Saison Boulevard Smokestack Series Tank 7 Farmhouse Ale Clone

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Schumed said:
awesome thread

Our club is planning to do a saison experiement...basically make a basic saison and split into 1gallon jugs and ferement with about 8 different strains

thanks for the info
Click to expand...

Sounds like a fun, tasty experiment :) I hope you share the results!
 
Can someone convert this hopping schedule to oz or grams and times for the 70 min boil for a 5 gallon batch? Thanks


Hops
Magnum - 6 IBU at 98 C
Simcoe - 5 IBU at 15
After beginning of boil Amarillo - 15.7 IBU at 5
Before end of boil Amarillo - 10.7 IBU in the whirlpool
 
bearcamp said:
Can someone convert this hopping schedule to oz or grams and times for the 70 min boil for a 5 gallon batch? Thanks


Hops
Magnum - 6 IBU at 98 C
Simcoe - 5 IBU at 15
After beginning of boil Amarillo - 15.7 IBU at 5
Before end of boil Amarillo - 10.7 IBU in the whirlpool
Click to expand...

just use some brewing software to match the IBU's...the Amarillo at the end is the most important

I believe I posted my recipe in the thread some where...its a 5 gallon batch
 
Saw that in some of the recipes provided by boulevard, they suggested wyeast 3787. Has anyone tried that yeast with this clone? If so, were you happy with the results?
 
I brewed this using recipe from OP about 4wks ago.
In primary at 78F used WL 530 (abbey similar to 3787). Used a 2l starter and had a blowout from my 8.6G speidel fermenter!
3 gallon head space was not enough.
80% attenuation 1074 to 1014
I did taste it last night and the 530 really shined fruit and peppery finish.
I also altered the dry hop with mosaic instead of amarillo so should be a fruit forward ale.
Planning the cold crash for a week after another 5days dryhopping.
fingers crossed should be a good one!
 
goondog said:
I brewed this using recipe from OP about 4wks ago.
In primary at 78F used WL 530 (abbey similar to 3787). Used a 2l starter and had a blowout from my 8.6G speidel fermenter!
3 gallon head space was not enough.
80% attenuation 1074 to 1014
I did taste it last night and the 530 really shined fruit and peppery finish.
I also altered the dry hop with mosaic instead of amarillo so should be a fruit forward ale.
Planning the cold crash for a week after another 5days dryhopping.
fingers crossed should be a good one!
Click to expand...

You're advice on the blowout saved me. I almost didn't hook up a blow-off tube to my bucket, but have a speidel as well I can appreciate how agressive the yeast (3787) must be to have a blowout. I had Krausen pouring out of the tube within 6 hours.

I hit a similar OG of 1074, so we will see how well 3787 attenuates. But it smells great.
 
T-roach said:
Saw that in some of the recipes provided by boulevard, they suggested wyeast 3787. Has anyone tried that yeast with this clone? If so, were you happy with the results?
Click to expand...

IMO, there is no way that is going to result in anything close to Tank 7.

A spot on clone may be near impossible to pull off. The story behind the beer is something about a "black sheep" of a fermentor (#7) which they though was giving them issues from some sort of contamination. So I think the story goes they liked the saison they made in it, and just kept using that fermentor since.
 
m00ps said:
IMO, there is no way that is going to result in anything close to Tank 7.

A spot on clone may be near impossible to pull off. The story behind the beer is something about a "black sheep" of a fermentor (#7) which they though was giving them issues from some sort of contamination. So I think the story goes they liked the saison they made in it, and just kept using that fermentor since.
Click to expand...

Actually it comes really close...go on the warm side for temp control like you would a saison
 
here's the blowout with WL 530 yeast. The pics were after an initial blowout after clean up and a second eruption on day 3-4!
I wonder how much yeast i lost in the krausen ?

IMG_20160119_080551936.jpg


IMG_20160119_213827975.jpg


IMG_20160119_081045973.jpg
 
Schumed said:
awesome thread

Our club is planning to do a saison experiement...basically make a basic saison and split into 1gallon jugs and ferement with about 8 different strains

thanks for the info
Click to expand...

Thank you. I thought it was good idea too. =). I'm very interested in this as I think the yeast makes all the difference. Keep us updated.

Buzz
 
Update: I used the official recipe I received from Boulevard back on page 28. I bottled about 2 months ago and holy cow is it good right now!
 
Taste wise it's pretty darn close. The real stuff has more of that farmhouse "twang" to it than mine does but they are both extremely good. Color wise it's off by a bit. The real stuff is "golden" colored while mine is yellow-gold if that makes sense. I'll try to post some pics tonight.
 
GreenDragon: Thanks for the info, but I am curious if the hop schedule as posted on page 28 is a little confusing:

Original:
"Hops
Magnum - 6 IBU at 98 C
Simcoe - 5 IBU at 15
After beginning of boil Amarillo - 15.7 IBU at 5
Before end of boil Amarillo - 10.7 IBU in the whirlpool"

The whole "After beginning of boil"...line did not make much sense to me as written...so I am wondering if it shouldn't be interpreted as:

Modified to remove some odd line breaks:
Hops
Magnum - 6 IBU at 98 C
Simcoe - 5 IBU at 15 min after beginning of boil
Amarillo - 15.7 IBU at 5 before end of boil
Amarillo - 10.7 IBU in the whirlpool

Does this seem to make more sense? It does to me at any rate, even tho it is still a bit funky way to list the hop time as "x min after beginning of boil".

Either way if your version is good...then that is awesome...but I may try this modified hop schedule soon.
 
I have always enjoyed this beer and plan on brewing it in a month when I return from Europe.

Anyway, what type of Pale Base Malt is everyone using for this?
I haven’t decided on the yeast yet, either 3726 or 3787, but I know I want to split a 5 gallon batch in half and do half with Brett. In order to do this, would I just wait until the 5 gallons is done fermenting and after I bottle half add the Brett to the other half that still remains in the original fermenter? Should I rack half to a secondary and then add the Brett? When should I add the Brett and what should I use? Can I use the dregs from a bottle of the Brett Saison?

Any help or links anyone can direct me to would be great. I’ve never used Brett before.

Cheers!
 
THVbrew said:
I have always enjoyed this beer and plan on brewing it in a month when I return from Europe.

Anyway, what type of Pale Base Malt is everyone using for this?
I haven’t decided on the yeast yet, either 3726 or 3787, but I know I want to split a 5 gallon batch in half and do half with Brett. In order to do this, would I just wait until the 5 gallons is done fermenting and after I bottle half add the Brett to the other half that still remains in the original fermenter? Should I rack half to a secondary and then add the Brett? When should I add the Brett and what should I use? Can I use the dregs from a bottle of the Brett Saison?

Any help or links anyone can direct me to would be great. I’ve never used Brett before.

Cheers!
Click to expand...


Any base 2 row pale malt should do...I personally can't tell a difference...this beer is all about the hops and yeast anyways

For Brett yes on saison brett dregs... they are awesome and one bottle should do it too. Boulevard adds brett at bottling and bottle conditions the bottles with the brett...that's why sometimes you get crazy carbonated bottles....I like adding brett once primary fermentation gets under 1.020...leaves brett with a lot of sugar to eat away. adding to secondary is your best bet
 
Schumed said:
Any base 2 row pale malt should do...I personally can't tell a difference...this beer is all about the hops and yeast anyways

For Brett yes on saison brett dregs... they are awesome and one bottle should do it too. Boulevard adds brett at bottling and bottle conditions the bottles with the brett...that's why sometimes you get crazy carbonated bottles....I like adding brett once primary fermentation gets under 1.020...leaves brett with a lot of sugar to eat away. adding to secondary is your best bet
Click to expand...

They've told me they add wine yeast at bottling, but the brett should be viable enough for secondary.
 
So recipe update ...straight from Boulevard

One of the local homebrew clubs got to have their Big Brew Day at Boulevard and one of my friends decided to do my clone recipe as a demo.

Head Brewer Steven came out to check out the action and confirmed a few things with the recipe that have changed

1 - flaked corn has been replaced with dextrose . Speculation... changed with the Duvel buyout...their website now list this change too.

2 - The many times ive brewed this... the color has always been a little lighter than the real thing
.which is fine with me...but he said we have been known to.add a little biscuit malt.

3 - he thought the hops schedule was dead on..but they have added bravo and citra to the mix. Ive wondered about this because Amarillo flavor profile has changed in recent years. Website list this now.

4 - He hates saison yeast...which has been no secret...he personally recommended Ardennes as a true clone for tank 7..wouldnt reveal temp range though


Time to rebrew this and give it a try
 
I brewed a trippel a while back with Ardennes and it came out extremely dry, almost wine like. Perhaps my temp was off that produced this flavor. Anyone else run into this with that strain? I don't have my notes in front of me from that brew day but if I recall i let it free rise to the low to mid 70s for the vast majority of the primary.

I dont think, from my VERY little bit of experience with that strain, it would come out very close. That being said, he is the very well respected professional brewer and im a nobody home brewer so it would be very interesting to take his advice and brew this clone with Ardennes and do a side by side. If anyone does this please report back. Thanks
 
First of all, thank you very much to the OP who shared this recipe. When I upgraded systems 2 years ago, this was my first 10 gallon batch.

I followed the original recipe's grain bill and used Magnum, Simcoe and Amarillo for the hops. It was the height of summer when I brewed this and I fermented in my basement without temp. control (likely in the low 70s. My LBHS only had one smack pack of 3711 and one of Am. Farmhouse so I bought them both and pitched half the batch for each yeast variety.

This beer was really, really nice. When fresh, I liked the Farmhouse yeast better, as I thought it let the dry hop really shine. As the beer aged (I bottled both varieties), the Saison really rounded out and I ended up liking it more. I gave a couple bottles to a local pro brewer (who's brewery focuses on IPAs, Pale Ales, Farmhouse ales & Saisons) who sent me the following text after trying the beer:

"Just got into the farmhouse ale. Very, very nice. Aroma was spot on, clarity was off the charts, super bright and effervescent. Really tasty stuff. Nice work!"

I am going pick up these yeast strains again to rebrew this beer probably next week. I plan to save and wash the yeast and try a series of beers in the Pale Ale / IPA / Saison / Farmhouse realm, perhaps blending the yeasts too. I recently had a Hill Farmstead collaboration beer that, from the brewer's mouth, used 20% oats in the grain bill. While I've seen wheat and occasionally rye in recipes in this style, does anyone have experience with using oats?
 
Okay now that it's over I can state that the recipe I used a few pages back took first for its style in the St Louis regional and a 30 overall at nationals with oxidation being by far my biggest critique (which is no fault of the recipe). I'm normally a kegger so I obviously need to purchase a bottling wand.
 
GreenDragon said:
With the varying recipes I decided to ping Boulevard on Facebook. They were ultra cool! They replied quickly and emailed me the extremely detailed recipe. You'll have to do some conversions from Plato. I asked for permission to post it to this forum and they said that's fine. Here it is:

Malts
Pale Malt - 77.5%
Pregelatinized corn flakes - 20%
Malted Wheat - 2.5%

Mash in at 63 and rest for 50 minutes.
68 - 25 min
73- 15 min
Mash off at 78

We look for a beginning of boil gravity of 15.7 and boil for 70 minutes to target 16.3 at the end of the boil.

Hops
Magnum - 6 IBU at 98 C
Simcoe - 5 IBU at 15
After beginning of boil Amarillo - 15.7 IBU at 5
Before end of boil Amarillo - 10.7 IBU in the whirlpool

We cool the wort to 19C and let it rise to 21C. We ferment at 21 until we reach 7 Plato at which point we temp up to 23 for the remainder of fermentation. Ending Plato is 2.2.

Dry Hopping
Amarillo .089 kg/bbl

The yeast we use for Tank 7 Farmhouse Ale is our house Belgian strain. For homebrewing purposes, we recommend Wyeast 3787 to approximate our house yeast character.
Click to expand...


Can someone clarify this hop schedule with times
 
Thought my mash was dead on for the full 60, must have been low. 3711 took mine down to 1.000. Going from 8% projected to 10% is a shock. I've never had this happen before. I'm not complaining though, it's still a great beer!
 
So I did this recipe and per recommendation of Boulevard posted in prior responses used Ardens yeast. Wyeast 3522. This is the yeast to use in my opinion. This is my 2nd try and it is 90% tank 7. I think I just need to increase the late hops/dry hops a bit more...Prior I used 3711 french and it was ok but not really tank 7. This is more like tank 7.

Mash

145 for 60 min
155 for 30
168 (mash out for 10)

12 lb 2 row
6 oz red wheat
4 oz victory
2.5 corn sugar added 3 days after primary ferm took off

.13 oz Magnum 1st wort hop
.45 simcoe at 15 to end of boil
3.45 oz Amarillo 5 min till end of boil
2 oz Amarillo Whirlpool after 185 F.
1.5 Amarillo and 1 oz Citra DH in Keg. In a previous post the brewmaster said they are starting to use Citra in the dry hop.

Pitched at 67 for 24 hours. Free rise to 72 and toward the end of day 5 raise to 76.

OG was 1.052 prior to sugar addition and finished at 1.005. 8.5% right on the dot. Color is matching but I think it just needs a bit more late hops. I think next time I may do a 10 gal batch and split regular tank 7 and saison brett. I hear it is the same base recipe but saison brett doens't get dry hopped.

Good luck.. brewing! Cheers.
 
Schumed said:
So recipe update ...straight from Boulevard

One of the local homebrew clubs got to have their Big Brew Day at Boulevard and one of my friends decided to do my clone recipe as a demo.

Head Brewer Steven came out to check out the action and confirmed a few things with the recipe that have changed

1 - flaked corn has been replaced with dextrose . Speculation... changed with the Duvel buyout...their website now list this change too.

2 - The many times ive brewed this... the color has always been a little lighter than the real thing
.which is fine with me...but he said we have been known to.add a little biscuit malt.

3 - he thought the hops schedule was dead on..but they have added bravo and citra to the mix. Ive wondered about this because Amarillo flavor profile has changed in recent years. Website list this now.

4 - He hates saison yeast...which has been no secret...he personally recommended Ardennes as a true clone for tank 7..wouldnt reveal temp range though


Time to rebrew this and give it a try
Click to expand...



Have you formulated a new recipe to post?
 
Schumed said:
So recipe update ...straight from Boulevard

One of the local homebrew clubs got to have their Big Brew Day at Boulevard and one of my friends decided to do my clone recipe as a demo.

Head Brewer Steven came out to check out the action and confirmed a few things with the recipe that have changed

1 - flaked corn has been replaced with dextrose . Speculation... changed with the Duvel buyout...their website now list this change too.

2 - The many times ive brewed this... the color has always been a little lighter than the real thing
.which is fine with me...but he said we have been known to.add a little biscuit malt.

3 - he thought the hops schedule was dead on..but they have added bravo and citra to the mix. Ive wondered about this because Amarillo flavor profile has changed in recent years. Website list this now.

4 - He hates saison yeast...which has been no secret...he personally recommended Ardennes as a true clone for tank 7..wouldnt reveal temp range though


Time to rebrew this and give it a try
Click to expand...



Have you formulated a new recipe to post?
 
Question regarding the substitution of the flaked corn with sugar... Was this likely done on a cost-basis?

I'm thinking of trying this recipe and wondering which way I should go (Sugar vs Corn). Has anyone tried it both ways?

I'm glad I read bearcamp's post on adding the sugar to the fermentor after fermentation begins. I was worried about the amount of sugar being added under the assumption that it would be going into the boil. So just to be clear - all this sugar gets added to the primary after fermentation begins? At what point do you add the sugar? Should I be looking for certain gravity reading?

Thanks!
 
Have brewed this 3 times now, so good and very close to the original (imo) and even my wife likes it, which is saying something hah!

This is first sample after carbing in the keg for 48 hour, so 11 days grain to glass.

315zfbo.jpg


Quick recipe synopsis in case anyone is interested:

70% 2-row
20% Flaked Corn (prefer this versus using corn sugar)
10% White Wheat

Hop shots/extract to bitter to 30 IBU (5 ml of the stuff Yakima Valley sells)
2 oz Simcoe, 3 oz Amarillo; evenly split between FO (15 min) and 180 F (15 min)
2 oz Amarillo, 2 oz Citra; dry hop after primary fermentation (typically day 6 or so), I use a paint bag to avoid hop matter and haven't noticed a drop in flavor/aroma from when I used to just dump pellets and cold crash.

Water profile: 54, 5, 18, 54, 103 (Ca, Na, Mg, Cl and SO4) built from RO.

Mash pH = 5.35 (measured)

WLP670 (use this for every saison I do, plays very well with hops), set at 70 F the whole time (don't have a thermowell though), probe is taped to the side of the conical with electrical tape and the whole thing is in a room with ambient temps in the very low 60s. Fermwrap is used with a temp controller.

FG = 1.080 (6 gallon), OG = 1.010, so ABV was ~9.8% (I prefer alternate formula)

WLP670 has Brett in it, so I had enough extra beer after kegging for 1 bomber, going to age it for a year and see what happens...
 
I ended up brewing a variation of this recipe over the weekend. I am limited on 10 gallons for mash volume and brewed 10 gallons with this recipe. 25.5 lbs of grain is pretty much max capacity. Was thinking about adding corn sugar, but forgot about it. 1.065 OG

19 lbs breiss 2-row 74%
5.5 flaked maize 22%
1 lbs white wheat 4%
7 g CACL 5g Gypsum in mash
1tsp lactic acid 88% per 8 gallons of sparge water

Mashed at 154 for over 60 minutes or so getting stuff ready.
Possibly could have used my sous vide to step up water temperatures, but I don't have a pump system.
How necessary is the step mash with flaked corn anyways?

1.25 oz CTZ 60 minutes 28 ibu
1 oz simcoe 10 minutes 7.5 ibu
2 oz amarillo 5 minutes 5 ibu
2 oz amarillo 40 minute hopstand

Probably dry hopping with a 1-2 oz per gallon amarillo.

Splitting my batch with Omega American farmhouse and Wyeast 3724. I made starters for both, but may set some aside for saving those yeast cultures.

Still debating ferment temps, but its about 65 right now and I am bout to oxygenate and pitch. Probably will let it free rise in steps the next few days or so.

Should have read the thread before making it, but my ingredients were pretty much decided already. Will see if CTZ is overkill. Didn't see magnum in my freezer at the time.
 
The new Tank 7 isn’t nearly as good as it has been. The biggest change for me is the body of the beer. I’ve always made it with 565. I would never remove the corn. It adds too much to what Tank 7 is/was. I heard they are going to stop putting it in 750ml bottles. I hope this is not the case. I still like it, and the bottle reuse is even better. Glad I read this. I knew the recipe wasn’t the same. I couldn’t figure out what it was, Thanks
 

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