Boiling hot water

[Dunkelman]

Okay, this may seem odd, but I was told not to start a boil when cooking with hot water. The reasoning is because as you run hot water through the tap the heat allows the water to pick up impurities from the plumbing. Does anyone know if this is valid, at least in terms of brewing beer? I'm doing another brew this weekend and am considering starting my boil with hot water right from the tap. My tap water is nuclear hot, and this would shorten the time by probably close to an hour.

Thanks all!

 

[Fly_Rodder]

Yes. It's not recommended to use hot water for cooking or drinking - so by the transitive property, I wouldn't use it for making beer either. The general recommendation is based on the use of lead in plumbing, so in more modern homes, it may just precautionary. However, hot water is an excellent solvent and you don't know what is in solution in your hot water heater tank or what metals are being picked up through your plumbing. Unknown metal concentrations can alter the taste and chemistry of your brew.

 

[bja]

Does anyone know if this is valid, at least in terms of brewing beer?

It's BS. If there's anything in your pipes, it would've been washed away long ago.

 

[shutupjojo]

If you could see inside your hot water tank , I guarantee you wouldn't
use that water for drinking or brewing.

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

+1 on not using it for brewing, and +1 on scary water heaters

Your water heater collects a lot of minerals. It's not going to kill you (at least not quickly), but it can certainly affect your water chemistry. Just use cold water and start a little earlier.

 

[bja]

The minerals that collect in your water heater are there because they came out of solution. Why would they dissolve back into solution?

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

The minerals that collect in your water heater are there because they came out of solution. Why would they dissolve back into solution?

They don't necessarily have to come back into solution. They can simply be knocked loose or stirred up. The water heater collects minerals on the bottom, due to sedimentation. You also have the issue of the aluminum or magnesium anode, dissolving and bonding to other minerals. This stuff usually falls to the bottom, but certainly will also make its way out the faucet. Like I said earlier, it probably won't hurt you to drink it, but it will certainly not help your water chemistry. I find it easier to brew with cold water and remove that variable.

Having said all of that, you are, of course, welcome to brew with hot water. It'll still make beer.

 

[samc]

Let a cup of the hot tap water cool and taste it. I bet most people would find it objectionable to drink compared to the cold water.

 

[markcurling]

Hm I've always used water from my hot water tap without really questioning it (beer seems to come out fine), I'll try samc's test on it tonight!

 

[kh54s10]

If the minerals are there, how did they get there? In the cold water! I totally would not worry about it unless anything you make with hot water tastes bad. Or that you know you get bad stuff in your hot water.

Has anyone made comparison water tests taking samples of both hot and cold water?

edit: I'll try that test also.

 

[Fennis]

If all those minerals are in your hot water, they are also in your cold water...its not like because your water is cold that its magically gone away. The water in your hot water tank isn't coming from some other source, if you took a shower, did laundry, or washed dishes before you got water for your beer, that is relatively fresh water coming from your hot water tank, the only difference is that its heated. Plus, you are heating the cold water to hot on your stove top or burner...isn't that what a hot water tank does? Wouldn't the minerals in your cold water just end up dissolving into the water you are heating up for your beer anyway?

Use hot or cold. I've used both and I have never had any off tastes using hot tap versus cold except about 10 minutes less time waiting for my hot tap water to get to mash temperature because I started at 120 degrees versus 60. The only difference is that I get my hot water off of my furnace instead of a electric tank. I have a very small reserve for hot water, then my furnace kicks on as fresh, cold water is coming in. Maybe that is why I notice no difference?

 

[wailingguitar]

Working at Bell's in the late 89/90, we were using a gas water heater as our hot liquor tank. ALL the brewing water came out of it. If it screwed up beer, well... Bell's wouldn't even BE today...

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

I don't mean to keep going on and on here, but I guess I will.

As for hot tap water making beer, yes it will. And it will probably make beer that tastes fine, or even delicious. However, if you're concerned about water quality or water chemistry, what comes out of your hot tap is different from what comes out of your cold tap for a few reassons:

1: Lead. You may have old pipes that will leach lead into your water at hot water temperatures. You may also have newer pipes that are lead-free, but have still, under testing, been proven to leach lead at higher temps.

2: Aluminum. We know it's not good for us and has been linking to alzheimers, among other things. Your anode in your water heater most likely contains aluminum, even if it's a magnesium anode. It dissolves and bonds to other minerals, and some of it makes it's way out of your faucet.

3. Iron. Water heaters rust. They also act as a collection point for iron in your water. This stuff gets stirred up a bit, then makes it's way out.

4. Lots of other minerals. As with Iron, things collect here, then sometimes come out in higher concentrations.

Lead and aluminum are no bueno. The other minerals will simply result in you brewing with water that's different from what you tested, or from what you drink on a regular basis.

Them's the facts. Most anyone in the know will say it's not a great idea to drink hot tap water. And lots of folks will say it ain't never hurt them none. I don't see that it's worth saving 10 minutes on a brew day.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

The ONLY reason behind not using water from a hot tank is due to the potential of the tank being "sick". Tanks "can" be harbours for anaerobic baterium if not properly maintained.

Evidenced by fouls, sulfuric, smelling water.

Otherwise, if it tastes good and smells good. Use it. the water in the hot tank is likely "cleaner" (by means of precipitate) than that of the cold side.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I don't mean to keep going on and on here, but I guess I will.

As for hot tap water making beer, yes it will. And it will probably make beer that tastes fine, or even delicious. However, if you're concerned about water quality or water chemistry, what comes out of your hot tap is different from what comes out of your cold tap for a few reassons:

1: Lead. You may have old pipes that will leach lead into your water at hot water temperatures. You may also have newer pipes that are lead-free, but have still, under testing, been proven to leach lead at higher temps.

2: Aluminum. We know it's not good for us and has been linking to alzheimers, among other things. Your anode in your water heater most likely contains aluminum, even if it's a magnesium anode. It dissolves and bonds to other minerals, and some of it makes it's way out of your faucet.

3. Iron. Water heaters rust. They also act as a collection point for iron in your water. This stuff gets stirred up a bit, then makes it's way out.

4. Lots of other minerals. As with Iron, things collect here, then sometimes come out in higher concentrations.

Lead and aluminum are no bueno. The other minerals will simply result in you brewing with water that's different from what you tested, or from what you drink on a regular basis.

Them's the facts. Most anyone in the know will say it's not a great idea to drink hot tap water. And lots of folks will say it ain't never hurt them none. I don't see that it's worth saving 10 minutes on a brew day.

1. If the lead is there it will be in both the codl and the hot. This argument is BS.

2. Aluminum has been debunked. Think of all the Aluminum products used for cooking and as drinking vessels. This argument is BS.

3. If you have rust in your hot water tank then you have much bigger issues in that the glass liner has broken. Yes. Most all hot tanks are glass lined. Your argument is ignorant on this point. (ignorant is used in the context of uninformed)

4. The minerals were in the cold water to begin with and precipitated out in the tank.


If the water in a hot tank were not potable, then tanks woiuld not carry NSF certification. THAT is a fact.

 

[deadsirios]

...I get my hot water off of my furnace instead of a electric tank. I have a very small reserve for hot water, then my furnace kicks on as fresh, cold water is coming in. Maybe that is why I notice no difference?

+1 on the "Insta-Heated" furnace water. I live in an apartment with a very small water heater in the closet, which is also used to heat the apartment. At first, I was worried about using hot water straight from the faucet, but then I figured it is coming in cold and fresh, and just getting superheated on it's way to my pot. The best part is I can actually set the hot water temp right on the thermostat, so getting 7 or 8 gallons to strike temp is virtually instantaneous... If only I could get it out of the tap faster

My perspective may change once the nano-brewery moves to a house with a tank, so I'll definitely interested to do the cooled hot water taste test, but for now, NYC water has been making great beer for over a year - starting cold or hot!

 

[kh54s10]

I don't mean to keep going on and on here, but I guess I will.

As for hot tap water making beer, yes it will. And it will probably make beer that tastes fine, or even delicious. However, if you're concerned about water quality or water chemistry, what comes out of your hot tap is different from what comes out of your cold tap for a few reassons:

1: Lead. You may have old pipes that will leach lead into your water at hot water temperatures. You may also have newer pipes that are lead-free, but have still, under testing, been proven to leach lead at higher temps.

2: Aluminum. We know it's not good for us and has been linking to alzheimers, among other things. Your anode in your water heater most likely contains aluminum, even if it's a magnesium anode. It dissolves and bonds to other minerals, and some of it makes it's way out of your faucet.

3. Iron. Water heaters rust. They also act as a collection point for iron in your water. This stuff gets stirred up a bit, then makes it's way out.

4. Lots of other minerals. As with Iron, things collect here, then sometimes come out in higher concentrations.

Lead and aluminum are no bueno. The other minerals will simply result in you brewing with water that's different from what you tested, or from what you drink on a regular basis.

Them's the facts. Most anyone in the know will say it's not a great idea to drink hot tap water. And lots of folks will say it ain't never hurt them none. I don't see that it's worth saving 10 minutes on a brew day.

IF these minerals are present, they would be in concentrations so small as to be totally insignificant.
If you notice them you have bigger problems than hot or cold water.
If you get lead from modern plumbing you have bigger problems than hot or cold water.

If this keeps you awake at night brew with cold water. Or bottled water.
I just run my HOT water through a Brita water filter with no problems. I like my beer as much as commercial products and much more than some.

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

Wow, I was just trying to get some info out there, all of which is backed by data. I'm not attacking anyone, just advocating that it's safer to use cold water to brew with.

1. If the lead is there it will be in both the codl and the hot. This argument is BS.

Hot water leaches lead from pipes, solder and other plumbing fittings. Lead solder has only been banned in the US since '86. The CDC and many other sources still say "do not drink hot tap water." http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/tips/water.htm

2. Aluminum has been debunked. Think of all the Aluminum products used for cooking and as drinking vessels. This argument is BS.

3. If you have rust in your hot water tank then you have much bigger issues in that the glass liner has broken. Yes. Most all hot tanks are glass lined. Your argument is ignorant on this point. (ignorant is used in the context of uninformed)


If the water in a hot tank were not potable, then tanks woiuld not carry NSF certification. THAT is a fact.

1. Hot water leaches lead from pipes, solder and other plumbing fittings. Lead solder has only been banned in the US since '86. The CDC and many other sources still say "do not drink hot tap water." http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/tips/water.htm

2. Debunked by whom? There's still a ton that we don't know, and lots of experts are still saying aluminum is bad for you. Use as drinking and cooking vessels, typically with a protective layer or oxide layer is very different from ingesting particles of aluminum.

3 and 4: Older water heaters are collection points for all sorts of sediment and minerals. Yes, most of it was already in your water. But it collects there and can be released in differing amounts. The water is also being chemically changed by the anode.

Potable, yes. Good for brewing, maybe, maybe not. Potentially carrying lead, yes.

 

[bja]

Wow, I was just trying to get some info out there,

All you're doing is spreading BS.

 

[the_mox]

I've always used hot water in brewing...takes lest time to heat up my strike water and what not. just try it, see what happens...I haven't noticed a difference, but you might.

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

All you're doing is spreading BS.

I stand by what I've said, as do sources like the CDC. Having said that, I'm done with the debate. Time to spend time brewing rather than wasting it talking to myself. Happy brewing!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Wow, I was just trying to get some info out there, all of which is backed by data. I'm not attacking anyone, just advocating that it's safer to use cold water to brew with.

NSF takes the leaching of compounds VERY seriously and has strict maximum permitted guidelines that MUST be adhered to through the LIFE of a product carrying their certification.

Those are the facts. You want to spread REAL information about the safety of plumbing systems, read the NSF guidelines for certification of a water heater.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Additionally, as for the magnesium anode being a potential negative, electric brewers on here are using them to prevent rusting on their heating elements. One user, after concerns were raised similar to yours, sent in a two water tests to Ward Labs- one sample of water without using the anode, and one using the anode. The tests came back statistically insignificant for any changes in chemical content.

 

[dallasdb]

I'm not saying it isn't true but I have used hot water from day 1 and have never had an issue.

Some people obsess over the little things. If I was pro or doing competitions, maybe I'd consider not using hot water.

But for me, I don't care and it has always resulted in GREAT BEER.

RDWHAHB

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

Alright, I'm going to chime back in briefly just to clarify why I say I don't think it's a great idea.

As I've said repeatedly, you certainly CAN brew with hot tap water. It'll make good beer. But the possible health implications are easily avoided by using cold water

Also, some people really geek out on water chemistry. It certainly has the possibility of screwing with that.

For me, the main reason I suggest not using it is a "do as I say, not as I do" reason. While I'm sure I've brewed with hot tap water, I can't see advocating it to a new brewer.

And while my posts may have somehow been viewed as inflammatory, they certainly weren't meant to be so. I just wanted to try to provide some info to back up my take on the subject.

I don't advocate it, and many authorities would suggest against it. Many brewers have had no problems. Now it's time to make a personal, informed decision.

And yes, please RDWHAHB.

 

[Dunkelman]

Thanks all, there are some strong opinions on both sides, and I respect everyone for their strong convictions on both sides of the issue. With respect to what everyone has said, I plan on trying the hot tap water scenario this weekend.

 

[Jtc2811]

I would definitely taste the hot tap water first. Nowadays I have no problem with hot or cold, but last year I was In a crappy apartment with old pipes, and the hot water often started brown out if the faucet. Needless to say I bought bottled water to brew there. My point is, different places means different pipes and junk in them

 

[BamaRooster]

My house was built in 1951, has old as hell plumbing and there is no way I am using that water, cold or hot, unfiltered. But that is just my situation. If I had newer plumbing and an inline water heater, I would at least try it once, and if it worked out I would do it some more. Every brewer has a unique situation in their little brewing world and part of the trick and fun, is finding out what works best for your personal situation.

I did find this on the CDC's website...intresting, look at the first item listed to find emergency water in your home, and notice they refer to it as "clean".......but I don't think I am going to these sources for water to brew beer.

From CDC Website:

Finding Emergency Water Sources

Alternative sources of clean water can be found inside and outside the home. DO NOT DRINK water that has an unusual odor or color, or that you know or suspect might be contaminated with fuel or toxic chemicals; use a different source of water.

The following are possible sources of water:

Inside the Home

Water from your home’s water heater tank
Melted ice cubes made with water that was not contaminated
Water from your home’s toilet tank (not from the bowl), if it is clear and has not been chemically treated with toilet cleaners such as those that change the color of the water
Liquid from canned fruit and vegetables

source: http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/emergency/safe_water/personal.html