Bottle Conditioning Dubbel

[FensterBos]

Usually I have been following my Designing Great Beers book as a guideline for my brews, but I can't find anything about Belgium Dubbels.
Anyway, I had full intentions of bottle conditioning my Dubbel, but after doing some quick research I found a lot of recommendations for cold conditioning/lagering (36 F). I used WLP500/Trappist at a 1.062 OG and expecting the abv% to be around 6 - 6.7% (I haven't measured FG yet); initial fermentation stayed around 72 F.
I don't really have the capabilities to cold condition without having to buy more gear (e.g. another keg or larger refrigerator); but I'll consider purchasing another 5-gallon keg since I can fit two in my mini-fridge.
So, my question is, will I be alright bottle conditioning around 65 to 70 F or should I purchase another keg and cold condition it at 35 F? And at that point, should I just force carb it or naturally carbonate it in bottles?
Thanks!

 

[unionrdr]

That cold conditioning is for lagers. Isn't the dubbel an ale?

 

[FensterBos]

That cold conditioning is for lagers. Isn't the dubbel an ale?

Exactly. What I've found seems to be incorrect advise.

 

[unionrdr]

Just as an example,my dark whiskely ale took 9 weeks,6 days in the bottles to condition properly. then 2 weeks fridge time for about 2 finger head & good carbonation.
My Buckeye Burton ale was higher gravity then that one,& took 5 weeks,6 days to condition. And again,needed 2 weeks fridge time for the same reasons given.
So yes,bottle conditioning is fine,but still takes some conciderable time to properly condition just the same.

 

[DSmith]

The Brewing Classic Styles Dubbel has cold conditioning in the mid 40's. The Jamil Show for Dubbels states the cold conditioning is to clear fine particles from the beer. There's no information about why the mid 40's tempeature was recommended. My guess is to prevent causing too much yeast to crash out and not carbonate well if bottled without additional yeast...

 

[unionrdr]

I usually leave the ale in primary for 3-7 days after FG is reached to let it clean up & settle out more. The beer is clear,or slightly misty at that point. Then into bottling bucket to prime & bottle. The 1st 3 to 7 days in the bottle,they settle out crystal clear. Being under some co2 pressure seems to help it settle clear faster,ime. But I use a highly flocculant yeast. That may make a difference. Albeit slight.

 

[Calder]

Cold conditioning is to help clear the beer. It is not necessary, but will help precipitate proteins (the cloudiness that appears when you cool a beer and disappears when warmed up).

 

[unionrdr]

To cut the the level of chill haze at fridge time,chill the wort down to pitch temp as quickly as possible. 20 minutes or less will take care of that. But getting the beer clear is def better for flavor,besides looks.

 

[FensterBos]

So, the next steps are:
1) rack to secondary/keg (no CO2), fridge at 40 F degrees, then bottle for conditioning?
2) rack to secondary, bottle, condition for a week or two, and then cold condition for another week or two?

Option 1) would seem to kill the yeast for bottle conditioning, so I assume option 2) is the right protocol for my Dubbel?

 

[unionrdr]

I'd skip the secondary & just let it clear in primary. Then prime & bottle. It'll need to carb/condition for 5 or 6 weeks,being a higher gravity beer. then fridge 2 weeks,as it'll take that long for decent carbonation & head.My Buckeye Burton ale went that way.

 

[BryanJ]

Ale's don't benefit from cold conditioning since the yeast will just go dormant. Although you will still have plenty of yeast to bottle condition if you just cold crash the beer. Just bottle and condition as you normally would.

 

[JLem]

There's a lot of misinformation flying around this thread - or at least a lot of uncertain information. I'm no expert, but here's my thoughts on these matters:

1) I've seen the same advice for lagering Trappist ales. Lagering is not necessarily just for lagers - you can lager any type of beer.
2) Lagering will help clarify the beer as the yeast and other particulates drop out. Again, this is regardless of the type of beer.
3) Lagering will also help clean/crisp up the flavors - again this has to do with particulates dropping out.
4) Some ales are routinely lagered - like kolsch and altbier
5) Even after lagering for a month, most beers will have plenty of yeast for bottle conditioning.

With the Trappist ales, I imagine the lagering step is useful because of the myriad of yeast-derived flavors and high alcohol content (at least with tripels and, I suppose, dubbels). Plus, many of the Trappist yeast are not very flocculant, so these beers can use a little help on the clarity end.

All that said, I am not sure if it matters if you lager then bottle or bottle then lager (once they've acheived proper carbonation of course).

 

[Calder]

Ale's don't benefit from cold conditioning since the yeast will just go dormant.

You can eliminate chill haze by cold conditioning.

 

[unionrdr]

You can eliminate waiting for chill haze to drop in the fridge if you rapidly cool the hot wort before top off/pitch. That's what I've been trying to get across.

 

[BryanJ]

1) I've seen the same advice for lagering Trappist ales. Lagering is not necessarily just for lagers - you can lager any type of beer.
3) Lagering will also help clean/crisp up the flavors - again this has to do with particulates dropping out.

I'm very curious to find out where you read this information. Other than clarifying the beer, extended time at cold temps will do nothing for the flavor profile because the yeast will go dormant and not continue to ferment like a true lager yeast would.

 

[lowtones84]

I can say from experience, not reading that ales can benefit from cold conditioning. It's not necessary by any means, but I have done 1-2 weeks in my 50F or so basement well after fermentation is complete with my last three batches. I realize 50 isn't exactly cold conditioning, but it definitely helps stuff drop out, solidifies the yeast cake and clarifies the beer. Any number of things can affect the taste of an ale, not just whether the yeast is still active or not.

Sorry this is a little off topic, to come back on, if I were doing a dubbel I would probably bulk "cold condition" the best that I could for a bit, then bottle. Just my opinion though!

 

[JLem]

I'm very curious to find out where you read this information. Other than clarifying the beer, extended time at cold temps will do nothing for the flavor profile because the yeast will go dormant and not continue to ferment like a true lager yeast would.

Here's a link to a BYO article. Not a primary source, but it talks about the benefits of lagering ales.

http://***********/stories/article/indices/41-lagering/481-cold-storage-tips-from-the-pros

 

[BryanJ]

That article seems to be lacking any real info on cold conditioning ales and it contradicts itself.

"Remember that, at cold temperatures, things happen more slowly because the yeast metabolism and chemical reactions are slowed. So, time becomes your ally."

This makes sense but then whats the point to do it? I'd need a better article to actually be convinced that lagering an ale would have noticeable impacts on the flavor profile. I've been looking but couldn't find much, do you have the primary source?

 

[sagnew440]

Read Brew Like a Monk. Some of the trappist breweries use a centrifuge or filter to get rid of the spent yeast. Those that don't will normal cold condition (or lager, pretty much the same thing) to get rid of the yeast, since most belgian beers are of higher gravity and a more stressful environment for the yeast. Most of the trappist breweries will then pitch health yeast at bottling for carbonation. And lagering does tend to smooth out the flavors in a beer. John Palmers How to Brew also has a section explaining what goes on during lagering.