Bottling/Kegging/Conditioning

[schmurf]

ive been brewing for about a year now mainly british ales and american IPA. Up to now ive been bottling my beers and with various success. im on the verge of kegging and tryin to read up on things.
when i bottle it take atleast 2 weeks for the beers to be ready, that is both getting carbonated and also some time for it to mature. usually take some extra weeks for them to get to tip top shape. Now when im reading about kegging i see that people quite often force carbonate them after transfer from fermentor to make it carbonated/drinkable almost same day as kegging. what happend to conditioning?? i have a hard time imagining drinking my beers almost straight out of the fermentor. Am i missing something?? Am i making bad beers?? or is it depending on type of beers you make?

 

[doug293cz]

Forced carbonation is any method that used bottled CO2 to carbonate. The "set and forget" method takes about the same time as bottle conditioning. The quick methods are more accurately called burst carbonation, or accelerated forced carbonation. Like you, I can't see using a same day method, as I want time for whatever trub gets carried over from the fermenter to settle out. I do use an accelerated method that takes about 3 - 4 days, but the beer is usually even better after at least a week. But, for some folks speed seems to be more important that beer quality, especially if their pipeline is dry.

Brew on

 

[RM-MN]

Your beer can do a lot of maturing right in the fermenter if you give it time. After 4 weeks in the fermenter most beers would be ready to drink as soon as your keg was carbonated (some dark or high alcohol beers need more time).

 

[Kealia]

How soon the beer is ready to drink is a function of a lot of things, really. I've found over the years that the better care I take upfront, the less time conditioning I need.
For example, I control temperature, yeast pitch rates, mash ph, etc.
Most of my beers are done fermenting and ready to go in about 5 days (give or take) and I *could* keg that quickly, but it rarely fits in my schedule so they typically sit for either 1-2 weeks. But at that point, most are drinkable - albeit flat. If I wanted to burst/fast carb I could likely be drinking in just a couple of days, but I tend to like the set-and-forget method because it doesn't require me to stay on top of changing my psi, etc.

There's a ton of advice out there/here, so I'll add mine, too.
Test.

When you keg your first batch, go with the tried and true set-and-forget method because you're going to be dealing with other variables that you need to get a handle on - temp, psi, line length, taps, etc.
Introducing another variable with burst-carbing can cause frustration or be overwhelming early.

I'd get a keg or two under your belt where you are happy with the carbonation and process and then play around with burst-carbing if you so desire.

But, it's just an opinion, of course. The beauty of this hobby is that there are so many ways to skin a cat.

 

[schmurf]

Thanks guys. Some follow up Qs, if anyone would be kind to answer:

once carbonated (either "set and forget" or burst), would you leave the CO2 regulator at same pressure after this, as serving pressure? Or do you lower it?

If I have more than one keg I want to be served by the same CO2-tank and they contain different kind of beers with different volumes of CO2 (like english ale vs. wheat beer), do they need to be on different regulators with different pressure?

Does the beer/keg need to be hooked up to the line constantly even if it's not in use (for instance set aside for "maturing")?

Thanks and cheers!

 

[myndflyte]

Thanks guys. Some follow up Qs, if anyone would be kind to answer:

once carbonated (either "set and forget" or burst), would you leave the CO2 regulator at same pressure after this, as serving pressure? Or do you lower it?

If I have more than one keg I want to be served by the same CO2-tank and they contain different kind of beers with different volumes of CO2 (like english ale vs. wheat beer), do they need to be on different regulators with different pressure?

Does the beer/keg need to be hooked up to the line constantly even if it's not in use (for instance set aside for "maturing")?

Thanks and cheers!

With set and forget, you're setting it to serving pressure and just leaving it. After burst carbing, turn it back down to serving pressure and leave there.

You'll want a regulator with multiple gauges then, unless someone knows of a manifold that lets you regulate pressure?

If you are going to mature in the keg, flush it with CO2, meaning put it on gas until it stops hissing, take off of gas or turn off at the manifold, purge the keg, and repeat 4 or 5 times and then just leave the gas open until it stops making noise. This will make sure most of the oxygen is purged from the keg to prevent oxidation and the CO2 at the end will force everything to seal nicely. Then you can take it off the gas and set aside. Assuming everything is tight, you should be fine. You may just want to hook it up every 24 hours for the first few days until it stops filling because the beer will absorb some of the CO2 in there even at warm temps.

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks guys. Some follow up Qs, if anyone would be kind to answer:

once carbonated (either "set and forget" or burst), would you leave the CO2 regulator at same pressure after this, as serving pressure? Or do you lower it?

If I have more than one keg I want to be served by the same CO2-tank and they contain different kind of beers with different volumes of CO2 (like english ale vs. wheat beer), do they need to be on different regulators with different pressure?

Does the beer/keg need to be hooked up to the line constantly even if it's not in use (for instance set aside for "maturing")?

Thanks and cheers!

For "set and forget" and serving you want to use the pressure from the carbonation chart (or calculator) pressure for the beer temp and carb level you desire. These are equilibrium pressures. If you have your regulator set for higher pressure, your carbonation will increase over time. If you have your reg set for lower pressure, you will lose carbonation over time. After burst carbonating, you want to set the pressure to the chart pressure. Once you are completely carbed, and not serving, you can disconnect the keg from the gas, and it will maintain carb level (as long as the keg doesn't leak.)

If you want to serve beers at different carb levels, you need a regulator for each pressure required. Often this is done using what are known as secondary regulators.

Brew on

 

[GPP33]

Thanks guys. Some follow up Qs, if anyone would be kind to answer:

once carbonated (either "set and forget" or burst), would you leave the CO2 regulator at same pressure after this, as serving pressure? Or do you lower it?

If I have more than one keg I want to be served by the same CO2-tank and they contain different kind of beers with different volumes of CO2 (like english ale vs. wheat beer), do they need to be on different regulators with different pressure?

Does the beer/keg need to be hooked up to the line constantly even if it's not in use (for instance set aside for "maturing")?

Thanks and cheers!

some good advice already but I'll add a little.

Most beer is as good as it's gonna get while it's fresh. Aging really only improves beer if there's a flavor you want to age out or it's dark and complex.

You'll need to keep the pressure set and the gas hooked up otherwise as you draw beer out the pressure in the head space will drop and your beer will loose carbonation.

Multiple regulators are ideal but not necessary unless you really want to hit specific CO2 volumes. I currently have a Stout, Wheat and IPA all at the same pressure. Ideally they would range from about 7 to 17 psi. Multiple regulators are on my short list of upgrades (just got some b day cash!) but you can get by just fine with one. The reality is the CO2 volume of any beer changes pretty quickly once you put it in a cup.

I like the suggestion of not burst carbonating until you have a few under your belt. Learning your system will be a lot easier without the variable of over carbonated beer which is easy to do when you burst carbonate. I hit mine with 50psi for 24 hours followed by 30 psi for 24 hours followed by 12psi for serving (that'll need to change when I get multiple regulators) but different people find different pressures and times work best. I also like to let it sit for 48 hours to cold crash out all the yeast which flushes out in the first pint which gets dumped. I'd strongly suggest never doing the shake method. I tried it a couple times early on and always ended up over carbonated (glass of foam anyone?). You get to drink it a little quicker but it's not properly crashed, especially relevant if you transfer any trub. I always wonder how the guys who are drinking it the same day are getting the right temperature, you need at least a day for that to stabilize.

When you transfer to the keg, fill it with a no rinse sanitizer all the way to the brim and use CO2 pressure to empty the keg into another vessel (I use a keg dedicated to starsan). This will leave you with an oxygen free keg to begin filling with beer, do not remove the lid until the keg has been drained. To fill it, hook your transfer line up to the beer out post so you fill it from the bottom up, you'll need to either remove the pressure relief valve or hook a disconnect up to the gas post to vent it. I use fermonsters with a spigot so I run a line off of the gas post back to the fermentor for a closed O2 free transfer.

When you're balancing your system remember that longer beer lines reduce foaming. Some people get by with 5 feet, some need 15. I'm not sure why but the line length calculators you find on line didn't work for me.

Cleaning them can be a pain or really simple. I give em a quick water rinse and flush out my beer line using a little CO2 pressure. Then put in about 1 gal of PBW, shake, flush out the beer line (keep it for washing the little bits and pieces). Then do the same with some more water and disassemble to dry. Once you get the hang of it it's a pretty quick process and certainly easier than cleaning bottles.

cheers!

 

[schmurf]

Thanks guys, really appreciate the good and helpful advices!