bottling the right way with no off flavors

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yeasty

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i have noticed that the bottling tool i use (dont know what it is called), the thing with the spring valve on the bottom that you hook to your bottling bucket spigot, creates a fair amount of bubbling and turbulence when i use it. i have been wondering if this is why some of my beers from each batch seem to have an off flavor. i wont even try to describe it, but its nasty. i always think i can tolerate it and halfway though the beer i dump it. i am assuming when you bottle you want NO BUBBLING when it transfers to the bottle. is there a better tool ? should i use my auto siphon and a clamp...this would be a pain in the arse ?
 

ExpertBrewers

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If you are using a bottling wand connected to your spigot and you fear it is causing the problem. You could always just run a small piece of tubing from the spigot and use the spigot to control the filling instead of the spring loaded bottling wand.
 

TelemarkBrew

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can you maybe try to describe the flavor a bit for us. Is it anything like wet carboard? it is also possible that a few bottles end up with a bit of infection in them.
 
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yeasty

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i will try to describe it but i know it wont help. its kind of a bitter bite that leaves a mouth feel on the tongue and lips. it persists and even builds as you drink it....one batch that i accidentally aerated when transferring to the bottling bucket had this flavor so bad i couldnt drink any of them (i did save some). but i also noticed it in an english pale ale when i shook a six pack up real good to try to get it to carb up a little quicker (i know not a thing that should be done). it is possible a few bottle did not get cleaned well enough. i have been using the sanitze feature on my dishwasher but there is always a small amount of moisture left in the bottles after that process. i have been fearful of letting them dry because i thought the time that would take would be worse ? :confused:for lack of a better description i would call it a mixture of CHEAP NASTY root beer and licorice....
 

phatuna

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I don't trust my dishwasher sanitization setting. if you read up on killing bacteria using high temperatures - you will find that bacteria die at different temps depending on what the bacteria strain is. they begin to die @ 100F - 140F and take up to an hour at these temperatures to fully die. More hearty strains will live up to boiling temperatures for longer periods of time.
My dishwasher is also a POS, but I would rather clean thoughroughly then sanitize using starsan or equivalent.
there are lots of threads here that discuss this point: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/cleaning-before-sanitation-109900/
 

Dougan

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for lack of a better description i would call it a mixture of CHEAP NASTY root beer and licorice....
I've had off flavors that match this description well in a few of my brews. It spans between yeast strains, fermentors, and extract/all grain. It's weird, but I do understand your 'bitter' description. It's not a hop bitterness but it most definitely does have a bitter bite to it. One batch was a pale ale that was a bit more on the bitter side to begin with and it's almost undrinkable. I think it might be related to fermenting temps. The past few brews I've made, I've paid strong attention to the ferm temps (and kept them low) and they've all not had this flavor. Still haven't decided if this is a coincidence or not. I should try a split batch and ferment one at 60 and one at 70 and report what I notice. I might actually do that this weekend, as I have a lot of extract lying around and nothing to really do with it except make starters...
 
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yeasty

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I've had off flavors that match this description well in a few of my brews. It spans between yeast strains, fermentors, and extract/all grain. It's weird, but I do understand your 'bitter' description. It's not a hop bitterness but it most definitely does have a bitter bite to it. One batch was a pale ale that was a bit more on the bitter side to begin with and it's almost undrinkable. I think it might be related to fermenting temps. The past few brews I've made, I've paid strong attention to the ferm temps (and kept them low) and they've all not had this flavor. Still haven't decided if this is a coincidence or not. I should try a split batch and ferment one at 60 and one at 70 and report what I notice. I might actually do that this weekend, as I have a lot of extract lying around and nothing to really do with it except make starters...
i think you are on to something. being i noob i am still working out my proceedure and these batches were fermented at the top of the temp range.....i am still mystified why some were tasting good though ???:confused:
 

RedIrocZ-28

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First things first, ferment in the mid 60's at the highest. Water bath and ice if necessary for the first 5 days.

Second, to try to reduce the oxygenation of your beers when bottling, poke the wands plunger in the bottle where the side meets the bottom, and then slowly apply pressure so you get just a trickle and minimal splashing, after a few seconds , the beer should be above the plunger and then you can jam it all the way down and fill as normal.
 
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yeasty

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First things first, ferment in the mid 60's at the highest. Water bath and ice if necessary for the first 5 days.

Second, to try to reduce the oxygenation of your beers when bottling, poke the wands plunger in the bottle where the side meets the bottom, and then slowly apply pressure so you get just a trickle and minimal splashing, after a few seconds , the beer should be above the plunger and then you can jam it all the way down and fill as normal.

i need to refine my want technique. but the question remains would that sort of oxygen exposure cause off flavors like this ? or am i looking at some other cause ??
 

Pappers_

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Doesn't sound like your beer is oxidized to me, I'd look at other causes. Cleaning and sanitizing are the most obvious first issues to cross off your list.

Jim
 

MajorTom

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Are you actually using any chemical to sanitize your bottles or just the dishwasher?
 
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yeasty

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Are you actually using any chemical to sanitize your bottles or just the dishwasher?
the last two batches i got lazy and just used the dishwasher. all the bottles were opened and consumed by me and rinsed very thoroughly before they were stored and before they went into the dishwasher. the dishwasher is very new and the sanitizer feature lasts well over an hour and the bottles come out so hot you cant touch them.

i guess this isnt enough ?
 

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You guess correctly. There's a reason why almost every thread in the Beginner Beer Brewing Forum contains the advice "sanitize thoroughly." Many people do use their dishwashers to sanitize, but if you've used Jet Dry or a similar agent in your dishwasher recently, it will leave behind a residue in your bottles. I'm also going to hope that you didn't add dishwasher soap.

We really do mean for you to sanitize thoroughly everything that comes in contact with your beer post boil. This includes bottles, caps, tubing, bottling buckets, bottling wands, everything.
 
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yeasty

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You guess correctly. There's a reason why almost every thread in the Beginner Beer Brewing Forum contains the advice "sanitize thoroughly." Many people do use their dishwashers to sanitize, but if you've used Jet Dry or a similar agent in your dishwasher recently, it will leave behind a residue in your bottles. I'm also going to hope that you didn't add dishwasher soap.

We really do mean for you to sanitize thoroughly everything that comes in contact with your beer post boil. This includes bottles, caps, tubing, bottling buckets, bottling wands, everything.
i saturate everything else in "one step" and no dishwasher soap !

see this is where i run into trouble

yeast package says 59-72 degrees is ok...NOT over 65 is ill advised !
aerate wort....NOT shake the living poop outta it !
dishwasher says it sanitizes....NOT must use chemicals !
kits are the way to go for the beginner....NOT the ingredients are not fresh !
wort chiller isnt needed....NOT you will be waiting for hours !
one week in primary.....NOT gotta wait at least 3 !
3 weeks in the bottle....NOT it will likely take much longer !
i could go on.

i have cooked all my life and i am very comfortable in a kitchen and i have learned most dishes have a wide tolerance with ingredients and such. beer brewing was explained to me as a relatively simple process. this is not true. there are a lot of subtle things you can to do make you beer inferior (notice i did not say RUINED) beer brewing is much more like baking. not very much tolerance with those recipes !

sorry, just venting frustration. i am enjoying the learning curve process but when you waste $50 in ingredients each time you learn something and still end up with no beer it kinda sucks.

im off to the distributor to buy a keg of commercial beer...that 50.00 will be in my belly soon !:drunk:

and after i lick my wounds i am going to buy a big tub to soak my bottles in and pick up a few KILOS of one step !
 

RedIrocZ-28

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Instead, buy some starsan and use that. Just 2 squirts in the bottles 5 minutes before you fill them is good enough. I usually squirt and let them sit, then dump the residual out right before I fill. I have only had 1 gusher thus far, and I can't even attribute that to anything I did, someone may have shaken that one when I wasn't looking.
 

llazy_llama

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Yeah, One-Step no longer technically qualifies as a sanitizer according to FDA guidelines. If that's not enough reason (stoopid guberment lulz!) it's liquid, and you can fill a spray bottle with it mixed with distilled water, which makes a little go a long way.

I constantly find myself telling people that kit instructions, after the part where they say "and then pitch yeast," are pretty much worthless. If I had known people were storing yeast at room temperature, maybe I'd add something about storing ingredients. I just figured storing perishable products in the fridge was something everyone was doing.

Sorry to hear you've had several bad batches already. Maybe you could post some info about your process and we can chime in with tips and tricks, or things you could be doing differently to improve your beer. Honestly, just from following the instructions I've read here and in Palmer's book, I've never had a batch that I wasn't happy with... except for 2 Mr Beer batches, but I know why those sucked.
 
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yeasty

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OK. so infection it is. i couldnt finish one last night cause it was gross. left it on the counter. today at noon it had white film on top of the beer that was left in the glass and the liquid had crud in it.....:(
 

Boar Beer

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When you attache your tube and bottling wand you may need to let the air our of the tube.

When you dont do that you may see lots of air bubbles in the line for the first 6-10 bottles.

Hook everything up normal then fill the wand with beer by drawing off 1/2 a beer. If you have bubbles in the tube lift it up as high as you can. The beer in the wand will push out the air trapped near the spigot, You will see several large bubbles come out of the bottling bucket
 

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