Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

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I love the smell of brewing, but not everyone in the house agrees. Does this method help eliminate the steam and the smell?
 
I've put together a parts list for a couple different variants of this that mount to the lid. You can silver solder the ferrule to the lid after cutting a hole in it. I'll be going with the 6"x2" bowl reducer and 2" tri-clover parts on a 25 gallon kettle. I'm going to cut some silicon hose down one side to make a gasket that fits onto the kettle to help reduce the amount of steam. I found a 2" tri-colver flange that has a 1/2" Female NPT on both sides letting you attach a 90 degree elbow to the top, and the 1/2" to 1/8" reducer inside.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...10pD__4kqO4stmfrUpKCSI8ai1I/edit#gid=44636811
 
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I just ordered the parts for a 1.5" TC version with an instrument T, 1.5" weldless bulkhead and the 9.5 GPH sprayer to install on a Colorado Brew systems Nano 20. The parts should be here Thursday. I am going to install it on Friday, do a test boil to determine my new boil off rate and brew a 10 gallon batch of https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/summer-citra-cerveza.449595/ on Saturday.
 
@Dockside_Brewing, I look forward to hearing how that beer turns out and if all the DMS gets expelled. The steam condenser is the last thing I'll be purchasing for my system so I'll wait for you feed back before I proceed. Going with a 6" to 2" reducer is probably over kill and I could easily get away with using a 1.5" TC.

Will you be mounting this to the lid or the side of you brew kettle?
 
this is an extremely interesting thread. I to am eagerly awaiting results from the test batches, though don't really brew a lot of lagers and helles, so it may not matter as much to me. I'll likely try buy a flat lid for my keggle that i could cut in half and solder some stainless hinges in order to top mount this, and still be able to open (part of) the lid for hop additions etc. unless anyone has a good line on a hinged stainless lid. time to start searching alibaba...
 
ajt2 said:
@Dockside_Brewing, I look forward to hearing how that beer turns out and if all the DMS gets expelled. The steam condenser is the last thing I'll be purchasing for my system so I'll wait for you feed back before I proceed. Going with a 6" to 2" reducer is probably over kill and I could easily get away with using a 1.5" TC.

Will you be mounting this to the lid or the side of you brew kettle?
Click to expand...

Mine will be mounted on the side . I have 65 psi water pressure so this should really work well with the larger nozzle. I’ll docum ent the install with lots of photos.
 
Thedutchtouch said:
this is an extremely interesting thread. I to am eagerly awaiting results from the test batches, though don't really brew a lot of lagers and helles, so it may not matter as much to me. I'll likely try buy a flat lid for my keggle that i could cut in half and solder some stainless hinges in order to top mount this, and still be able to open (part of) the lid for hop additions etc. unless anyone has a good line on a hinged stainless lid. time to start searching alibaba...
Click to expand...

I am interested in this for my next upgrade as well and have been thinking about a 2nd 1.5" TC fitting in the lid with a solid cap on it that can be removed for hop additions. Seems to me the simplest method although the cap and clamp will be too hot to touch with bare hands.
 
Very cool idea. I wonder if you could just modify a water bed/aquarium venturi pump for this. I used to have a set-up where I used a little venturi pump to create a vacuum in the fermenter which would pull wort from my kettle, thru the cfc and into the fermenter. There was a comercially available one called the "wort wizard" probably about 10 years ago. Anyways, here's the little pump part that you can find for under $10. It hooks directly to your garden hose then you would have to modify the vacuum port to connect to your kettle.
617tgqQFIML._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg
 
This is very intriguing to me as an apartment brewer and I have been researching these "barometric" / jet condensers over the past couple of days. I wanted to see what everyone's thought on a couple of questions I have had:

1) Most designs I've seen online have the steam inlet in the bottom half (above the water drain) but also a open-air vent above the spray water inlet to allow for incondensable vapors to escape. Now having this port would limit the vacuum effect since it would now be an open system but perhaps this would better facilitate DMS and other volatile gasses removal?

2) I'm pondering how the mounting of the condenser could effect its performance. My concern with just attaching it via a Tee is the potential for spray water or condensed vapors to drip back into the kettle which would obviously defeat the purpose of boiling beyond sanitation. I like the idea of mounting this "column" on the wall behind my kettle with a length of silicone tubing at a negative angle (i.e. the condenser is lower than the kettle lid) so that all condensate goes to the condenser. Assuming I use a large diameter hose do you think this added length (1-2 ft.) could cause a negative impact?

3) Would there be any benefit to using a larger diameter condenser / chamber? If I used a 4" OD Tube instead of a 2" so 4x the volume vs the same length of 2" Tube would it work "better?"
 
I'm in the process of building a recirc BIAB kettle with the recirc going through the lid. I'm going to use the same 1.5" TC port for the recirc and condenser. After I pull the bag my plan is to swap out the recirc with the condenser. Like others have brought up this could make it difficult to get into the kettle for hop additions and such. The ideas I came up with were:

Hinged lid - Looked around on-line but couldn't find anything pre-made. Was hoping to find something like a soup kettle lid that would fit my 44qt Bayou Classic. I also thought about just cutting my lid and bolting on a hinge. But I feared it would not come out well, which was the likely outcome.

Add a second TC port - I could get a TC cap and devise a way to attach a handle to it (e.g. drill a hole and attach with a screw). I also thought a funnel may be needed to make additions easier. For the funnel I probably would have used a TC concentric reducer. I thought this option was a good viable idea.

Use a flex hose - This is the idea I ended up choosing. I'm going to use a 90 out the top of kettle to a 1.5" stainless flex hose, attached with 1.5" hose barbs. I searched around for the flex hose and found a 20" length for $20 that's meant for a turbo. It's a Vibrant Performance Flexible Interlock Hose. I ordered it from Summit (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/VPE-84027).

I ordered the hose first to see if it was viable and if a 90 was needed or not out of the top of the kettle. I decided a 90 would probably be best so the flex hose can be sloped down to the condenser. The hose can be flexed into one sweeping arc that would place it about 12" above the kettle, but allow for no down slope.

I have the rest of the parts on order and will post up when I get this thing built and tested out. My only concern at this point is how good the seal between the hose and barbs is going to be. If it does need to be sealed, I guess I could just apply silicone sealant to the barbs.
 
Brewed a 10 gallon batch yesterday and it worked flawlessly. For a 60 minute boil I ended up with about 13 gallons of waste water. No steam left the pot with a really vigorous boil. I am adding a bulkhead to my sink with a camloc to send the waste to the drain instead of a bucket. Brundog's condenser mod in a no brainer. I like the DIY version better than Brew Boss's. Its larger, cheaper, and looks better. No lid gasket needed.
 
I also have a Nano and I am considering this build in lieu of a hood. My concern is my hop basket (would allow steam to escape) and also a full kettle (would definitely fill up to the TC port). The fix for me would be a lid TC port connection. But I still need to come up with a hops basket solution. Any thoughts?
 
Glad to hear it went well @Dockside_Brewing! Please keep us informed how it turns out. Curiously: what did you need to lower your heat % from/to for the boil? What was your boil-off rate change?

I did a brew last week of an Oktoberfest (oops) and it would have went well, but there were two confounding factors:
1. I forgot to update my hops alpha into the recipe, and it turned out the Hallertau I had for the bittering hops was a much lower alpha than needed. I added all that I had and boiled it longer but it still is probably going to be too sweet.
2. I also forgot to update my recipe to accommodate for the lower boil-off rate. And the recipe was set for a 90 minute boil. Pre-condenser it was ~1.25 gph. Post condenser it is more like 0.35 gph. Therefore I would have had 1.35 gallons too much ad the end of the boil. As a result, I took the lid off with 15 mins left in the boil and turned up the heat. So unfortunately I will not be able to claim success or failure in the finished beer since the condenser was not used for the whole boil. I will say the waste water has a definite scent and smell of sweetness... so it is not just water leaving the kettle.

So... word of caution for anyone trying this... figure out your new boil-off rate and adjust your recipes!
 
I agree 100%. I did a one hour test boil to come of with my .7 gph boil rate, The waste water has a strong aroma and its hot so I know its pulling the boil off out. The bad steam still gets out but its much more efficient. I have never seen an open kettle at any of the breweries I have visited.
 
What nozzle did you use (6 or 9 gph @40 psi)? Do you know what your home water pressure is?

The key is the water exiting the drain is very hot, as in just below boiling. If it is too cold, the misting from the nozzle is either inefficient, in which case some of the steam will not get converted, or the flow is too high, which is just wasting extra water. I used the 9 gph but I think I am going to go back to the 6 as I think I get more efficient misting with the 6. My home water pressure is probably around 30 psi.
 
@Dockside_Brewing the pictures of your brewery are incredible, nice work! Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing My 25 gal kettle has a lip around the outside of it. So the top of the hole will be down approximately 2" from the top of the kettle? Do you guys see any problems with that? I'm not worried about wort level during the boil, I do 10 gal batches. May have to have it closed off with a blank when I'm mashing a big beer, but that shouldn't be a problem.

IMG_2933.JPG
 
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BrunDog said:
What nozzle did you use (6 or 9 gph @40 psi)? Do you know what your home water pressure is?

The key is the water exiting the drain is very hot, as in just below boiling. If it is too cold, the misting from the nozzle is either inefficient, in which case some of the steam will not get converted, or the flow is too high, which is just wasting extra water. I used the 9 gph but I think I am going to go back to the 6 as I think I get more efficient misting with the 6. My home water pressure is probably around 30 psi.
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I just put the pressure meter on my house....60 PSI. I am going to order the 6.32 and 3.16 to experiment with. I wish they had a spec for other water pressures.
 
That's a big difference and explains the 13 gallons of waste water you had (although the steam should add to the volume too... so maybe 12.3 is spray and 0.7 is boil-off). 60 psi is nice. Higher pressure is better as you create finer particles to more efficiently convert the steam. I think you can try the 6, but I would wait on trying one smaller than that.
 
jahlinux said:
@Dockside_Brewing the pictures of your brewery are incredible, nice work! Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing My 25 gal kettle has a lip around the outside of it. So the top of the hole will be down approximately 2" from the top of the kettle? Do you guys see any problems with that? I'm not worried about wort level during the boil, I do 10 gal batches. May have to have it closed off with a blank when I'm mashing a big beer, but that shouldn't be a problem.

View attachment 550161
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment.......I do not see a problem. I also do 10 gallon batches. I have a 1.5" tri blank cap in case I have to mash some massive beer. Once the basket is out I can connect the condenser for boil.
 
BrunDog said:
That's a big difference and explains the 13 gallons of waste water you had (although the steam should add to the volume too... so maybe 12.3 is spray and 0.7 is boil-off). 60 psi is nice. Higher pressure is better as you create finer particles to more efficiently convert the steam. I think you can try the 6, but I would wait on trying one smaller than that.
Click to expand...

I just ordered both nozzles but will use the 6 on my next batch.
 
I read MOST of this thread so forgive me if i missed the answer to my question. Has it been determined that DMS not an issue?
 
We can’t say for sure yet! Only a couple of beers made so far. Per above, my test beer was a multi-variable experiment so nothing came from it. Got one in the fermenter but screwed that up to per above! More tests from more users soon hopefully.
 
Dockside_Brewing said:
Thanks for the compliment.......I do not see a problem. I also do 10 gallon batches. I have a 1.5" tri blank cap in case I have to mash some massive beer. Once the basket is out I can connect the condenser for boil.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking. I'm going to order the parts to build the same one you did and give it a try. I'm interested to hear how you make out with the hop basket. Keep us posted.
 
pickles said:
I read MOST of this thread so forgive me if i missed the answer to my question. Has it been determined that DMS not an issue?
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I do not think the DMS will be a problem. If you leave the lid on with all grain brewing you will get DMS. DMS exits at 99 degrees. Yes the lid is on but we ARE venting the steam with a vigorous boil. Look at the kettles in any brewery. They are all covered and have some sort of vent system, some active and some passive. I was in a brew pub in Dayton Ohio the other day and the venting was a passive vent out of the top, that was it. Ultimately the proof will be in the finished beer and I cannot wait to taste the one in the fermenter. Standby.........
 
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Dockside_Brewing said:
I just put the pressure meter on my house....60 PSI. I am going to order the 6.32 and 3.16 to experiment with. I wish they had a spec for other water pressures.
Click to expand...

It’s not exact but you can approximate by using a flow coefficient (Cv). Cv=GPM/sqrt(dP). For the 6 gph version at 40 psi: 6 gph=0.1 gpm, 40 psi is the pressure drop at that flow since it discharges at atmospheric pressure. So Cv=0.1/sqrt(40)—>Cv=.0158. Then if you apply your house pressure to that nozzle: GPM=Cv*sqrt(dP)=0.0158*sqrt(60)=0.1225gpm=7.35 gph.

Looking forward to the results of the experiments. This is really cool!
 
Cool_Hand_Luke said:
It’s not exact but you can approximate by using a flow coefficient (Cv). Cv=GPM/sqrt(dP). For the 6 gph version at 40 psi: 6 gph=0.1 gpm, 40 psi is the pressure drop at that flow since it discharges at atmospheric pressure. So Cv=0.1/sqrt(40)—>Cv=.0158. Then if you apply your house pressure to that nozzle: GPM=Cv*sqrt(dP)=0.0158*sqrt(60)=0.1225gpm=7.35 gph.

Looking forward to the results of the experiments. This is really cool!
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Thanks for the formula. Here is what I calculated for the 3 nozzles at 60 psi

3.16 gph nozzle will actually be at 3.87 at my pressure
6.32 gph nozzle will actually be at 7.74 at my pressure
9.49 gph nozzle will actually be at 11.62 at my pressure

It looks like the 6.32 will be my best bet. I could always add a pressure gauge to tweak.
 
Hopefully I didn't miss this being discussed already, but is the proximity of the spray nozzle to the steam source(kettle) important? Or, to ask in another way, other than the extra $$ for more stainless plumbing, what do you guys think of having this setup mounted a few feet away from the BK, like down on the lower level of a brew stand to get it out of the way/have a permanent mount location, and using a longer pipe to connect to the kettle?
 
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I don’t know if that will work. Probably would if you seal the kettle lid. Steam is hot and wants to rise. The sprayer does not create much of a Venturi effect and that is not the goal. The vacuum is theoretically created by the steam getting cooled and volumetrically shrinking. So, conceptually speaking, it could work as long as there is motivation for the steam to get to the sprayer location.
 
BrunDog said:
I don’t know if that will work. Probably would if you seal the kettle lid. Steam is hot and wants to rise. The sprayer does not create much of a Venturi effect and that is not the goal. The vacuum is theoretically created by the steam getting cooled and volumetrically shrinking. So, conceptually speaking, it could work as long as there is motivation for the steam to get to the sprayer location.
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I have a somewhat hairbrained idea of using a keg with the top uncut, connecting a tc to the top with an instrument t. Cap on the top for hop additions, steam out the side of the T... But there's a lot of other issues to consider so the easiest thing is likely to copy your setup with a normal, top cut out keggle. Since it's a keggle and I usually do 5 gal with the occasional 10 gal batch, there's plenty of room for a side port at the top, and I wouldn't really *need* to vent out the top, was just wondering.
 

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