden.

 

[Conan]

Snicks,
I try to keep it at ferm temps (66-68F) through fermentation. I haven't noticed off flavors, and I guess it's more of a works for me scenario at this point. Do I need to go that long? Nah, probably not necessary. Is it habit? Yup. To be really honest I don't watch it all that closely after about 5 days, but still try to keep it around 70. This time of year it's fairly easy and I don't regret using the swamp cooler. In summer, though, I can't brew. It's almost impossible to keep ferm temps below 75-80, as it's above 90F in the apartment. This is when the chamber would be great. (This post is in no way meant to sound snippy.) Kyle

 

[husker]

I just made the switch to AG and love it! Of course the first time was a little hectic but it turned out great! I would get a few extract brews under your belt and read as much as you can on AG. Watch some Youtube videos on it!

I did the mash tun outlined on a previous reply.

I have this burner-
Bass Pro Shops® 30-Quart Propane Turkey Fryer | Bass Pro Shops

The pot is just big enough to do full boils, but you have to watch close. You could use it for strike and sparge water and use your boil pot for the wort. (the rails that hold the pot in place just come off. The edges of the burner are also about half an inch higher then the middle bracket so the pot that comes with it will sit right in, I think it will be fine to just set another pot right on top.) The price can not be beat!

You have the chiller and if your LHBS will mill the grain you are in business! I think you could do all of this for around 100 bucks.

 

[sheeshomatic]

Hmm. I've personally never made an extract brew. I started making 1 gallon AG batches from a kit from Brooklyn Brewshop. Things quickly escalated. The mashing process wasn't all that difficult and was easy enough to understand. I don't think I've yet to make a bad beer. At least to my taste buds. I do keep getting more and more precise the more I brew of course and that pays dividends.

By the way, I still use all the equipment from the 1 gallon kit - the gallon jug is used for my starters and for yeast washing, etc. I'll even use it on occasion to split a batch to experiment with different yeast or adjuncts just for kicks. Money and experience well spent.

 

[gleemonger]

Thank you all so much for the advice! I would say I should for sure do a couple more extract batches - well, extract with some specialty grains to see how that works. And of course I need to at least taste the finished product of my first batch, which should be ready in a couple weeks hopefully. I know roughly what to look for in taste to know if I screwed anything up - maybe not everything though. I might not actually know if it's just not that great of a kit either, but we'll see. I've really been working hard on my tasting ability - to pick out every little flavor.

I've been extremely careful every step of the way - but there are just two things that might affect the end result:

1. I didn't get the rolling boil because I tried to boil too much water on an electric stove. It took forever to boil to begin with, and only "rolled" when I put the lid on - which I know you're not supposed to do once the malt is in there. When I moved it back to the stove after adding the LME, I was "waiting" for it to get to a rolling boil again, like an idiot, before throwing in the first hop addition... I was only supposed to wait 5 minutes, but ended up waiting an extra 15. It never came to a rolling boil, so I gave up and just did the whole thing with a mellow boil. So the fact that it was never rolling, and the fact that I actually boiled the wort for an extra 15 minutes in the beginning (so a total of 75 minutes instead of 60) will probably affect things. I'm just not sure what to look for yet on that one - as far as how it'll affect the taste.

2. Fermentation temp - yeah, I read enough forums before attempting my first batch to know how important that is. One thing I actually have plenty of is space - we have a big storage space just behind our apartment... it's connected, but it's not heated. I had planned on fermenting out there, but I know it can drop down to the 40's at night, so needed to construct something to keep consistent and appropriate temp. After looking at all the alternatives, I decided to go with the rubbermaid tote / fish tank heater idea - and actually purchased the supplies. Then I noticed there was no outlet! I eventually found one in a room that only the landlord is supposed to use and after two weeks of trying to get them to let me use the outlet and not getting replies, I decided to change up the plan, at least on the first batch, and ferment in the closet of our guest room. It's nice and dark, low airflow, and after testing temps in there throughout the day with a thermometer - I noticed that it never drops below about 61, and never goes above 70. So I've been fermenting in there and just hoping that it'll be sufficient - it's a hell of a lot easier than the rubbermaid tote thing, that's for sure. I realize the wort temp is a little higher, so hopefully I'm not running too warm, and hopefully a potential temperature swing of up to 10 degrees isn't too much of an issue. I've taken 3 hydrometer readings so far and measured the temp of the actual wort - 2 were at 68, and 1 was at 71. THINK I'LL BE OKAY??

As I mentioned, since I already have a cooler that I can probably convert into a mash tun, I would just need the parts, plus eventually a grain mill. To do BIAB, I would just need the bag and also eventually a grain mill. So here's my plan for now, based on all your advice:
1. Stick with extract / specialty grain brewing for one or two more batches to be sure I've ironed out all the kinks in my process.
2. Get a bag, buy some milled grain at my LHBS, and try BIAB for a batch or two.
3. Get parts to convert my cooler into a mash tun and try that method too (also after buying milled grain at the store) for a batch or two.
4. Based on which method is my favorite, get a grain mill and go to town on said method.

 

[gleemonger]

Incidentally, I don't know if there are any groups in your area.. but, a few miles north there is a very good group called the Sonoma Beerocrats.. lots of chances to rub shoulders with some good brewers. I am going to spend tomorrow with and experienced grain brewer. I hope to learn a bunch.

I've been looking into clubs in my area, but don't plan on going until I have at least a few brews done, so I'm not totally lost with nothing to offer. Sonoma Beerocrats does sound like a good one - I actually sampled some of the beers made by some of its members at a festival in Fairfax, and was totally blown away at how good they were. I also might check out a couple a little closer, like the Bay Area Mashers in Oakland or the Bay City Brewers in South SF. I'm pretty fortunate to have a mentor too - but he lives an hour south of me, and we don't get together all that often... but I have learned some valuable tips from him as well. The homebrew community seems like a pretty cool one... I look forward to the day when I have something to offer myself...

 

[Dan]

You can make a mashtun out of your cooler without the expense of a ballvalve which cost around $10 for brass and $35 for stainless. If you go to youtube and search "batch sparge" the first one that comes up is by a guy named Don Osborn. He was able to make one with out a valve just using tubing and a stainless steel braided water line. He also shows how easy batch sparging is. Good video!

 

[gleemonger]

You can make a mashtun out of your cooler without the expense of a ballvalve which cost around $10 for brass and $35 for stainless. If you go to youtube and search "batch sparge" the first one that comes up is by a guy named Don Osborn. He was able to make one with out a valve just using tubing and a stainless steel braided water line. He also shows how easy batch sparging is. Good video!

Yeah great video! I know it adds a whole new step to the process, but it looks pretty fun to me......

 

[passedpawn]

You can make a mashtun out of your cooler without the expense of a ballvalve which cost around $10 for brass and $35 for stainless. If you go to youtube and search "batch sparge" the first one that comes up is by a guy named Don Osborn. He was able to make one with out a valve just using tubing and a stainless steel braided water line. He also shows how easy batch sparging is. Good video!

I got started in AG watching Don. My first mash tun was just an old cooler with the tubing pulled through the drain. I used electrical tape to make it a tight fit. Then I used the braid off a water supply line. Very ghetto, but cheap cheap way into AG (and it worked fine).

If I had just stopped there, I could truly claim I'm saving money. But the gleam of stainless and electricity and gadgetry was too much to resist - I'm weak

 

[m1k3]

Great advice from everyone, so I'll keep this short:

I too got started brewing with William's Brewing kits. I made 5 kits before going all grain. My biggest complaint with those kits: while I learned about fermentation, sanitation, and some of the brewing process, the recipe is totally hidden from you. I didn't know what hops I was using, how much did the packet weigh?, how many IBUs would that contribute?, what type/quantity of grains were mashed to create the extract? The instructions kept so much a mystery... I wasn't cooking- I was making mac-n-cheese out of a box.

I found a local home brew store and then I was convinced I needed more control of the recipe after I tried steeping a muslin bag with a pound of chocolate malt a William's Double Stout kit. (I was blown away by how much fresher it tasted and how much flavor there was from just stepping some grain along with the kit!)

If I had to do it over again here's the advice I'd give myself to speed up the learning process (and give the most bang for the buck):

1) Book number one that helped me: How to Brew by John Palmer
2) Book number two: Brewing Classic Styles (there is no shame in extract brewing and the book gives all grain versions too should you decide to go AG)
3) Help someone brew AG and watch. (I took a class at the local home brew store since I didn't know anybody.)
4) If you don't have a propane burner, then a turkey frier is great if you are on a budget (about $40 when you find the sale). Even the cheap aluminum pot comes in handy now and then.

As they say in the Ad... "Brewing is easy the William's way", but I get much more satisfaction by brewing MY beer.

 

[Vomtaylor]

you sound just like me a few weeks ago. i strated with extract and was quickly over it... started pricing out AG equipment and saw how much $ goes into it..... so..... i just started buying items at like $50 a pop and collecting the bare bones to put a complete system together. i picked up new 9 gallong Bayou SS pots for around $50 shipped online. Started buying pulming gear from bargainfittings.... a 10 gal cooler from Homedepot.. in about 2 months (just as my extract kegs were getting empty) I had enough to brew my first AG. I love it!! There is so much more you can do.. and the cost savings it great!!

Good luck..