Bottling with priming sugar BUT without oxygen ? Do you think the yeast will eat the sugar ?

[Garage12brewing]

Hey guys!

I would like to know if my bottles will prime IF :


1- Put my priming solution into the keg.

2- Purge the keg with CO2

3- Transfer my cold crashed beer from the fermentor directly to a keg ( using some pressure to do the no oxygen transfer )

4- Use my Tapcooler gun ( bottling gun ) to purge the bottles with CO2 fill my bottles with the primed beer.

5- Put my bottle at 20C for about 2 weeks before tasting...


My main concern is the lack of oxygen for the yeast to eat the priming solution... I dont know if it would work or not...

The reason why I dont carb the beer with CO2 in the keg in the fridge before bottling is because of a lack of space....

Thanks for the help.

 

[cubalz]

Yeasts can ferment sugars to alcohol and carbon dioxide in the absence of air but require oxygen for growth. You should be ok.

 

[dmtaylor]

The yeast don't need oxygen after the initial stage of fermentation, for reproduction and growth. Your bottles will prime just fine. Plenty of yeast are there to eat the priming sugar.

 

[Garage12brewing]

Cool I just learned something new. I cant wait to fill my bottles tonight. Thanks guys

 

[CascadesBrewer]

1- Put my priming solution into the keg.
2- Purge the keg with CO2

I do question these steps. To purge an entire keg with just CO2 requires a LOT of purge cycles and a LOT of CO2. There is a thread around here with the maths on that. On the other hand, filling a keg with liquid (such as a StarSan solution) and just pushing out the liquid with a few lbs of CO2 yields much less oxygen and uses much less CO2.

I have seen some handy DIY devices that can be used to add a liquid through one of the posts into a purged keg. Otherwise, you might be better to fully purge the keg (push out liquid), transfer the beer, open the lid, add the sugar, then do several purge cycles to purge the headspace of the keg. Or maybe just add some sugar to each bottle before purging and filling.

 

[HectorJ]

Oxygen is the scourge of fermented beer, normally to be avoided at all costs post-fermentation, so much so that oxygen scavaging bottle caps are a thing.

 

[Garage12brewing]

I do question these steps. To purge an entire keg with just CO2 requires a LOT of purge cycles and a LOT of CO2. There is a thread around here with the maths on that. On the other hand, filling a keg with liquid (such as a StarSan solution) and just pushing out the liquid with a few lbs of CO2 yields much less oxygen and uses much less CO2.

I have seen some handy DIY devices that can be used to add a liquid through one of the posts into a purged keg. Otherwise, you might be better to fully purge the keg (push out liquid), transfer the beer, open the lid, add the sugar, then do several purge cycles to purge the headspace of the keg. Or maybe just add some sugar to each bottle before purging and filling.

That really makes sense to me buddy. The only thing... I guess that there will be some Starsan solution left in the keg since the dip tube dont touch the bottom no ?

 

[sweetcell]

The only thing... I guess that there will be some Starsan solution left in the keg since the dip tube dont touch the bottom no ?

yes, if your dip tube is cut then it will leave star san behind - just like it would leave beer (and ideally trub) behind.

personally, i have "serving kegs" where the dip tube goes to the very bottom (leaves behind a spoonful of beer at most), vs. "fermenting kegs" and "bright kegs", etc. where the tubes are cut. i only transfer clear beer to the serving keg, and let the beer cold-crash in there before serving. depending on the beer, the first pint or two might be murky as trub is picked up and a path is cleared. after that, it's clear sailing (pouring?).

 

[Garage12brewing]

yes, if your dip tube is cut then it will leave star san behind - just like it would leave beer (and ideally trub) behind.

personally, i have "serving kegs" where the dip tube goes to the very bottom (leaves behind a spoonful of beer at most), vs. "fermenting kegs" and "bright kegs", etc. where the tubes are cut. i only transfer clear beer to the serving keg, and let the beer cold-crash in there before serving. depending on the beer, the first pint or two might be murky as trub is picked up and a path is cleared. after that, it's clear sailing (pouring?).

I do have 4 kegs... I think one of them have the dip tube very close to the bottom but the others are about 1/2 inch of the bottom... it came like that. I will use the one with the longer tube...

 

[sweetcell]

I do have 4 kegs... I think one of them have the dip tube very close to the bottom but the others are about 1/2 inch of the bottom... it came like that. I will use the one with the longer tube...

you can also purchase dip tubes, separately, and swap them out depending on how you're going to use the keg.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

That really makes sense to me buddy. The only thing... I guess that there will be some Starsan solution left in the keg since the dip tube dont touch the bottom no ?

If you have ball lock kegs, you can also invert them and get the last of the Star San out the PRV. My dip tubes run very close to the bottom so I don't worry if there is an oz or two of Star San solution.

 

[McMullan]

That really makes sense to me buddy. The only thing... I guess that there will be some Starsan solution left in the keg since the dip tube dont touch the bottom no ?

Use an extra short gas dip tube. Invert the keg and pop on an open disconnect to push out any remaining starsan. Sorted.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Fermentation is defined as energy extraction from food sources without Oxygen. Our bodies can do it when we need a quick burst of energy and can't get enough Oxygen for respiration, which results in a lactic acid 'burn' (unfortunately our muscle cells use lactic acid fermentation rather than ethanol fermentation.....wouldn't it be great to be able to get drunk by running hard - we might end up with less of an obesity problem).

Regarding the bottling process - I personally think you're going to end up with more Oxygen pickup through the extra steps than if you individually prime each bottle and bottle directly from the fermenter. Have a read through this thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...dspace-o2-in-a-bottle-conditioned-ipa.653784/If I remember correctly, the general consensus was that minimising headspace and purging headspace was the most effective way to minimise O2 pickup (purging the entire bottle isn't needed). I think (going from memory) some of the posters found adding a little bit of ascorbic acid was beneficial as well.

 

[palmtrees]

I'm not sure why you would want to use the yeast to carbonate in the bottles if you're moving the beer through a keg with CO2 anyway. I'd just put it in the keg, force carbonate, and then bottle from the keg. Or bottle with priming drops directly from the fermenter. Both of those methods seems easier and more foolproof to me. Is there a particular reason why you want to do it this way?

ETA: Just saw your comment about doing it this way because of space. You can force carb in a day, especially if you cold crash. So you'd only lose that extra keg spot for a day. You could swap out a serving keg and leave it warm for a day without much issue. But if that's not an option I'd definitely try just botting from the fermenter. You're wasting a lot of CO2 to purge a keg just so you can mix in priming sugar. All that said, the yeast will still eat the stuff and carbonate your bottles even without additional o2, so do your thing!