Saison Boulevard Smokestack Series Tank 7 Farmhouse Ale Clone

[GTG]

I talked with Stephen Pauwells (Boulevard Brewmaster) at a Brewmaster's Lunch last year. He told me that they use the same yeast in all of their Belgian type beers. Differences being temperatures, pitch rates, etc.

 

[rawlus]

GTG - same yeasts for primary or same yeasts for bottle conditioning? i have a good starter of T7 dregs but if it is indeed ec1118 or some other champagne type i'll have to go get something more appropriate.

 

[GTG]

Same yeast in primary. T7 is supposed to be filtered and then re-dosed with champagne yeast for bottling.

GTG

 

[matt81]

I would Pitch the White Labs Belgian Blend (WLP575) at 64 and slowly raise to low 70's. I keep my starters small, just enough to wake up the yeast. I've had great success with my clone attempts of Tank 7.

 

[brewhappy]

Just finished a 3.5gal biab tank 7 clone. Cooled & my carboy looks like this. Used a paint strainer bag during transfer. What have I got here? Any ideas? Thanks for any & all help.

You have a bunch of protein flocs there. The high wheat content in the beer will produce more protein than in an all malt beer. Ideally you would leave this in the kettle when you chill it should fall out of suspension fairly quickly when the flocs are that large. Just give it a little extra time. You can also transfer to the fermenter and let it settle for a few hours and then transfer to another fermenter.

 

[buzzman003]

So the grains that are listed as percentages, what is the total weight to start with? Their isn't a standard weight of grain for beers so how do I use this information to start my all grain beer? I want to brew 7.5 gallons or so. What ever will fit in my 10 gallon coolers.

 

[mcl]

Amarillo 9.6 IBUs in the whirlpool

This was posted a little while ago. This line doesn't make sense to me. How do you calculate that many IBU's from a whirlpool addition?

 

[jfrizzell]

This was posted a little while ago. This line doesn't make sense to me. How do you calculate that many IBU's from a whirlpool addition?

I'm building a recipe now based on the information provided and was thinking of putting the whirlpool adding in as a 5 minute boil in BeerSmith. For my 6 gallon recipe, 53 grams of Amarillo (8.5% AA) gave me 9.6 IBU.

 

[mcl]

Thanks for the reply. I guess I need to read up on how many IBU's are gained from whirlpool additions. I was under the impression it was negligible.

 

[jfrizzell]

I think it really depends on the temperature during whirlpool. Commercial brewers whirlpool at Hugh temperatures for an extended period of time (sometimes 30-60 minutes) before chilling. If you assume that the wort temperature stays above 200 for a period of time, you're going to get some extraction. The difference in IBUs between a 1 minute boil and a 5 minute boil is pretty small. I believe once the the temp drops below 200, you're not adding IBUs, thus my back of the napkin justification for using a 5 minute boil to estimate the whirlpool IBUs.

 

[jfrizzell]

I think my next brew will be a 12 gallon batch of Tank 7. I will split this into two batches. I'll pitch a saison yeast in both (probably 3724) but for one batch, I am going to secondary with brett B in order to achieve something along the lines of Saison Brett.

Thoughts?

 

[dwarven_stout]

I think my next brew will be a 12 gallon batch of Tank 7. I will split this into two batches. I'll pitch a saison yeast in both (probably 3724) but for one batch, I am going to secondary with brett B in order to achieve something along the lines of Saison Brett.

Thoughts?

If you're going for Saison Brett, I'd recommend using Brett C. I spoke with Steven Pauwels a year or two ago, and he told me that they use a "commercial strain" but would not confirm my suspicion that they used Brett C. I'm pretty confident on that, though, and I've gotten a very similar brett profile pitching a pack of WLP645 in secondary.

 

[matt81]

Here is how my clone came out. Maybe need a little less hops on the front end and back end. Maybe add some whirfloc the last 15 minutes of boil.

 

[highgravitybacon]

Yeah... Honestly I think they're kinda shiesty for doing that. They claim bottle conditioning is "the right way to carbonate beer". I think they're trying to protect proprietary yeast strains.

I already tried one clone of this. The flavor was similar, but not quite there yet. Color was too pale and my hop flavors were more bitter than floral... that being said... its still freaking delicious.

I Reformulated my grain bill and matched my hop additions to match Boulevards IBUs and times. I'm gonna try French Saison yeast this time and I'll probably dry it out with some champagne yeast.

Ill post a report in a month or so. Cheers!

If they're giving you the recipes, times and temps, I highly doubt they're too interested in the secret yeast strain. I suspect it has more to do with the inconsistency of the product. There is no way to measure or control the amount of yeast if you bottled the fermentation yeast. It will vary per batch and per bottle. This results in a ****ty product that isn't consistent. Some bottles might carb up like mad while others languish for days or weeks longer. Your variability will result in a whole lot of pissed of customers.

By filtering the yeast, then adding a precise and known quantity of bottling yeast you have a much more consistent product. You can use a poorly flocculating yeast for fermentation, but a highly flocculent yeast for bottling and you can know that each bottle will have the same amount of crap on the bottom of it.

 

[Schumed]

Here is my attempt recipe at this clone based on the numbers I've seen

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Tank 7 Clone

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Saison
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.016
ABV (standard): 7.56%
IBU (tinseth): 37.25
SRM (morey): 6.27

FERMENTABLES:
12 lb - Pale Ale (77.9%)
3 lb - Flaked Corn (19.5%)
0.4 lb - White Wheat (2.6%)

HOPS:
0.2 oz - Magnum (AA 15) for 60 min, Type: Leaf/Whole, Use: Boil
0.21 oz - Simcoe (AA 12.7) for 45 min, Type: Leaf/Whole, Use: Boil
4 oz - Amarillo (AA 8.6) for 5 min, Type: Leaf/Whole, Use: Boil

MASH STEPS:
1) Sparge, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min

YEAST:
Wyeast - Belgian Saison 3724
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 78%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temperature: 70 F - 95 F

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Kansas City, MO, USA
Ca2: 40
Mg2: 5
SO4: 174
Na: 58
Cl: 2
HCO3: 142
Water Notes:


Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2012-11-08 17:12 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2012-11-08 17:04 UTC

 

[Schumed]

Here is my attempt recipe at this clone based on the numbers I've seen

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Tank 7 Clone

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Saison
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.016
ABV (standard): 7.56%
IBU (tinseth): 37.25
SRM (morey): 6.27

FERMENTABLES:
12 lb - Pale Ale (77.9%)
3 lb - Flaked Corn (19.5%)
0.4 lb - White Wheat (2.6%)

HOPS:
0.2 oz - Magnum (AA 15) for 60 min, Type: Leaf/Whole, Use: Boil
0.21 oz - Simcoe (AA 12.7) for 45 min, Type: Leaf/Whole, Use: Boil
4 oz - Amarillo (AA 8.6) for 5 min, Type: Leaf/Whole, Use: Boil

MASH STEPS:
1) Sparge, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min

YEAST:
Wyeast - Belgian Saison 3724
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 78%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temperature: 70 F - 95 F

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Kansas City, MO, USA
Ca2: 40
Mg2: 5
SO4: 174
Na: 58
Cl: 2
HCO3: 142
Water Notes:


Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2012-11-08 17:12 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2012-11-08 17:04 UTC

.26oz Amarillo dry hopped after 1 week fermentation

 

[highgravitybacon]

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Kansas City, MO, USA
Ca2: 40
Mg2: 5
SO4: 174
Na: 58
Cl: 2
HCO3: 142
Water Notes

The chloride for KC municipal water is 22. That is the 2011 average. I spoke with their director of water quality testing.

 

[Schumed]

The chloride for KC municipal water is 22. That is the 2011 average. I spoke with their director of water quality testing.

Oh yeah....anything else need to change?

 

[highgravitybacon]

Oh yeah....anything else need to change?

No, seems spot on.

 

[BeerMoneyBrewing]

Thanks for the recipe, I just tried the commercial example of this for the first time now that blvd is available in so cal and thought the flavors were delicious. My one qualm was that its too sweet, saisons should really finish out in the single digits. I would probably try the recipe with a lower mash to suit my preferences. Thanks again.

 

[mpride1911]

I'm drinking this right now. It was my first all grain. My efficiency was only around 55%, but it's still drinkable. I'm pleased with it. Transcribed the recipe from Beer Magazine a few months ago when I was in Afghanistan.

 

[highgravitybacon]

I'm drinking this right now. It was my first all grain. My efficiency was only around 55%, but it's still drinkable. I'm pleased with it. Transcribed the recipe from Beer Magazine a few months ago when I was in Afghanistan.

Was your recipe any different from the one in the thread?

 

[mpride1911]

My mash temp was off which is what lowered my efficiency. It was too low. I found out later that my digital thermometer is just garbage. Also I didn't use falconer's flight hops, as the store didn't have any and I chose something with a similar alpha.

 

[Schumed]

Update

I tapped my keg...It wasn't completely carbed up and was room temp...
Mine is on the left...Color is pretty close....even closer in person...Once it cools down should clear up and be pretty damn close in color

Aroma I couldn't tell the difference...The Amarillo really comes through here

Flavor very similar but not sure a perfect clone...mine I think needs to condition some more...mine taste stronger but very tasty and refreshing....thinking my efficiency was higher than normal....

I used the Belgian Saison yeast from wyeast so guessing that has a lot to do with flavor too


Overall this will be gone quick and will probably do again

 

[highgravitybacon]

What yeast and what was your fermentation like temp wise? It's a fair feat to clone this.

Save a few bottles for the KCBM competition.

 

[mpride1911]

I used the White Labs Farmhouse yeast and kept my carboy in a rubber maid tub covered in blankets next to my heater which kept the temp right around 70 throughout primary and secondary.

 

[Schumed]

What yeast and what was your fermentation like temp wise? It's a fair feat to clone this.

Save a few bottles for the KCBM competition.

I used 3724 Belgian Saison because that is what I had on hand at the time...

Fermented at 68 the first 48hours and slowly raised the temp over a few days to 76 for a few weeks.

I've heard the yeast to use to get the closest is the 3726 farmhouse ale

I like my version though...and I think its competition worthy....I will have a few entries for the KCBM comp

 

[zonker]

I used this recipe as a guide for brewing my first batch of homebrew ever. It was all-grain.

Everyone loved it. The homebrew shop guys loved it. I can't wait to brew more beer!!!

Changed things up a bit due to lack of Amarillo hops:
10.5# pale malt
3# corn
1.5# wheat malt
Hit all mashing temps on page one
Boiled with 1 oz Magnum pellets. 60min
OG = Unknown - didn't have a hydrometer
Wyeast #3726 Farmhouse
10 days in primary (wish I went longer) 1.025
Racked to secondary with 2 oz. whole Citra hops in a cloth bag.
13 days later went to Corne keg. Had to add a gallon of water to fill.
FG = 1.016
14 days on CO2 and had a beer like no other. Cheers!

 

[mpride1911]

I forgot I took a picture of the first carbonated glass.

 

[edroberts]

For those that were wondering, I don't believe Saison Brett (which is phenomenal BTW) is fermented in primary with bret. Rather Boulevard adds it at bottling.