bottle carbing a ale/cider blend

[GeneDaniels1963]

I want to blend a batch of flawed tasting ale (that is almost done), with a raspberry cider that I bottled several months ago. I don't think the cider was stabilized, but I am not absolutely sure.

Anyway, I want to blend the ale/cider at about a 3/1 ratio, so even if the raspberry cider was stabilized, it will be diluted significantly. Do you think I can bottle carbonate the blend if I add fresh yeast with the priming sugar?

 

[DIYer]

As long as the ale wasn't stabilized, it will still have live yeast. I don't think you would need to add more.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

the ale definatevely has not been stabilized, it is still in the secondary. But the cider for blending might have been, I just cannot remember.

 

[DIYer]

the ale definatevely has not been stabilized, it is still in the secondary. But the cider for blending might have been, I just cannot remember.

You said the cider would be only 25%... my point is, the 75% that is ale with live yeast should be enough to carb. If you add more, I think you risk over carbing (bottle bombs, gushers, etc.)

 

[AzOr]

OP- Do you mean chemically stabilized? If so, I'm not sure if the sorbate in the cider would be enough to impact the ale portion.
Maybe pitch a like yeast at bottling to ensure carbonation?

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

As for stabilized, I mean the cider MIGHT have been treated with potassium sorbate. But I just don't remember

 

[DIYer]

OP- Do you mean chemically stabilized? If so, I'm not sure if the sorbate in the cider would be enough to impact the ale portion.
Maybe pitch a like yeast at bottling to ensure carbonation?

If you think it would impact the live yeast in the ale (which I'm not whether it would or not, if the sorbate was added months ago), why wouldn't it affect any fresh yeast you pitched too?

See this article, which I think backs up my opinion that you would be fine without adding new yeast: https://blog.eckraus.com/potassium-sorbate-in-wine-making

Sorbate doesn't kill yeast, just stops them from reproducing into more yeast. The yeast that is there (in the ale) will still ferment, carbing the mix.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Just to add an FYI, last week I asked about bottle carbing a cider, one answer said add yeast, one said I don't have to. I chose to add a pomgranate juice with almost as much sugar as I want to prime with, no added yeast. Left in carboy to ferment and the yeast stressed and gave off rhino farts.
YMMV

 

[AzOr]

Truthfully I don't know, however pitching a bit of fresh yeast seems like cheap insurance to me. Bottling is a pita. Bottling a batch for a second time is a pita x 100.

 

[DIYer]

Just to add an FYI, last week I asked about bottle carbing a cider, one answer said add yeast, one said I don't have to. I chose to add a pomgranate juice with almost as much sugar as I want to prime with, no added yeast. Left in carboy to ferment and the yeast stressed and gave off rhino farts.
YMMV

Your situation was different. If I recall, your cider had been aging in a carboy for 3 months, so the most of the yeast was probably dead. No wonder it was stressed...

 

[DIYer]

Truthfully I don't know, however pitching a bit of fresh yeast seems like cheap insurance to me. Bottling is a pita. Bottling a batch for a second time is a pita x 100.

How do you determine how much yeast to add to provide the correct level of carbonation, without risking gushers or bottle bombs? I've seen calculators for priming sugar, but not for yeast.

 

[AzOr]

The bottle bombs would depend on the amount of available sugar, in this case maltose. The amount of yeast doesn’t matter.
Assuming that the cider has fermented fully (dry) the available sugars for carbonating are coming from the beer portion.
If all assumptions are correct, you would have to account for the extra volume of cider when calculating how much priming sugar to add (if you’re targeting a specific carb volume).

 

[DIYer]

The bottle bombs would depend on the amount of available sugar, in this case maltose. The amount of yeast doesn’t matter.

Sometimes the obvious slips right by you. Duh. Thanks!

 

[JimRausch]

The sorbate works by stopping yeast reproduction. I have successfully overcome sorbate and gotten complete fermentation by pitching enough yeast. Usually this is in a graf where I start the beer portion fermenting a couple days ahead of adding the sorbated cider.
So, a 25% dilution of possibly sorbated cider should be OK if you add some bottling yeast. I like CBC-1 to reyeast at bottling time. And as Azor says, the amount of yeast doesn't matter. I usually add about 1/2 tsp per 5 G batch.