Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[TxBigHops]

I was honestly not too happy with the hop utilization from the nylon mesh basket I first used, then I went to a hop spider thinking the extra space would be nice, then now finally to the SS Mesh Hop spider....I'm still not too happy with it. So, I have been considering going to one of the BIAB baskets Utah Biodiesel sells. Then, the hops could do whatever they wanted during the boil. My other thought was doing a whirlpool, during flame out since I'm planning to get a pump.

I would be much more happy to deal with hop trub, then having to cut in hole in my perfectly good wall(with brand new exterior siding) for a vent. Plus, I live in a somewhat rural community, and the more holes in my exterior, the more likely I find intruders.

Are you referring to using a basket as large as the entire diameter of your kettle? I too was thinking of doing that a couple of years ago, but have been told by many experts that the wort inside a basket like that will never boil. I don't completely understand the science, but this came from people in the industry that I trust.

 

[TexasWine]

I absolutely love this idea and am glad that I stumbled upon it before buying a vent hood and fan for my garage brewery.

I'm not sure if this has been asked already (since we're at 23 pages so far and I don't have time to read them all at the moment), but why can't we achieve the same thing with a large coil of copper tubing, like an old immersion chiller, which is sitting on top of a box fan or some other air powered cooling source?

My guess, you'd never be able to condense all the steam because you couldn't transfer enough BTUs given the limitations on heat transfer (air on outside, slow moving steam on the inside that's probably in the laminar flow regime). Now if you had something more like a radiator with finned tubing, you might be on to something.

I could see other questions around how to support a large copper coil off the side of the kettle.

 

[Gameface]

I brewed with my steam slayer over the weekend. Worked very well!

In fact, it worked too well in that I could maintain a vigorous boil at 50% power (PID in manual mode) and I was a bit slow to go that low. But I didn't even have a real boil-over, the steam slayer sucked everything out. Bottom of the lid had a nice layer of hops on it after the brew and I'm guessing I didn't get the hop utilization I was expecting with all the hops left on the walls of the kettle and the lid, but this is a Scottish Export Ale and my IBUs were on the high side in the recipe so I'm sure it'll be fine.

 

[mongoose33]

I brewed with my steam slayer over the weekend. Worked very well!

In fact, it worked too well in that I could maintain a vigorous boil at 50% power (PID in manual mode) and I was a bit slow to go that low. But I didn't even have a real boil-over, the steam slayer sucked everything out. Bottom of the lid had a nice layer of hops on it after the brew and I'm guessing I didn't get the hop utilization I was expecting with all the hops left on the walls of the kettle and the lid, but this is a Scottish Export Ale and my IBUs were on the high side in the recipe so I'm sure it'll be fine.

Don't feel like you're the first brewer to which this has happened.

But yeah, it sure works, and works well.

 

[day_trippr]

That looks...interesting....but I can't see how it would work in a kettle with an electric heating element. [...]Am I missing something with how it's used?

The link was to a lengthy web page that has a bunch of pics showing the standard V2 Stopper under a ULD ripple element.
Like this:

So I guess it depends on high up the element is mounted...

Cheers!

 

[schematix]

Filtering hops is a losing battle.

I’m still waiting for the first home brew scale centrifuge....

 

[Black_Z28]

Are you referring to using a basket as large as the entire diameter of your kettle? I too was thinking of doing that a couple of years ago, but have been told by many experts that the wort inside a basket like that will never boil. I don't completely understand the science, but this came from people in the industry that I trust.

Very interesting. It also doesn't make sense to me that it wouldn't boil. I guess is it because of how fine the SS mesh is on the basket? Because every dude in the south boiling crayfish would have a problem with their basket with this theory.

I guess I could ask the Utah BioDiesel guys if they've boiled with their basket in the kettle.

 

[TxBigHops]

Very interesting. It also doesn't make sense to me that it wouldn't boil. I guess is it because of how fine the SS mesh is on the basket? Because every dude in the south boiling crayfish would have a problem with their basket with this theory.

I guess I could ask the Utah BioDiesel guys if they've boiled with their basket in the kettle.

I'm one of those dudes in the south! Those crawfish baskets have large holes punched in them. But like I said, I don't completely understand the science. I recall it does have something to do with the bubbles produced by boiling. Just trying to give you fair warning to do your research before investing in one of those baskets.

 

[VWBug5000]

I could see other questions around how to support a large copper coil off the side of the kettle.

The coil wouldn't need to be supported if the coil input was long enough. I'm just trying to avoid the requirement for running water. Don't get me wrong, I'd use the excess water to clean up afterwards. It is just that extra bit of plumbing complexity being added to an already complex process. Whenever I describe how my brewery works to the non-initiated, their eyes will always glaze over about halfway through

 

[ancientmariner52]

I'm one of those dudes in the south! Those crawfish baskets have large holes punched in them. But like I said, I don't completely understand the science. I recall it does have something to do with the bubbles produced by boiling. Just trying to give you fair warning to do your research before investing in one of those baskets.

I'm thinking that circulation of the boiling water would be the issue. Large holes, say 1/4" or bigger, will allow heated water to rise, so that colder, denser, water can reach the heating surface. A solid or fine mesh bottom basket, not so much. In the worst case, a steam bubble forms and the basket hops up and down, and the wort is scorched, on account of lack of circulation.

 

[mongoose33]

The coil wouldn't need to be supported if the coil input was long enough. I'm just trying to avoid the requirement for running water. Don't get me wrong, I'd use the excess water to clean up afterwards. It is just that extra bit of plumbing complexity being added to an already complex process. Whenever I describe how my brewery works to the non-initiated, their eyes will always glaze over about halfway through

Do you have a faucet nearby? You may be able to use a garden-hose adapter on that faucet to provide the water. If it's not close enough, a garden hose could move that water to where your brew area is.

I had a sillcock installed under my sink to feed my RO filter; when I realized I needed to draw off water also for the steam catcher, I put a splitter on it that allows me to control two different water streams.

Just a couple ideas....

 

[VWBug5000]

Do you have a faucet nearby? You may be able to use a garden-hose adapter on that faucet to provide the water. If it's not close enough, a garden hose could move that water to where your brew area is.

The closest faucet is in the laundry room inside the house, however I'm planning to eventually move/upgrade that sink into the garage on the opposite side of the same wall, but that is going to take quite some time to manage. The only other option is the garden hose, which is on the opposite side of the furthest wall away from my BK in my 3 car garage. Neither option is very convenient. In an effort to keep everything as elegant as possible, I may have to just suffer through having the garage doors open while brewing until I can find a better option for a water source. I live in the Las Vegas area and it is either too cold or too hot for that to be comfortable. Spring and Fall are only a few weeks long each.

 

[Black_Z28]

I'm one of those dudes in the south! Those crawfish baskets have large holes punched in them. But like I said, I don't completely understand the science. I recall it does have something to do with the bubbles produced by boiling. Just trying to give you fair warning to do your research before investing in one of those baskets.

The name is a dead give-away but so is it being a crawfish as well.

Yeah, I thought about the size of the holes being the issue. I contacted Arborfab, we'll see what they say.

Worst case scenario is I do a whirlpool. I appreciate your heads up on this idea.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I'm thinking that circulation of the boiling water would be the issue. Large holes, say 1/4" or bigger, will allow heated water to rise, so that colder, denser, water can reach the heating surface. A solid or fine mesh bottom basket, not so much. In the worst case, a steam bubble forms and the basket hops up and down, and the wort is scorched, on account of lack of circulation.

I've used my ArborFab mash basket as a hop filter during the boil. The thumping under the basket is irritating, the liquid in the basket does ultimately boil but not rigorously, and the whole screen tends to plug up with break material.

For me it wasn't worth the hassle, I just let the hops float free.

 

[Black_Z28]

What are you guys using as a "seal" between the kettle cover and kettle? Or is the vacuum strong enough that one isn't needed?

 

[rkhanso]

I find that just the moisture created makes a decent seal. I don't use anything other than just the kettle and the lid.
I can't help but test it once in a while and take the lid off and put it back on. Within seconds, the steam stops coming out around the lid and it's sealed up again. Well, maybe not "officially" sealed, but sealed enough to not get any steam escaping.

The only place I now get steam is in the waste water bucket....but it's much less than there would be coming directly from the boiling wort in the kettle.

 

[Juuso]

What are you guys using as a "seal" between the kettle cover and kettle? Or is the vacuum strong enough that one isn't needed?

I use silicon gasket on lid an it creates good suction that keeps lid on place and steam doesn't come trough. It is almost hard to know when its boiling. I know when boiling is hard when the pot starts to shake little bit.

 

[specialkayme]

I turn the condenser off, put the lid on, and crank the heating element all the way up. I then grab (usually another) beer, sit on the couch and watch a show. When I hear the lid rattling (sound almost like rattling teeth when someone gets cold), I turn the condenser on and the heating element down. No seal necessary. Once the condenser turns on steam stops coming from the seam (provided I turn the heating element down).

 

[ingchr1]

What are you guys using as a "seal" between the kettle cover and kettle? Or is the vacuum strong enough that one isn't needed?

I use nothing, no steam escapes.

 

[mongoose33]

What are you guys using as a "seal" between the kettle cover and kettle? Or is the vacuum strong enough that one isn't needed?

No gasket--there's enough of a "vacuum" draw that nothing escapes. So when I say "seal" I'm using the term loosely.

 

[Gameface]

Yeah, it doesn't need to be sealed. The weight of the lid already makes the steam condenser an easier escape route for the steam, and when it gets there it gets condensed and starts pulling. Even if air is coming IN around the lid it doesn't matter. The steam condenser is the best way out of the kettle.

 

[butterblum]

What kind of boil-off rates are people typically seeing with this thing? FWIW, I just started using the Steam Slayer from Bobby at Brew Hardware. I believe I have the 9gph nozzle, but I throttle the flow rate way back because of the water pressure I am seeing.

 

[mongoose33]

What kind of boil-off rates are people typically seeing with this thing? FWIW, I just started using the Steam Slayer from Bobby at Brew Hardware. I believe I have the 9gph nozzle, but I throttle the flow rate way back because of the water pressure I am seeing.

I used to do about a gallon per hour boiloff rate, but with dropping down the power to where I'm getting more of a simmer, I'm at about 1/2 gallon per hour.

It's forced me to rethink recipe a bit, as the reduced boiloff is resulting in a lower OG than I'd typically expect.

 

[BrunDog]

You shouldn’t throttle the inflow as it will create an unknown pressure drop. If you need to reduce pressure, use a water pressure regulator, otherwise if you have high pressure, you are better dropping to the smaller spray nozzle.

I personally get boil-off rate of about 1/2 - 2/3 gallons per hour on a 5 gallon batch (so maybe about 6.5 gallons per-boil).

 

[mikehoover]

What kind of boil-off rates are people typically seeing with this thing? FWIW, I just started using the Steam Slayer from Bobby at Brew Hardware. I believe I have the 9gph nozzle, but I throttle the flow rate way back because of the water pressure I am seeing.

I'm getting about 2 gallons over a 90-minute boil. I run the condenser wide open at about 100 psi (until one of my kids flushes the toilet). That is with a 1.5" condenser with a 9psi nozzle. I am "upgrading" to a 2" condenser as of next brew. I have brewed two 1/2BBL batches so far with the condenser and they are very nice beers. No faults observed from using the condenser. I did puke that last one a little so I need to control my heat better. Running 240V 5500W element at 40%. Probably need to run it at 30-35%. Before using the condenser I would run at 63%. BTW, the cooling water smells awful. I would not use if for anything but watering the grass.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I'm wondering why you would have to reduce the power efficientcy from say 90% to 35%. Is it due to increased pressure by having the lid on?

 

[mikehoover]

I'm wondering why you would have to reduce the power efficientcy from say 90% to 35%. Is it due to increased pressure by having the lid on?

I think it is because having the lid on traps a lot of heat. The condenser will create a negative pressure in the BK.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm wondering why you would have to reduce the power efficientcy from say 90% to 35%. Is it due to increased pressure by having the lid on?

It'll brew up if you have too much power going. I found also that the steam catcher wouldn't work as well at full boil--I'd get steam escaping the lid.

There's another reason people turn it down. Increasingly there is an argument that a softer boil will result in less damage to the wort and improve stability. So many are turning it down.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I think it is because having the lid on traps a lot of heat. The condenser will create a negative pressure in the BK.

Thanks buddy, I haven't installed the slayer yet so the more info I have the better. Prost

 

[Zenmeister]

Just so you know, I just bought and received my Spike 20 gal system because of the Steam Slayer and everything Brun Dog did to create this. Without that there was no easy way to ventilate mygarage, and I couldn't figure out how to make it work. My electrician comes over tomorrow, and testing begins tomorrow nite. So, BrunDog, I hope you are happy. You (and all the others here...) made me buy my Spike system, AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!
(Thank you! )

 

[butterblum]

I had a 3.5gal boil going the other day using this, and it totally reduced the amount of heat I needed to maintain a boil. I have 2ea 1500W elements, and even with one turned off, I was able to maintain a boil with the EZBoil set to 1% power in boil mode.

 

[doug293cz]

I had a 3.5gal boil going the other day using this, and it totally reduced the amount of heat I needed to maintain a boil. I have 2ea 1500W elements, and even with one turned off, I was able to maintain a boil with the EZBoil set to 1% power in boil mode.

Are you sure that one of the elements was off? Don't think it's possible to maintain a boil of 3.5 gal with 15W of power (1% of 1500W.) Or are you saying that the 1% power element was for all intents and purposes "off"?

Brew on

 

[butterblum]

Are you sure that one of the elements was off? Don't think it's possible to maintain a boil of 3.5 gal with 15W of power (1% of 1500W.) Or are you saying that the 1% power element was for all intents and purposes "off"?

Brew on

It indeed is possible. If I have a 5-6gal boil, I can maintain a rolling boil with only one element on at 10-12%
That doesn't mean that I don't need more power to get it to a boil, but it doesn't take much to maintain it.

 

[ancientmariner52]

It indeed is possible. If I have a 5-6gal boil, I can maintain a rolling boil with only one element on at 10-12%
That doesn't mean that I don't need more power to get it to a boil, but it doesn't take much to maintain it.

The physics of boiling water are very strange. It doesn't take a lot of energy ( 1 BTU per 1 Lb. per 1 °F ) to increase temperature to the boiling point. However, it then takes, IIRC, 980 BTU per lb. to start boiling, with no increase in temperature. How weird is that? Anyway, once boiling starts, you only have to add energy to replace losses from radiation and steam. With the lid on and the condenser working, those losses go WAY down. So these observations make perfect sense, thermodynamics-wise.

BTW: that 980 BTU thing is why steam will burn you so much worse than hot water.

 

[gromitdj]

It indeed is possible. If I have a 5-6gal boil, I can maintain a rolling boil with only one element on at 10-12%
That doesn't mean that I don't need more power to get it to a boil, but it doesn't take much to maintain it.

The physics of boiling water are very strange. It doesn't take a lot of energy ( 1 BTU per 1 Lb. per 1 °F ) to increase temperature to the boiling point. However, it then takes, IIRC, 980 BTU per lb. to start boiling, with no increase in temperature. How weird is that? Anyway, once boiling starts, you only have to add energy to replace losses from radiation and steam. With the lid on and the condenser working, those losses go WAY down. So these observations make perfect sense, thermodynamics-wise.

BTW: that 980 BTU thing is why steam will burn you so much worse than hot water.

In @doug293cz 's defense, You originally said 1% power...

 

[butterblum]

In @doug293cz 's defense, You originally said 1% power...

In my defense, I did say that.
1% for a 3.5gal boil
10% or maybe slightly less for a 5.5gal boil

 

[ancientmariner52]

In my defense, I did say that.
1% for a 3.5gal boil
10% or maybe slightly less for a 5.5gal boil

I took it for granted that your display shows 1%. Whether that indication is accurate is an entirely seperate issue. I'd be willing to bet the actual output is something more than 55w. After all, that's in the weak-incandescent-lightbulb range.

 

[Gameface]

 

[doug293cz]

That's a pretty small batch of beer.

Brew on

 

[butterblum]

You shouldn’t throttle the inflow as it will create an unknown pressure drop. If you need to reduce pressure, use a water pressure regulator, otherwise if you have high pressure, you are better dropping to the smaller spray nozzle.

I personally get boil-off rate of about 1/2 - 2/3 gallons per hour on a 5 gallon batch (so maybe about 6.5 gallons per-boil).

Pardon me asking, but why is bad to have an unknown pressure drop? The hose is certainly fine seeing an increase in pressure.