boiling beer after yeast is pitched?

[seraphorist]

what would this do? say i wanted to make a super thick rich beer, but not go crazy on the abv. could i brew a big beer, and before bottling split it and boil/simmer off the alcohol (and much volume) from part of the batch then blend them back together? would this just give me super nast flavors? just an idea, i'm a curious brewer.

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

Why pitch yeast at all then?

 

[seraphorist]

Why pitch yeast at all then?

i would split the batch before the re-boil part, so half the beer would still be healthy live fermenting beer. i've got to have something to bottle condition with also. i'm trying to keep the alcohol from being ridiculously too high is my main reason for this.

 

[MikeYoung]

I think that's allowed only if you bottle the condensate and ship to me for disposal.

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

Well the healthy yeast will then take over for the yeast you killed and instead of going to sleep they will continue to eat sugars and since they are strained they will produce off flavours. I am still unsure of exactly what you want to do and why? So you want a low abv big beer? I don't think that is possible without force carbonating. The remaining yeast will keep eating sugars if there are sugars.

 

[JLem]

Why not just make a low gravity beer? I'm not sure I understand what would be gained from brewing a high gravity beer and then boiling off the alcohol.

 

[pigdog]

Maybe just drink a little less?

 

[eastoak]

you can brew whatever ABV you want from the start, you could brew a high ABV and a low ABV with the second runnings.

 

[Ryush806]

I THINK I understand what you're wanting to do here but let me make sure.

Are you wanting to fully ferment a "big beer" and then boil part of it to remove the alcohol and then blend the two back together?

There wouldn't be anything necessarily wrong (in terms of bottle bombs etc) with this as the yeast would have eaten all the sugar they are going to eat. The problem I think you're going to run into is that all your hop flavor and aroma will be driven off by the boil. Possibly a lot of your ester flavor compounds as well. You may very well end up with a semi-sweet semi-flavored fluid with lots of body. Depending on the amount you took out to boil and the intensity of the flavors in the main batch it might turn out ok. It might also turn out tasting really odd.

I'm assuming you're doing extract brews judging from your join date (please correct me if I'm wrong). There are lots of things you could do with steeping specialty grains and addtives (like maltodextrin) in terms of adjusting the flavors and body (I'm assuming this is what you meant when you say "thick" and "rich). I would try to go this route instead. There's plenty of information on this forum covering specialty grains and additives. Do some research and see if you can find some ideas to help you with what you're after.

[EDIT] You could also brew a style like a dark mild. It's got lots of flavor but less alcohol. One of my favorite brews I've done recently has been a dark mild.

 

[ChshreCat]

It sounds like you're assuming that a "thick and rich" beer is going to be high abv. You can brew something like that that's low abv to start with.

 

[dwarven_stout]

It sounds like you're assuming that a "thick and rich" beer is going to be high abv. You can brew something like that that's low abv to start with.

This.

Also, simply boiling beer will drive off alcohol and water at similar rates. Even food cooked with alcohol still has alcohol in it after cooking.

 

[seraphorist]

Are you wanting to fully ferment a "big beer" and then boil part of it to remove the alcohol and then blend the two back together?

right on.

There wouldn't be anything necessarily wrong (in terms of bottle bombs etc) with this as the yeast would have eaten all the sugar they are going to eat. The problem I think you're going to run into is that all your hop flavor and aroma will be driven off by the boil. Possibly a lot of your ester flavor compounds as well. You may very well end up with a semi-sweet semi-flavored fluid with lots of body. Depending on the amount you took out to boil and the intensity of the flavors in the main batch it might turn out ok. It might also turn out tasting really odd.

this is really the only answer i was looking for. off flavors. thank you.

I'm assuming you're doing extract brews judging from your join date (please correct me if I'm wrong). There are lots of things you could do with steeping specialty grains and addtives (like maltodextrin) in terms of adjusting the flavors and body (I'm assuming this is what you meant when you say "thick" and "rich).

i am a partial extract brewer. i have done all of the mentioned and i do like the results, but in this case "thick" means higher viscosity. i was thinking i could get enough fluids (water and alcohol) out of half the batch to actually change the consistency of the beer. beer concentrate if you will. then blend back with the original beer to make something truly "thick and (hopefully) rich." not so sure about the richness now that you say that hop and ester stuff.

 

[Ryush806]

i am a partial extract brewer. i have done all of the mentioned and i do like the results, but in this case "thick" means higher viscosity. i was thinking i could get enough fluids (water and alcohol) out of half the batch to actually change the consistency of the beer. beer concentrate if you will. then blend back with the original beer to make something truly "thick and (hopefully) rich." not so sure about the richness now that you say that hop and ester stuff.

If you're doing partial mashes you could also mash up towards 158 F to get more body. This would also help keep the abv low because your wort wouldn't be as fermentable. You would also end up with a sweeter finish to your beer which you may or may not want.

 

[martinworswick]

This.

Also, simply boiling beer will drive off alcohol and water at similar rates. Even food cooked with alcohol still has alcohol in it after cooking.

i thought alcohol boiled off at 78oC against 100oC for water,would the alcohol not boil off well before the water if you kept the temperature between the boiling points?

 

[MikeYoung]

i thought alcohol boiled off at 78oC against 100oC for water,would the alcohol not boil off well before the water if you kept the temperature between the boiling points?

I'm guessing some trace amount of alcohol remains behind no matter how long the boil, possibly related to partial pressures or such. Somebody somewhere can probably calculate that amount precisely. I doubt we can measure it with a hydrometer. And therein is the question: Is it real if you can't measure it?

Here's a link to a summary of fractional distillation, addressing the other end: http://www.ucc.ie/academic/chem/dolchem/html/comp/ethanol.html. In short, fractional distillation produces at best 95% pure alcohol, with 5% water.

 

[seraphorist]

If you're doing partial mashes you could also mash up towards 158 F to get more body. This would also help keep the abv low because your wort wouldn't be as fermentable. You would also end up with a sweeter finish to your beer which you may or may not want.

nice, i like when people lay the technical stuff out there in a super simple manner. i never thought of that. thank you. so what exactly happens when you exceed the 160ºF mark? are you just making none of the sugars fermentable, or are you producing undesirable flavors at that point?

 

[seraphorist]

The problem I think you're going to run into is that all your hop flavor and aroma will be driven off by the boil. Possibly a lot of your ester flavor compounds as well. You may very well end up with a semi-sweet semi-flavored fluid with lots of body.

so... maybe if i brewed two separate half batches; one without hop to boil to sludge later, and then another that is too overly hopped and too estery. then when i blend them into a full batch (after the second boil of the one) they could even each other out. possibly. maybe also through in some dry hopping after the blend. why not?

 

[logdrum]

Why not just add extract? (or just drink the extract if you want really thick & rich)

-d