Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[mongoose33]

Still following along with that odor conversation as I'll be brewing in the basement right next to the furnace as well. However, what are you guys doing to your recipes/mash/sparge water to account for the boil off rates? Larger grain bill? Just less water? Any examples you can provide that provided success getting to your OG using this beautiful device?

I've increased the grain bill, but I'm doing a sort of odd thing--no sparge, sort of a combination of BIAB with a RIMS mash tun.

 

[Beerwildered]

Has anyone rigged up a condenser on a Blichmann boil kettle or on a BrewEasy? I’m seriously contemplating, but I’d love to know what your learnings were.

 

[Tommydee]

Love the steamslayer idea and am preparing to rig one up, but having hesitation about the smell. Any of you folks who are operating one: how about putting a little oxyclean powder into the collection bucket periodically, like a pinch every 15 minutes? The hot water should easily dissolve it, and I wonder whether the oxidation will kill the odors.
Thanks,
Mike

Its not so bad as to influence buying decision, but bad enough to rule out the plan of recycling for cleaning purposes.. It just means The cost of collecting the condensate is a stinky brewery, just let it flow to drain if you can, problem solved.

I precharged my collection bucket with pbw, there's still a dms odor. I had a significant boilover during the brew day, so that also made it smell a bit more than standard. (Due to a controller issue). I also then recirced the paw/condensate solution for cleaning my kettle. Wife and kids mildly complained of the smell after full brew day was over (they smell brewing, not necessarily DMS) but I had these other factors. So, I would still buy. Next brew, I'm going to just run to drain with no collection, and I've managed the controller issue. I'll post back if I still get complaints, but I expect this will solve things.

I also heard that if you collect the condensate, and let it sit exposed overnight, your brewery will stink the next day.

 

[Veets]

Its not so bad as to influence buying decision. I precharged my collection bucket with pbw, there's still a dms odor. I also then recirced this solution for cleaning, and I had a significant boilover. (Due to a controller issue). Wife and kids complained of the smell after full brew day was over, but I had these other factors. So, I would still buy. Next brew, I'm going to just run to drain with no collection, and I've managed the controller issue. I'll post back if I still get complaints.

I also heard that if you collect the condensate, and let it sit overnight, it will stink the next day.

Thanks for the feedback.

Next experiment: pour the condensate on the lawn, and see if it greens up. ;-)

 

[Beerwildered]

Its not so bad as to influence buying decision, but bad enough to rule out the plan of recycling for cleaning purposes.. It just means The cost of collecting the condensate is a stinky brewery, just let it flow to drain if you can, problem solved.

I precharged my collection bucket with pbw, there's still a dms odor. I had a significant boilover during the brew day, so that also made it smell a bit more than standard. (Due to a controller issue). I also then recirced the paw/condensate solution for cleaning my kettle. Wife and kids mildly complained of the smell after full brew day was over (they smell brewing, not necessarily DMS) but I had these other factors. So, I would still buy. Next brew, I'm going to just run to drain with no collection, and I've managed the controller issue. I'll post back if I still get complaints, but I expect this will solve things.

I also heard that if you collect the condensate, and let it sit exposed overnight, your brewery will stink the next day.

Wondering if anyone has collected the condensate into a closed or air filtered system?

 

[day_trippr]

Someone should experiment with the condensate to see if there's anything one could use to neutralize or mask the objectionable part of the aroma...

Cheers!

 

[Beerwildered]

Someone should experiment with the condensate to see if there's anything one could use to neutralize or mask the objectionable part of the aroma...

Cheers!

I’m reading that Aq. Sodium hypochlorite (household bleach) will oxidize DMS - maybe the condensate can be run into a bucket of bleach/water solution?

 

[cubsfan16]

I ordered some activated carbon air filters and plan to run a line to my sump pit and plug the hole with the filter and wrap some more of the filter media around the PVC pipe opening my condenser hose is going into on the other end to see what that does. If that doesn't work I still have my ventilation fan and will just run some flexible duct hose near the drain opening and the other out a nearby window. If that works, I'll try just place a fan in the window blowing out to see if that makes it better so I don't have to deal with the duct hose.

I don't want to blow the smell out of portion, making it sound like a show stopper....I'm not going back to my hood. If I wasn't married, I probably would could care less. That said, it's certainly more pungent/sharp of a smell than that mild grain smell I get from my Zymatic running w/o ventilation. The smell lingered a few hours after I was done as well. I was collecting condensate in a bucket and dumping in a sink in the basement.

I figure once I find something that works, I'll try to make it look nice.

All that said....what an awesome solution to this problem...props to Brundog

 

[BrunDog]

I never noticed any obnoxious smell, but I do brew in the large space of a closed garage. Does anyone have any comparison of a smell difference between sprayer sizes (say 6 gph vs 9)? I wonder if higher dilution reduces the apparent odor?

 

[mongoose33]

I never noticed any obnoxious smell, but I do brew in the large space of a closed garage. Does anyone have any comparison of a smell difference between sprayer sizes (say 6 gph vs 9)? I wonder if higher dilution reduces the apparent odor?

I have the 9gph sprayer in a 2 car garage and the smell is bad. I'm running the condensate to a drain.

 

[eponymousdavid]

Could the strength of the smell be related to the tap water? Some kind of reaction with chlorine or something other in the water.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Could the strength of the smell be related to the tap water? Some kind of reaction with chlorine or something other in the water.

I've bern wondering the same thing. Also, does it vary with type of malt, hops, etc? I'm not suggesting changing recipes to control odor, I'm just curious about the variables involved.

 

[mongoose33]

Could the strength of the smell be related to the tap water? Some kind of reaction with chlorine or something other in the water.

Good idea, but I think not. I have one gallon in 8.25 gallons that is tap water, and I use Campden tablets to act as both an oxygen scavenger and dechlorinator. Not very much chlorine to begin with, and what there is should be eliminated by both pre-boiling the water as well as from the Campden tablets.

 

[eponymousdavid]

Good idea, but I think not. I have one gallon in 8.25 gallons that is tap water, and I use Campden tablets to act as both an oxygen scavenger and dechlorinator. Not very much chlorine to begin with, and what there is should be eliminated by both pre-boiling the water as well as from the Campden tablets.

Do you treat the tap water going into the mister? The high temps combined with the large amount of surface area of the atomized water would quickly create reactions with the volatile chemicals from the boil

 

[eponymousdavid]

Dms can combine with chlorine to form Dimethyl sulfide-chlorine (DMS-Cl2) and methyl chloride which has a sweet ether-like odor. Maybe this is the smell that is overwhelming and lingering? It could be any number of other compounds too. An easy solution may be to run the tap water through a carbon filter on it's way to the condenser.

 

[rkhanso]

I just brewed on Saturday and used my homemade steam condenser. I get the strong odor in the waste water and garage when mashing. Both my son and wife didn't like the smell that wafted inside the house.
My steam condenser cooling water is run through a whole-house carbon filter that takes out the chlorine from my home's water.

I have to doubt the smell is caused by the combination of chlorine and anything in or coming out of the kettle because I have this filter for my entire home. I should have very little to almost no chlorine in the water, but it still has very high alkalinity.

The next time I brew, I think I'll get a bucket that has a lid and cut a hole in the lid to put the hose for the waste water to drain into the bucket with the cover on. Then, put a hole and bottling spigot in the side of the bucket part way up and put another hose there on the open spigot to drain the water out under the garage door to get the waste water outside. This "should" give minimal contact to the air in the garage and hopefully cut down on the smell.

 

[BrunDog]

I know this discussion has gone on for a bit but I don't recall a description of the smell. What does it smell like? My initial brews were into a bucket and I don't recall anything offensive... just the sweet-ish corn-ish beer-ish smell (sorry can't describe better than that!). I use RO for the wort and hose water (city water, unfiltered) for the sprayer.

 

[schematix]

VERY strong DMS was my experience. I used tap water for the sprayer.

 

[cubsfan16]

My experience as well on my first brew....concentrated DMS spell. I’m using city water on 6gph nozzle @ 75psi. I was running the drain to a open bucket then dumping it into a sink (in basement).

 

[rkhanso]

I'm a new-ish brewer and don't know what DMS smells like.
It is a corn-type smell, but not really.
It's hard to describe.

 

[mongoose33]

Do you treat the tap water going into the mister? The high temps combined with the large amount of surface area of the atomized water would quickly create reactions with the volatile chemicals from the boil

Oho! Didn't think of that. Interesting...

I'm trying to think how I might control that. I presume I might run that water through a charcoal filter of some sort to remove the chlorine in order to test this.

Do you think this would work for a test? Supposed to get rid of chlorine....

The price is cheap enough to try, and it appears to have 1/4" John Guest fittings so I could just cut it into the water line.

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...732895503.htm?tid=-7291265722496181256&ipos=9

 

[maisch]

Waste gases from sewage treatment (720 cu m/min) were scrubbed with a soln containing 9x10-3 mol NaClO/L. Dimethyl sulfide content was reduced from 1.4 to 0.043 ppm.

A waste gas-O3 mixture from sewage treatment containing Dimethyl sulfide at 10 ppm was passed through a bed of NaClO-impregnated activated carbon to give a 96% removal rate.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/dimethyl_sulfide#section=Cleanup-Methods

Sodium hypochlorite is household bleach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite

You'll have to pass the effluent through a bed of NaClO-impregenated activated carbon. One could attach a cylinder of activated carbon soaked in bleach to the exit end of the effluent hose as long as it maintained a flow rate sufficient to keep up with the sprayer.

Maybe one of these:

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri-Clover-Filter-Barrel-1.5-Inch.html

fitted to an certain length extension spool:

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Custom-2-Inch-Tri-Clover-Extension-Spool.html

and capped by one of these to clamp to the hose:

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri_Clover_1.5_Inch_x_.5_Inch_Barbed.html

Fill with your bleached carbon and let her go.

Might even be able to attach it directly to the bottom of the condenser unit given a long enough tube.

 

[rkhanso]

Oho! Didn't think of that. Interesting...

I'm trying to think how I might control that. I presume I might run that water through a charcoal filter of some sort to remove the chlorine in order to test this.

Do you think this would work for a test? Supposed to get rid of chlorine....

The price is cheap enough to try, and it appears to have 1/4" John Guest fittings so I could just cut it into the water line.

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...732895503.htm?tid=-7291265722496181256&ipos=9

Mongoose33,
I already have one of these filtering my home water (similar, but different -- which supplies the cooling water to the condenser) and I still get the bad smell.
https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...013-c-8685.htm?tid=6353942181388890165&ipos=1

It's basically doing the same thing you're suggestion would do. Smell still exists.

 

[mongoose33]

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/dimethyl_sulfide#section=Cleanup-Methods

Sodium hypochlorite is household bleach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite

You'll have to pass the effluent through a bed of NaClO-impregenated activated carbon. One could attach a cylinder of activated carbon soaked in bleach to the exit end of the effluent hose as long as it maintained a flow rate sufficient to keep up with the sprayer.

Maybe one of these:

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri-Clover-Filter-Barrel-1.5-Inch.html

fitted to an certain length extension spool:

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Custom-2-Inch-Tri-Clover-Extension-Spool.html

and capped by one of these to clamp to the hose:

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri_Clover_1.5_Inch_x_.5_Inch_Barbed.html

Fill with your bleached carbon and let her go.

Might even be able to attach it directly to the bottom of the condenser unit given a long enough tube.

I'm afraid this won't work. If you terminate the effluent hose in water, it ceases to work in pulling steam. Anything, I suspect, that provides any sort of back pressure will stop the steamslayer from working.

Good thinking, though. I suspect we'll solve this if enough people are putting their minds to it.

 

[rkhanso]

I'm afraid this won't work. If you terminate the effluent hose in water, it ceases to work in pulling steam. Anything, I suspect, that provides any sort of back pressure will stop the steamslayer from working.

Good thinking, though. I suspect we'll solve this if enough people are putting their minds to it.

What about the double-drain idea. Well, for those of us that brew in the garage. This wouldn't work in a house since the exit of the bucket would go into a floor drain, leaving that exposed to the atmosphere in the house....

we could:
Drain the waste water from the condenser into a homer bucket with a hole in the lid to insert a hose, leaving an air-gap. Put a bulkhead fitting on it if you choose to make sure there's no leaks.
Then 1/4 the way up from the bottom put an output in the side of bucket with a hose running outside from there under the garage door to the outside.

Once the waste water gets high enough, it'll flow out of the bucket and outside. Gotta make sure that the hose from the condenser is higher than the water level in the bucket though.

I'm not sure if there would be any type of vacuum problems with this. It's just an idea and I haven't tested to see if it would work.
The water trickles out of the bottom of the condenser pretty slowly for me that I "think" it would not overload the drain in the bucket - that it could keep up and not cause any vacuum problems.

 

[helterscelter]

What about the double-drain idea. Well, for those of us that brew in the garage. This wouldn't work in a house since the exit of the bucket would go into a floor drain, leaving that exposed to the atmosphere in the house....

we could:
Drain the waste water from the condenser into a homer bucket with a hole in the lid to insert a hose, leaving an air-gap. Put a bulkhead fitting on it if you choose to make sure there's no leaks.
Then 1/4 the way up from the bottom put an output in the side of bucket with a hose running outside from there under the garage door to the outside.

Once the waste water gets high enough, it'll flow out of the bucket and outside. Gotta make sure that the hose from the condenser is higher than the water level in the bucket though.

I'm not sure if there would be any type of vacuum problems with this. It's just an idea and I haven't tested to see if it would work.
The water trickles out of the bottom of the condenser pretty slowly for me that I "think" it would not overload the drain in the bucket - that it could keep up and not cause any vacuum problems.

View attachment 607275

Why couldn't you just run the output hose from the condenser directly out the door, instead of using a bucket?

 

[rkhanso]

Why couldn't you just run the output hose from the condenser directly out the door, instead of using a bucket?

That just doesn't work. I've tried it. I wish it did work.
It's either too long of a run to generate the vacuum, or maybe my floor isn't level or sloping down as it goes out and I lose the air gap. I lose suction/vacuum and the condenser stops working.

 

[maisch]

I'm afraid this won't work. If you terminate the effluent hose in water, it ceases to work in pulling steam. Anything, I suspect, that provides any sort of back pressure will stop the steamslayer from working.

Good thinking, though. I suspect we'll solve this if enough people are putting their minds to it.

The effluent hose isn't terminated in water. Basically, you just have a canister of bleach soaked carbon hanging off the end of the effluent hose or additional extension pipe attached directly to the steam condenser unit. The only back pressure would be if the condensate wouldn't/couldn't flow through the carbon fast enough.

Say for instance you need 2" of bleach soaked carbon in a 1.5" TC extension for 1 hours worth of DMS. 1 - 2" shouldn't be too much for gravity to flow through. Even if you need 5" for an hours worth of DMS it should still soak through fast enough.

 

[RidleyRumpus]

I am finding it hard to find any instructions or a bom for this great idea, can someone please point me in the right direction?

Being in the UK carriage costs are putting me off purchasing a ready made one.

 

[ancientmariner52]

I am finding it hard to find any instructions or a bom for this great idea, can someone please point me in the right direction?

Being in the UK carriage costs are putting me off purchasing a ready made one.

If you start with BrunDog's post #1 I think you'll find what you need. Maybe not the actual components that would be available in UK, but certainly enough info to design your own system. Good luck!