Braid vs. manifold?

[slothorentropy]

I just upsized my mash tun from a 5gal Igloo to a square 10gal Coleman. I've still got the bazooka tube I was using in the Igloo, and having done one batch with it in the new tun seem to get in the neighborhood of 65% efficiency. I'd like to do a little better.

I'm torn between a longer braid and a manifold. I'm not an extremely handy guy and have limited access to tools that would get the job done... what's my best course of action? If it's a braid, is there a certain type or brand that tends to work well & that I can look for? If a manifold, could anyone recommend an idiot-proof design that doesn't require a ton of tools?

 

[AiredAle]

Are you a batch or fly sparger? The answer to this question will guide your choice of manifold or braid. Both types will be fine for batch sparging, but braids won't give you the best efficiency in fly sparging due to the flow of wort through the grain bed. See the chapter in Palmer's book on the flow of fluids in manifolds and how to design them for the best efficiency.

Personally, I like copper pipe manifolds. Easy to make, robust, easy to clean. Others may have different opinions...

To make a copper pipe manifold, requires a hacksaw, a vise, a tape measure, a file to de-burr, a pair of pliers to pinch the fittings so the pipes fit tightly, and maybe some soldering skill and equipment to make the adaptor that goes from the manifold to the valve on your mash tun.

Search around in the DIY and equipment sections of this forum for lots more specific and detailed info on manifold building.

 

[slothorentropy]

Oh yeah sorry--batch sparging all the way. I don't foresee a time in the near future where I'd care to switch; everything I've read and experienced up to this point suggests that (for me, at least) the extra time and effort isn't worth the bit of extra savings & efficiency.

 

[DrJerryrigger]

Then go with the stainless braid. It's much easier to make and might even cost less than a copper manifold.
That said, I love my copper manifold, but I fly (most of the time).

 

[rednekhippiemotrcyclfreak]

I made a copper manifold. A few pieces of copper pipe, elbows and tee's. The only tool I used was a hacksaw. I hold the pieces together with
plastic tie wraps, no soldering. I can disassemble the manifold to clean.
It works great, excellent flow and filtering for sparging.

 

[DaveWade]

I have a 4ft braid in a 48 gallon cooler that seems to work really well. I'm batch sparging also. I got the braid from using a washing machine connector, pulled out the vinyl hose and coiled up some 16 gauge wire and pushed it on so the water weight and grain won't smash it flat. There is a really good YouTube video if you search how to build your own mash tun. It's the top video I think and is a guy and girl walking you through it.

 

[Theis]

I love my 10 gallon rectangular cooler with 1" stainless braid from water heater, just bullet-proof. I've crushed to flour consistency (oops) and it still ran clear within two quarts and no stuck sparges. I hose clamped a copper cap on the end to weigh it down so it doesn't float around in the mash.

 

[slothorentropy]

What do you guys think about the configuration of the braid? I was thinking I wanted something longer that could form a loop at the bottom of the tun and cover more area. Would that make for better efficiency, possibly, than my 12" long, straight bazooka screen? http://www.midwestsupplies.com/the-bazooka-screen.html

 

[Theis]

I don't think it matters how long the stainless braid is as far as efficiency goes with batch sparging, you are just trying to get the dissolved sugars in the sparge water out of the tun into the boil pot. I like my longer braid because it has more surface area to prevent stuck sparges. Fly sparging is a different story.

 

[Accidic]

I got 64% with my manifold on the last batch I did and that was with a crappy grind with a magic bullet. New mill came friday and I'm expecting mid 80s in my next batch. Highest I got with braid was only ~72%. With my manifold I've topped out with 93% at best and 84, 86x3, & 89 on the previous 5 batches.

I would note that my manifold is stainless steel pan based rather than copper tube or pvc however but I have less than 12 bucks tied up in the whole thing (~24 if you count the broken drill bits and hacksaw blade). But I've heard of more than a few people who've gotten high 80s and low 90s with either of the tubing routes. My 93 had faint tannin taste to it tho so I've not pushed as hot or as hard as before.

 

[slothorentropy]

I've never had a stuck sparge, for whatever reason. I use rice hulls a lot and mash pretty thin. Knocking on wood as I type, however.

So yeah, I guess another way to phrase this would be: does the length of the screen or braid have any effect on efficiency? I'd guess not, since really when batch sparging all the screen is doing is preventing the valve from becoming clogged... right?

 

[DrJerryrigger]

I've never had a stuck sparge, for whatever reason. I use rice hulls a lot and mash pretty thin. Knocking on wood as I type, however.

So yeah, I guess another way to phrase this would be: does the length of the screen or braid have any effect on efficiency? I'd guess not, since really when batch sparging all the screen is doing is preventing the valve from becoming clogged... right?

Yeah, I think a 1/2" copper pipe with a wad of stainless steel scrubbing pad rubber banded to it would give you about the same results.

 

[avidhomebrewer]

I like the SS braid, from a toilet water line. Very easy to make, even for a non-handy guy like myself.

 

[theonetrueruss]

I used to batch sparge and got great efficiency with a boil screen. Then I got a bigger ice chest and my efficiency dropped a lot. It turned out I was leaving about 2/3Gallon of wort behind in my ice chest. The old one was just shaped so that it drained better. I built a manifold and now I can drain all but about 12 oz. I switched to fly sparging but I would still recommend a manifold. The cost was a lot less than I thought it would be and even with limited skill I was able to put it together in a day.

Anyhow.. I'd suggest the copper manifold. A longer braid just isn't going to make any difference in batch sparging.

 

[alemonster]

braid here. super easy!! but can't go wrong with either a manifold or braid.

 

[Beezy]

This is what I did. I took tubing and cut notches in it and put the braid over it. No way you will collapse it. Throwing out the pilot batch, the worst I have done was on a big stout this weekend. 75%. I crush fine. And up to 82%.

 

[rico567]

If you're chasing efficiency: build a manifold and fly sparge.

If you're lazy like me: use a 9" piece of stainless braid and batch sparge.

I don't know what my efficiency is and don't particularly care, But my refractometer says my numbers are on when I mash, and the hydrometer says the beer is fermenting out fine. It tastes great, so I'm content.

 

[Beezy]

If you're chasing efficiency: build a manifold and fly sparge.

If you're lazy like me: use a 9" piece of stainless braid and batch sparge.

I don't know what my efficiency is and don't particularly care, But my refractometer says my numbers are on when I mash, and the hydrometer says the beer is fermenting out fine. It tastes great, so I'm content.

I get higher eff batch sparging than my friends that fly. They also have a lot more experience. IDK

 

[Accidic]

I've heard you can push further without tannin extraction going fly but it you can get 80s+ via batch it doesn't seem like it's worth the extra effort (to me anyway) that fly entails. At the end of the day you should go with whatever method you prefer. You can make fine beer with either method. Use what makes you happy.

For me batch works, it complements my laziness, and I was able to put one together for under $20 after my ss setup got trashed in transit when we moved. PS... What good is insurance when they weasel out of paying?

 

[matt2778]

I built my manifold out of cpvc for next to nothing. The only tools needed would be a cheap hacksaw. Didn't use glue either which allows me to take it apart and clean it between batches. I've just started ag brewing and I got 62% on my first batch, 70% on my second and 76% on my third. This was using premilled grains so Im sure those numbers would improve if I milled my own.

 

[JRems]

The braids are expensive, and I have not had good luck with them. 1/2" copper manifold cost about $20 to make and works great! Just need a hacksaw and solder/torch.

 

[DrJerryrigger]

The braids are expensive, and I have not had good luck with them. 1/2" copper manifold cost about $20 to make and works great! Just need a hacksaw and solder/torch.

The braids are about the same price as copper, maybe a little less, and much easier to make.
I like a finer blade than a hack saw's, though those work too. I happened to have a scroll saw so a thin cut was easy for me, and took less work. Also you don't even need to solder it. In fact, you can clean them better if you just leave them press fit. All the little gaps just work like more cut marks.

I still say, if your lazy and batch sparg go with a braid (a short cheap one). If you want a project and or fly sparge, make a manifold. It doesn't even have to be a great one.

 

[emjay]

The braids are expensive, and I have not had good luck with them. 1/2" copper manifold cost about $20 to make and works great! Just need a hacksaw and solder/torch.

Where are you pricing braids that you find them expensive? They're around the same price as a simple copper manifold for a small cooler, cheaper than the manifolds sized for larger coolers, and a fair bit cheaper than large manifolds using lots of tees and crosses (which are really only necessary for fly sparging). Keep in mind, a long braid (and even a large manifold) are absolutely unnecessary for batch sparging - buying that 4' braid is a waste of money, when 4" will accomplish the same thing.

AND you even get the advantages of stainless steel to boot, which some people go to great expense to use for their entire brewery.

 

[emjay]

I still say, if your lazy and batch sparg go with a braid (a short cheap one). If you want a project and or fly sparge, make a manifold. It doesn't even have to be a great one.

I mostly agree with this, though personally I would use a stainless false bottom if I ever switched to fly sparging. Copper (and CPVC) manifolds seem to be useful for both methods, but ideal for neither.

 

[DrJerryrigger]

I mostly agree with this, though personally I would use a stainless false bottom if I ever switched to fly sparging. Copper (and CPVC) manifolds seem to be useful for both methods, but ideal for neither.

I agree with your sentiment, but a SS false bottom is much more difficult to construct and more expensive, and after all this thread is "Braid vs. Manifold". There are other draw backs to a false bottoms, but it seems inappropriate to get into that here. But in summery; I fly, and really like my copper manifold, but I'd like to have a FB too.

 

[JRems]

I was just saying braids are expensive considering what they are, which is a floppy peice of stainless which I think is overpriced since you throw the inside away. I was just stating for a similar price I would rather have a copper manifold. I only soldered the center section which exits the cooler so it will drain completely with a siphon and only leaves a couple tablespoons of wort behind. All that is really needed is a hacksaw, I used a bandsaw with a thinner blade but I know not everyone has a bandsaw.

 

[DrJerryrigger]

I was just saying braids are expensive considering what they are, which is a floppy peice of stainless which I think is overpriced since you throw the inside away. I was just stating for a similar price I would rather have a copper manifold. I only soldered the center section which exits the cooler so it will drain completely with a siphon and only leaves a couple tablespoons of wort behind. All that is really needed is a hacksaw, I used a bandsaw with a thinner blade but I know not everyone has a bandsaw.

I do agree with the price difference vs end product debate. But for someone who doesn't want to make such a thing a braid is an easy short cut which works well enough.