Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

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Dockside_Brewing said:
Did you order a 1.5 blank cap just in case for a large grain bill mash in?
Click to expand...

Yeah. I also ordered 3,6 and 9 gph nozzles because I can't resist experimenting and trying to use as little water as possible. Also got a 1.5" nipple, I think you said to use that length if going with 1.5" tri clamp version.
 
That is 100% correct. Get a good drill bit to drill your pilot hole. That SS puts up a fight. Use cutting oil on the hole saw. Lots of pressure and low RPM.
 
Dockside_Brewing said:
That is 100% correct. Get a good drill bit to drill your pilot hole. That SS puts up a fight. Use cutting oil on the hole saw. Lots of pressure and low RPM.
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I'm a little concerned about drilling the hole in the kettle. I bought the 42 mm drill bit from SS Brewtech so hopefully everything goes smoothly. Did you have any issues with the 1.5" weldless bulkhead sealing against the kettle wall? SS Brewtech mentioned a lot about using the fitting on a flat surface like a kettle lid but not much else.
 
The pilot hole is the key. Measure twice drill once! The fitting seats really well. It has a nice O ring. When you install it, the 42 mm hole has a little wiggle room. Make sure the fitting is centered up and hand tighten the nut. Then put a tri clamp fitting in the outside to help hold it while you tighten the nut. I used a pair of channel locks.
 
Dockside_Brewing said:
Thanks for the formula. Here is what I calculated for the 3 nozzles at 60 psi

3.16 gph nozzle will actually be at 3.87 at my pressure
6.32 gph nozzle will actually be at 7.74 at my pressure
9.49 gph nozzle will actually be at 11.62 at my pressure

It looks like the 6.32 will be my best bet. I could always add a pressure gauge to tweak.
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No problem. Those all look right. Especially since you used the right flow rates. :D
 
Maybe I missed this, but are you using 1.5 or 2" tc for the port out of the kettle? Looking at the comments, it appears 1.5, just wondering. I may look into doing this on mine. I know the results aren't in conclusively, but I can't imagine any difference with this vs. a standard boil for dms elimination.
 
Thanks for the link. More validation. That study was with no venting at all. I was about to design a hood setup when I stumbled upon Bundogs thread. This will make inside brewing a reality and save a lot of money in the process. Plus no loud vent hood!!
 
Dockside_Brewing said:
Thanks for the link. More validation. That study was with no venting at all. I was about to design a hood setup when I stumbled upon Bundogs thread. This will make inside brewing a reality and save a lot of money in the process. Plus no loud vent hood!!
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I agree! I was really struggling to come up with a ventilation solution for the area in my basement where I'll be brewing. I'm actually brewing my last batch out in the garage today. I may still install a small fan in the basement just to help with odors, but I'm not really worried about it. Now all I have to do is drill the hole in the kettle without screwing up.
 
This system is also great for people like myself that don't have a dedicated brew space. I can brew in the kitchen, laundry room, or bathroom without really worrying about all the wood trim etc getting mildew or mold or any other potential water/steam damage. The linked dms experiments are also pretty interesting, but to be honest, moisture/steam control is my biggest concern
 
Does anyone know if the actual port dimensional specification of the TC tee makes any difference to the efficiency of the condenser? I'm not referring to sizing of the TC tee (1-1/2" vs 2") but rather the distance between input from the kettle (steam) and the spray inlet and waste water output ports. Here are a couple of pics of what I'm referring too. As you can see the RIMS tube has a longer drop on it vs the instrument tee.
tc-rims-tube-.jpg
ss-1.5TC-instrument-tee.jpg
 
Steam naturally goes up, if I have a spare RIMS tube, and would like to use it for this configuration, I would put nozzle on the long side.
 
Tartan1 said:
Does anyone know if the actual port dimensional specification of the TC tee makes any difference to the efficiency of the condenser? I'm not referring to sizing of the TC tee (1-1/2" vs 2") but rather the distance between input from the kettle (steam) and the spray inlet and waste water output ports. Here are a couple of pics of what I'm referring too. As you can see the RIMS tube has a longer drop on it vs the instrument tee.
View attachment 550356 View attachment 550357
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I would be fairly confident that a longer down tube will help, but I also believe the results will be negligible. Can probably get away with a lower volume sprayer, but to me, that's a moot point. Within the thread, they're between a 6 and a 9gph, I'm not overly concerned about 3-5 gallons.

That said...

Where is that rims tube from? I was piecing this setup together last night and noticed with a couple more parts, you'd also have a nice E-RIMS setup for mash. Haven't figured out a way to use the tc flange on the kettle for return yet, but have the rest worked out.

Don't think I'll be able to use the kettle port, as I BIAB, but someone who doesn't could probably use a TC cap on the kettle with a full coupling in it (I believe brewhardware has these) and run a pipe/manifold from the inside to the mash. Then something threaded into the other side to go to the "out" from the RIMS.

For the rims, you'd add a TC element from brewhardware and likely a 12-18" tc sanitary 1.5 spool to allow for the element (don't think the Tre is long wnough, but the one you posted may be).

Take the barb that was on the bottom as the drain and place in the side as the new inlet for the RIMS, replace the top with a 1/2 male npt tc cap and put a 1/2 NPT tee on that run the perpendicular port on that tee as a temp probe and the final open port with whatever connection you prefer as the out to mash port(cam lock in my case)

A few extra parts, but other than the element, probably only about 50 bucks to be able to switch easily between RIMS and condense.


*Edit to add that the steam/condensing portion of the process would probably clean up the RIMS pretty well too.
 
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Two comments:
1. There may be a big difference between 6 and 9 gosh sprayers. When I did the math, the calculations yielded a need for approx 7 gph. But that assumed that the boil-off rate would remain the same. It is not because the contained heat requires the power to be brought down and reduces the boil-off rate. So 6 is probably the right number for a typical 15-20 gal boil kettle powered by a 5500W element.

2. The RIMs tube shown is from a typical kit that some vendors like Brewers Hardware sell.
 
BrunDog said:
Two comments:
1. There may be a big difference between 6 and 9 gosh sprayers. When I did the math, the calculations yielded a need for approx 7 gph. But that assumed that the boil-off rate would remain the same. It is not because the contained heat requires the power to be brought down and reduces the boil-off rate. So 6 is probably the right number for a typical 15-20 gal boil kettle powered by a 5500W element.

2. The RIMs tube shown is from a typical kit that some vendors like Brewers Hardware sell.
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When I was poking around last night, I'd only found either a tee with equal lengths like you guys have or a rims tube like brewers hardware or brewhardware has, but those only had 1/2 inlets (bumped at the connection end to 1.5 TC). I was curious about his as it had all 1.5 inch with an offset tee.

Turns out though the body on that one is only about 8", making it not well suited to use as dual duty since the ULWD TC flange elements are 9 inches. Better to just use the normal tee with a spool to get the extra body length, or maybe another tee for a "side in/side out" configuration with an RTD probe in the top cap.

Or use the same NPT temp probe set up I mentioned before but move it to the side. Basically my approach is to try to create RIMS and condense out of the same basic parts. As it sits, I've got it in my head to where just the top and bottom caps(bottom containing element) need to be swapped, along with removing the side to attach to kettle when ready to boil.
 
so... i dont need to do double duty as a rims or anything... My lhbs shop had just that half of a rims setup available. Is there any benefit to one shorter length between ports? I was thinking about shortening up the nipple going to the sprayer nozzle to just above the side inlet, maximizing the spray contacting steam, and the distance the resulting water would travel, hoping that cause more vaccuum effect?
 
Keep in mind the sprayer sprays in a cone pattern. At some point water cone will contact the tube walls, and at that point really becomes ineffective. You need mist in the air which combines with the steam. This was one of the main reasons I went with a 2” TC. So a longer section post nozzle won’t really yield any benefit unless the sprayer could mist in a more vertical pattern. Maybe a different sprayer would be better such as a fogging mister, but it needs to put the required volume of water into the “conversion chamber”.
 
I built the condenser and attached it to an 1-1/2" TC port in the lid of my system. During my test run with the lid not sealed tight, I was quite surprised to see that even with a vigorous boil (5500w element @55% power) there was no steam escaping out of the gap in the lid. I wanted to see if I could still hang my hop basket, set the lid on top, and boil away. From the trial run, it appears that I can. I'm running the 6gph@40 psi nozzle and my house pressure is 75psi. Looking forward to brewing a beer soon with this and will be sure to post back with results.

Cheers,
Joe

IMG_20171201_162154292.jpg IMG_20171203_111113744.jpg
 
Nice built! What kind of kettle do you have? It has ring clamp, and pressure relief valve on the lid.
 
Do you think this would work with a kettle side-port and BIAB?

I don't think I'll fill up the kettle all the way. I have a large kettle - 25 gallons (20.5" wide by 17.5" tall). I plan on brewing 10-11 gallon batches most of the time and stouts/ales mostly. I've not brewed in my BIAB system yet.

I'm in Minnesota and our winters get pretty dry/low humidity. Even mash temperatures generate a lot of humidity in my cold winter garage. I think this would be a lot easier than putting a regular ventilation system.

I really need to do something with the condensation. I'd like to use this method but wonder if it'll work during mash with a bag in the kettle when using a side-kettle port. If it matters, I'll be using one of the "Brew in a Bag" bags.
 
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gnor said:
Nice built! What kind of kettle do you have? It has ring clamp, and pressure relief valve on the lid.
Click to expand...

Thanks, its a BREWHA BIAC system. Similar to many of the electric all in one systems, I can mash, boil, and ferment all in one vessel. This condenser was the missing link to be able to move completely indoors.
 
Do you think a counter flow chiller could be repurposed for this? I'm shopping around for a condensation hood and fan for my basement right now and ran across this a few days ago.
 
sillbeer said:
Do you think a counter flow chiller could be repurposed for this? I'm shopping around for a condensation hood and fan for my basement right now and ran across this a few days ago.
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I doubt if a counter flow chiller would work as efficiently. The basic principle of a steam condenser is direct contact between the cold water spray and the steam, which causes the steam to rapidly condense and create a vacuum.

Using a heat exchanger like a CFC would eliminate the direct contact between your cooling water and the steam. You might make it work, but would need to use a lot more water to get the same amount of condensation. I think the smaller tubes of a CFC would really limit how fast you could pull the steam out.
 
rkhanso said:
Do you think this would work with a kettle side-port and BIAB?

I don't think I'll fill up the kettle all the way. I have a large kettle - 25 gallons (20.5" wide by 17.5" tall). I plan on brewing 10-11 gallon batches most of the time and stouts/ales mostly. I've not brewed in my BIAB system yet.

I'm in Minnesota and our winters get pretty dry/low humidity. Even mash temperatures generate a lot of humidity in my cold winter garage. I think this would be a lot easier than putting a regular ventilation system.

I really need to do something with the condensation. I'd like to use this method but wonder if it'll work during mash with a bag in the kettle when using a side-kettle port. If it matters, I'll be using one of the "Brew in a Bag" bags.
Click to expand...
Are you leaving the lid off for mash? You really shouldn't get much steam if the lid is on (which it should be).

That said, I'll be putting together mine for BIAB first week of January, so I'll know then. I plan to put the tc port in the lid so I can use it for RIMS and as a condenser.
 
I haven't made beer with it yet - just testing it out first.

Yes, a cover is being used - I'm recirculating during mash and have a large plastic garbage can lid that goes over the kettle where I've put a bulkhead fitting in to recirculate the mash to the top. The lid is 'domed' and higher in the middle, tapering down to the edge.

The lid is a bit too large for the kettle (which is 21" wide) and condensation drips down the lid and on the outside of the kettle, onto the (waterproof) element box on the outside of the kettle. I was just hoping to eliminate this dripping so I don't have to worry about the "waterproof" box leaking or having to move everything under the kettle stand out of the way before brewing.

I was hoping I could still use the side-port condensation thingy explained on this thread even though I have a bag in the kettle also. I doubt I'd ever have enough grain in the bag to block the exhaust port to the Tee assembly. But the brew bag will be there.

IMG_20171215_094914.jpg
 
rkhanso said:
I haven't made beer with it yet - just testing it out first.

Yes, a cover is being used - I'm recirculating during mash and have a large plastic garbage can lid that goes over the kettle where I've put a bulkhead fitting in to recirculate the mash to the top. The lid is 'domed' and higher in the middle, tapering down to the edge.

The lid is a bit too large for the kettle (which is 21" wide) and condensation drips down the lid and on the outside of the kettle, onto the (waterproof) element box on the outside of the kettle. I was just hoping to eliminate this dripping so I don't have to worry about the "waterproof" box leaking or having to move everything under the kettle stand out of the way before brewing.

I was hoping I could still use the side-port condensation thingy explained on this thread even though I have a bag in the kettle also. I doubt I'd ever have enough grain in the bag to block the exhaust port to the Tee assembly. But the brew bag will be there.

View attachment 550470
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Kettle didn't come with a lid? You'll need a lid that drops down into the kettle a little before resting in the lip of the kettle. (forming a drip edge, directing condensation back to the mash) Any lid that comes with a kettle should have that.

The weight of an actual lid will help too.
 
BrunDog said:
If you BIAB... the bag will be removed prior to the boil. So there should be no concern about the bag interfering with the side port, unless I am missing something?
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He's getting condensation during mash.

You'll need a lid that fits. There's tons in different diameters on Amazon or eBay. This'll help tremendously with heat retention as well.
 
I was wondering about the condenser for mashing based on the need to use it when boiling. I need to get rid of the condensation - condensation starts quickly in the low room temps I'll be brewing at in the garage in the winter. If I used the condenser for boiling, I was wondering if it would also work during mash when doing BIAB.

I found a lid that will fit for $25. I guess now my great deal on the Craigslist kettle is not as good as I thought it was.
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/21-aluminum-pot-pan-cover/407APTC100.html

There are others at restaurant supply places online that are cheaper, but they don't state the diameters. I've sent their customer service departments some emails.

None the right size on Amazon or eBay that I found. 20" ID x 21" OD would be a decent fit - close enough.

I'll find one and drill a hole in it for the bulkhead fitting.

Where I'm brewing in the garage is cold - just above freezing right now. Condensation starts at relatively low temperatures. I hope the BIAB bag won't wick up moisture up and around and drip down the outside of the kettle.
 
rkhanso said:
I bought the Kettle on Craigslist. No lid. Not sure I'll easily find one that will fit.
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You can buy lids of just about any size. The internet is an amazing thing. Just measure the diameter of the top of your kettle and google for a lid of that size. I did this to get a second lid so I could punch some holes and experiment with it. It took a little snooping to find one that gave the dimensions of the indented portion, but you can find the info.
 
Subbed for sure! Just did my first brew on a new electric kit, and two big issues were not being able to maintain a boil while recirculating and the large amount of condensate I was getting on my kitchen ceiling. It looks like this condenser idea may solve both.

Can't wait to see some more of the builds and outcomes, regarding DMS and everything.
 
I've been looking online. Most of the websites don't give the dimensions/diameter of the lid. A couple do. I called some of the companies that don't have dimensions and they said they don't stock the large lids and the manufacturer won't likely get back to them soon, if at all.

I thought about making my own out of a sheet of aluminum, but it's probably going to be cheaper to buy a real lid. It looks like about $40 with shipping included.
 

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