Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[Bobby_M]

Did you have a patent?

Of course not. Patents for small items like that, for limited niche markets like this, are not practical.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Of course not. Patents for small items like that, for limited niche markets like this, are not practical.

Sorry bout that Bobby

 

[RufusBrewer]

Oh nice! Another Chinese company exactly cloning my fitting design.

Some of us recognize the long term value of buying local over saving a few bucks today. You: customer service, tech support, products of reliable quality, innovation and solutions unique to my hobby. Alibaba? Nope.

I have tried doing things on the cheap and regretted it enough times, it is not worth it in the long run.

Do it right the first time. Then get to brewing beer.

 

[AntoineLeclair]

Yeah, guess where SS got that design. They straight up cloned mine.

Yeah that sucks. Sorry to hear that.

Alibaba? Nope.

Unfortunately, for people outside the US, sometimes it's the only option that's available. Or sometimes, the only option that makes sense.

For example, the the spray nozzle that McMaster won't ship outside of the US.

Something that I see a lot is an item that costs $30 (USD) or less, that ships for free within the US. Trying to ship this to Canada gives like $30 shipping, plus $30-40 in broker fees to clear customs (charged by Fedex, UPS, etc.), plus the custom fees, etc. That $30 item ends up costing $150. While there's the same item, often made by the same manufacturer in China, that sells for $20 + free shipping and no custom fees. $150 vs $20 for the same item. Also, the shipping time from the US to Canada is not always super fast. I can imagine how it's only getting worst for people living on other continents.

I buy as much as I can from the my local homebrew store, even when it would be easier, faster and cheaper to buy online. But living outside of the US sometimes makes things complicated.

 

[Frudel]

We have the same here in germany , shipment is more the the costs of the items .
I guess most of the stainless steal items that are sold in germany for the double price
come from china .
I dont see a difference in tri clamp or stainless steal parts bought from germany , uk or china.

 

[Charlie139]

Here’s a made in China clone but it ain’t for sale from my little brewery. No local brew shops around these parts

 

[cincypilot]

Yeah, guess where SS got that design. They straight up cloned mine.

Stole is the correct term...cloned is pc for stole!

 

[BigJay13]

I drilled a hole in the lid and installed a weldless triclamp ferrule.

View attachment 707697

Can I ask why you added the additional straight tube below the t? I was planning on doing the same design with just a T and the elbow.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I have a 27 gal kettle with a slightly curved lid. I purchased the 1.5 inch kit from Brewhardware with the 9 gal/hr nozzle and it works great. I would assume that bobby's 2 inch kit would work fine for your 200 ltr (52 gal) kettle. I wouldn't be surprised if the 1.5 inch wouldn't do the job. I get no DMS in my finished beers even my lighter lagers.
Prost

I misphrased the above statement. "I would be surprised if the 1.5 inch wouldn't do the job".
I use 1.5 inch and it works great.

 

[mgalbus]

So I spent the last day or so reading all of the threads regarding condensing the steam from the boil.

There were a couple threads discussing where a condenser could be used to cool the vapors. I found this video about doing so:
Counterflow Chiller Steam Condenser

Has anyone tried this approach?

One concern that I would have is the back pressure and thus cause the kettle lid to pop up to relieve the pressure.

Or if the lid doesn’t lift the volatiles aren’t removed properly.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

So I spent the last day or so reading all of the threads regarding condensing the steam from the boil.

There were a couple threads discussing where a condenser could be used to cool the vapors. I found this video about doing so:
Counterflow Chiller Steam Condenser

Has anyone tried this approach?

One concern that I would have is the back pressure and thus cause the kettle lid to pop up to relieve the pressure.

Or if the lid doesn’t lift the volatiles aren’t removed properly.

I watched the video and it seems to work very well. I like the idea of saving water. I don't see a problem with back pressure and the evaporation rate aligns with the steam slayer. I think there is room for improvement on the cooling water side. Looks good. However, the equipment cost is significantly higher than the steam slayer but the plate chiller does perform duel functions.

 

[Bryce Brewer]

Hello Everyone,

I've been working on planning my electric brewery design and know that I want to go the Steam Condenser route seeing as I will be brewing in the basement and will be moving in the next couple years so I don't want to make any modifications to the house, especially if I can't bring it with me.

I came across this video and wanted to know everyone's thoughts? I like the idea of not having to add another fitting if I don't have to, being able to repurpose a plate chiller, not needing to use as much water/having to run around with 5 gallon buckets.

I'm an engineer but not in this specialty so my thoughts are that if steam isn't escaping elsewhere and it is all going through the plate chiller and condensing and dripping out (and not somehow dripping back into the kettle), then all the DMS should be captured so it should work effectively. I would definitely make sure to run some water through before sanitizing with wort so that any DMS saturated water would be flushed before proceeding with chilling.

https://brausupply.com/blogs/news/make-a-steam-condenser-out-of-a-counterflow-chiller

On a more standard note, my brewery plan is for 2 X 20 BIAB that will be able to run both elements at once using a home grown HMI/PLC to control both elements. My original idea would be to connect the headspace of the two pots with 1.5" TCs at 3:00 on the left kettle and 9:00 on the right using an instrument tee and spools. I would then use the large Steam Slayer from BrewHardware with the 18GPH (or 9 GPH if sufficient after testing or if running smaller batches) sprayer to ensure I had enough flow for 2 X 10 Gallon batches should I choose to use that much.

Does this seem reasonable or are there any concerns that you guys have?

Thanks for bearing with me if you got this far!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Hello Everyone,

I've been working on planning my electric brewery design and know that I want to go the Steam Condenser route seeing as I will be brewing in the basement and will be moving in the next couple years so I don't want to make any modifications to the house, especially if I can't bring it with me.

I came across this video and wanted to know everyone's thoughts? I like the idea of not having to add another fitting if I don't have to, being able to repurpose a plate chiller, not needing to use as much water/having to run around with 5 gallon buckets.

I'm an engineer but not in this specialty so my thoughts are that if steam isn't escaping elsewhere and it is all going through the plate chiller and condensing and dripping out (and not somehow dripping back into the kettle), then all the DMS should be captured so it should work effectively. I would definitely make sure to run some water through before sanitizing with wort so that any DMS saturated water would be flushed before proceeding with chilling.

https://brausupply.com/blogs/news/make-a-steam-condenser-out-of-a-counterflow-chiller

On a more standard note, my brewery plan is for 2 X 20 BIAB that will be able to run both elements at once using a home grown HMI/PLC to control both elements. It will be a standard 30A, 240V circuit so I will utilize 2 of Bobby's 3500W elements so that I can simultaneously use both and be just under the 30A rating (all pumps and controls will be off a separate 120V supply). My original idea would be to connect the headspace of the two pots with 1.5" TCs at 3:00 on the left kettle and 9:00 on the right using an instrument tee and spools. I would then use the large Steam Slayer from BrewHardware with the 18GPH (or 9 GPH if sufficient after testing or if running smaller batches) sprayer to ensure I had enough flow for 2 X 10 Gallon batches should I choose to use that much.

Does this seem reasonable or are there any concerns that you guys have?

Thanks for bearing with me if you got this far!

You are really pushing the current limit. Each element running at 100% duty cycle will draw 14.17 amps for a total 29.2 amps. This only leaves you 800mA until the breaker trips. This will also wear out the breaker. You should look at no more than 70% of the breakers rating. One small surge and the circuit breaker trips and you have to jump up and reset it. I would design for supporting a 240 vac circuit with a 40 amp GFCI breaker. I don't know how long the runs are but pay attention to the wire gauge, say 10 awg for the 240 circuit. Hope this helps.

 

[Bryce Brewer]

Thanks for the feedback Brewbuzzard. Maybe I’ll find something slightly smaller and run a 120V hot rod element to boost them if needed. I’ll edit that out of my original post so as not to distract from the purpose of this thread.

 

[z987k]

So given that the boil off rate will be lower, by say half, and you will have to reduce mash or sparge volumes to hit your targets, the efficiency of rinsing the sugars from the mash will be rather reduced and the concentration of wort will be reduced, what are people seeing for reduction in brewhouse efficiency?

I brew mostly large beers - 1.070+ on ebiab setup(10.5 anvil) so my mash volume is already limiting and having to add more grain to make up isn't much of an option. I already do reitterated mashes for some beers and need maximum boil off for that to work in a remotely reasonable amount of time.

 

[Spartan1979]

So given that the boil off rate will be lower, by say half, and you will have to reduce mash or sparge volumes to hit your targets, the efficiency of rinsing the sugars from the mash will be rather reduced and the concentration of wort will be reduced, what are people seeing for reduction in brewhouse efficiency?

I brew mostly large beers - 1.070+ on ebiab setup(10.5 anvil) so my mash volume is already limiting and having to add more grain to make up isn't much of an option. I already do reitterated mashes for some beers and need maximum boil off for that to work in a remotely reasonable amount of time.

For beers in the 1.045- 1.060 range, I haven't seen much change in my efficiency. But I am seeing it in my bigger beers and have had to add more grain. But for me, bigger beers are in the 1.070 -1.080 range.

If you don't want to add more grain, you could always boil longer.

 

[BrunDog]

Condenser helps manage boil-off, but if you really want to boil off more liquid, a small air injection into the kettle would help.

 

[bleme]

Condenser helps manage boil-off, but if you really want to boil off more liquid, a small air injection into the kettle would help.

So something like an aquarium air pump in and just a copper coil out? Skip the mister?

 

[BrunDog]

I've never tested this - just a theory. Maybe an aquarium air pump would be enough. You don't change the condenser as you still need it to condense the steam. The additional air will give some room to absorb steam vapor. Not sure what would happen in the condenser due to the additional pressure though.

 

[WesBrew]

the one I built has worked great. I'm using a brass spray nozzle 9gph from mcmaster, with I think a 70deg spray cone. is there a source for a stainless steel version? the nozzle isn't looking so nice

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I've never tested this - just a theory. Maybe an aquarium air pump would be enough. You don't change the condenser as you still need it to condense the steam. The additional air will give some room to absorb steam vapor. Not sure what would happen in the condenser due to the additional pressure though.

Actually it seems the small amount of pressure would just be sucked out by the vacuum created by the condenser and like you state increase boil off.

 

[BigJay13]

Does the spray nozzle need to be even with the pipe containing the steam? I have a pipe from a rims tube that I wanted to use but the nipple I’m using to connect the water input to the nozzle places the nozzle an inch or so below the opening to the steam pipe.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Does the spray nozzle need to be even with the pipe containing the steam? I have a pipe from a rims tube that I wanted to use but the nipple I’m using to connect the water input to the nozzle places the nozzle an inch or so below the opening to the steam pipe.

This question is better answered by Bobby but I think the nozzle should be placed just below the pipe exiting the kettle.

 

[BrunDog]

The spray only needs not to make its way back into the kettle. Ideally, it is as close to the incoming steam as possible, but I think there is plenty of wiggle room.

 

[BigJay13]

The spray only needs not to make its way back into the kettle. Ideally, it is as close to the incoming steam as possible, but I think there is plenty of wiggle room.

I’m a good inch below the steam pipe—I’ll put it together and try it out once I get my plumbing in. Worst case is I buy the right parts.

 

[Jethro Choicebro]

Hey @Bobby_M Just wondering if there is any ETA on the Steam Slayer stock?
Would prefer not to go with the wide body if dont need to.

Many Thanks!

 

[jdudek]

Hey @Bobby_M Just wondering if there is any ETA on the Steam Slayer stock?
Would prefer not to go with the wide body if dont need to.

Many Thanks!

same here... I've got a cart full of stuff sitting idle for a month waiting for the steam slayer...

 

[Bobby_M]

Last I heard it's about a week out.

 

[jdudek]

I put together a steam condenser from parts, more or less as suggested at the beginning of this thread by brundog.

details:

9GPH sprayer (at 40 PSI), the well pump is set to 60 PSI, not sure what it is at the washer outlet, but must be at least 40 PSI I would think.
Sprayer tip is below the inlet hole.
Water temp is around 50F.
I used an instrument T (1.5") from brewhardware for the "chamber".
I am testing with 4 gallons of water in a 11 gallon kettle (so considerable amount of empty space)

Maybe this is a silly question but how do I know this is working properly. I don't see steam coming out anywhere. When the water is off to the sprayer, I see a bit of steam coming out the bottom of the condenser chamber (I removed the runoff barb/hose for now, it's just coming out of the 1.5" Tee bottom)

The main thing that's making me suspicious is that the runoff from the condenser is not very hot. Lukewarm.. 90-100F. I seem to remember reading online about runoff temps around 150 or more...

appreciate any thoughts, feedback.

thanks

 

[Spartan1979]

I put together a steam condenser from parts, more or less as suggested at the beginning of this thread by brundog.

details:

9GPH sprayer (at 40 PSI), the well pump is set to 60 PSI, not sure what it is at the washer outlet, but must be at least 40 PSI I would think.
Sprayer tip is below the inlet hole.
Water temp is around 50F.
I used an instrument T (1.5") from brewhardware for the "chamber".
I am testing with 4 gallons of water in a 11 gallon kettle (so considerable amount of empty space)

Maybe this is a silly question but how do I know this is working properly. I don't see steam coming out anywhere. When the water is off to the sprayer, I see a bit of steam coming out the bottom of the condenser chamber (I removed the runoff barb/hose for now, it's just coming out of the 1.5" Tee bottom)

The main thing that's making me suspicious is that the runoff from the condenser is not very hot. Lukewarm.. 90-100F. I seem to remember reading online about runoff temps around 150 or more...

appreciate any thoughts, feedback.

thanks

If your wastewater is around 100 and your water temperature is 50, that heat has to be coming from somewhere, right?

My wastewater temp isn't much higher than yours, but that's fine with me. Water conservation isn't a big issue here and the cost of the water is less than a quarter per batch. I figure I'm actually using about 16 gph with the 9 gph nozzle, so I would expect the temp to be something less than what others might be getting. If you were using a 6 gph nozzle, you would see a higher temp in the wastewater.