Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[bmwguy]

Why would there be a difference in the water volume? You are just catching the condensate a different way. Instead of the condensate going out the exhaust fan, it's drawn down the tube by the vacuum created when the steam is condensed by the water jet.

 

[crane]

Why would there be a difference in the water volume? You are just catching the condensate a different way. Instead of the condensate going out the exhaust fan, it's drawn down the tube by the vacuum created when the steam is condensed by the water jet.

When you have the lid on and the condenser going, you have to turn the heat source down significantly to achieve the same boil intensity. For example I used to run my heating element at 65% duty cycle without the condenser. Now I am using 25% duty cycle and I am still getting a gentle rolling boil like I was before, but less volume boiled off over the course of an hour. For me I am using about a half gallon less preboil volume than before to achieve the same post boil volume.

 

[Jhamp]

I would like to do this for a 1BBL system. I have a 40 gallon boil kettle and I will be using a domed lid the system is like SS Brewtech but I fabricated the system. Would a single sprayer work or would I need more than one. What about the condenser size 1.5”, 2” 2.5”. Let me know I would like to add this feature so I wouldn’t need ventilation.

 

[mongoose33]

I would like to do this for a 1BBL system. I have a 40 gallon boil kettle and I will be using a domed lid the system is like SS Brewtech but I fabricated the system. Would a single sprayer work or would I need more than one. What about the condenser size 1.5”, 2” 2.5”. Let me know I would like to add this feature so I wouldn’t need ventilation.

I don't have a 1-barrel system so the below is me just trying to parse the problem. Remember that free advice is sometimes worth what you paid for it.

I've done the 1.5" steam slayer BobbyM sells on a 10-gallon system and it worked fine for me. I'd think you'd want to go at least to 2" diameter on a 1-barrel system. The area of the opening for the 1.5" is 1.767"; for the 2" it's 3.14", or nearly double the capacity.

How much of a sprayer? I'd still think a single one would do, but you might want to go up to 12 gph or even 15 gph. I'm using the 9 gph sprayer. Some of this also has to do with how vigorous a boil you intend to have. If it's just a simmer, not a lot of load; if it's vigorous, then much more demand for cooling.

 

[WesBrew]

if applied to a 5-10 gallon system (15 gallon pot) is there any performance difference using the 2" version over the 1.5" version. more boil off? or is that more to do with the spray nozzle? the opening will have to be drilled by me so I can use whichever.

 

[Bohern]

if applied to a 5-10 gallon system (15 gallon pot) is there any performance difference using the 2" version over the 1.5" version. more boil off? or is that more to do with the spray nozzle? the opening will have to be drilled by me so I can use whichever.

I asked this same question and here is what I will share with you. After talking to a few here the 2" version with the 1.5" adapter (free if you buy the 2" from Bobby) gives you the best of both worlds. The 2" should work better on a 15G to 20G pot. After speaking with Bobby from BrewHardware that was the direction I went. so far so good.

 

[WesBrew]

ok, so drill the pot for 1.5" weldless bulkhead, use the 2" version with an adapter/reducer to connect the larger steam slayer? I didn't see the 2" version at brew hardware. I'll have to look again.

 

[Bohern]

ok, so drill the pot for 1.5" weldless bulkhead, use the 2" version with an adapter/reducer to connect the larger steam slayer? I didn't see the 2" version at brew hardware. I'll have to look again.

Call and talk to Bobby, he was a big help to me. Also he is on this forum as well. He can walk you though it for sure.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's out of stock. Long story short, the 2" sold way faster while the 1.5 was out so my predictive reordering was all screwed up. I'm working on another potential design that uses 1.5" TC as the conduit from the kettle but where it hits a 3" spray chamber to maximize cooling efficiency.

 

[WesBrew]

It's out of stock. Long story short, the 2" sold way faster while the 1.5 was out so my predictive reordering was all screwed up. I'm working on another potential design that uses 1.5" TC as the conduit from the kettle but where it hits a 3" spray chamber to maximize cooling efficiency.

Is there something to using 1.5tc with a bigger spray chamber or is it that most people already have a 1.5tc ?

 

[BrunDog]

The bigger the chamber (to a point), the better mixing of spray water with steam, causing the steam's phase change. Said it multiple times above: spraying water up against the walls of the chamber is basically wasted water.

 

[WesBrew]

The bigger the chamber (to a point), the better mixing of spray water with steam, causing the steam's phase change. Said it multiple times above: spraying water up against the walls of the chamber is basically wasted water.

I understood that. my question was about the diameter of the hole in the pot and why it was better to have it smaller than the spray chamber. (from post 1366)

 

[cbier60]

I can also say that I've been using a 1.5" condenser for almost 2 years with my 20G Spike kettle and the 6 gph nozzle (with relatively high municipal water pressure), and it has worked excellently. 2" may be better, but 1.5" is definitely more than adequate.

 

[Bobby_M]

I understood that. my question was about the diameter of the hole in the pot and why it was better to have it smaller than the spray chamber. (from post 1366)

It's just that the 1.5" TC port is plenty of cross section to pull the steam through but the larger chamber allows the spray cone to fan out more before it cascades down the sides. More cooling with the same amount of water use. Larger kettle ports would just serve to reduce the usable vertical kettle height for no benefit.

 

[WesBrew]

It's just that the 1.5" TC port is plenty of cross section to pull the steam through but the larger chamber allows the spray cone to fan out more before it cascades down the sides. More cooling with the same amount of water use. Larger kettle ports would just serve to reduce the usable vertical kettle height for no benefit.

THANKS! I'll plan for a 1.5 opening.

 

[Bohern]

Exactly what I did as well!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

It's just that the 1.5" TC port is plenty of cross section to pull the steam through but the larger chamber allows the spray cone to fan out more before it cascades down the sides. More cooling with the same amount of water use. Larger kettle ports would just serve to reduce the usable vertical kettle height for no benefit.

Bobby, is there any way those that have already purchased the 1.5 " system can upgrade at a lower cost by returning the replaced parts?

 

[Bobby_M]

Bobby, is there any way those that have already purchased the 1.5 " system can upgrade at a lower cost by returning the replaced parts?

That's something I can consider when I have the parts. There really won't be a lot of crossover since it will be a new body and new cap (clamp and gasket). The sprayer and incoming plumbing parts are a relatively low cost. I'll post some real world performance comparisons so you can make an informed choice about any upgrade necessity. To be completely clear, the full 1.5 TC unit works a treat for me and so many others up to half barrel.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

That's something I can consider when I have the parts. There really won't be a lot of crossover since it will be a new body and new cap (clamp and gasket). The sprayer and incoming plumbing parts are a relatively low cost. I'll post some real world performance comparisons so you can make an informed choice about any upgrade necessity. To be completely clear, the full 1.5 TC unit works a treat for me and so many others up to half barrel.

What is your evaporation rate? I have 27 gal kettles with a hight to width ratio of close to 1:1. After adding the steam Slayer my system went from about 14% to 5% evaporation rate.

 

[Imhoppy]

Interesting thread here that got me thinking. Was wondering if anyone has considered making/modifying some kind of an "extender ring" that could be installed between the lid and the brew kettle, assuming one did not want to drill a hole in their kettle. Maybe a "tight fit" in the kettle so it is solidly secured. The hole can then be made in the extender. A counterweight on the other side might be needed too, depending on the design, but might be too bulky and not adhering to the "KISS" way of thinking (aka, keep it simple stupid). The link gives an idea of what this extender may look like, although in concept only. Thoughts?
https://images.app.goo.gl/8ZBWEJvrbL7fJ6hC7

 

[day_trippr]

That's a hella lot of interfacing to try to seal - on my 20g kettles that would mean almost 10 linear feet of combined seams (top and bottom edges) to hold tight enough for the slayer to actually work. Seems like a big ask...

Cheers!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Interesting thread here that got me thinking. Was wondering if anyone has considered making/modifying some kind of an "extender ring" that could be installed between the lid and the brew kettle, assuming one did not want to drill a hole in their kettle. Maybe a "tight fit" in the kettle so it is solidly secured. The hole can then be made in the extender. A counterweight on the other side might be needed too, depending on the design, but might be too bulky and not adhering to the "KISS" way of thinking (aka, keep it simple stupid). The link gives an idea of what this extender may look like, although in concept only. Thoughts?
https://images.app.goo.gl/8ZBWEJvrbL7fJ6hC7

The main problem I see is there are so many different size kettles not to mention lip configurations.

 

[Bobby_M]

As opposed to the elbow through the lid solution?

 

[BrunDog]

I understand the hesitance to put a hole in the kettle but if you already do that fornelements, drains, etc. then there shouldn’t be much concern.

 

[Belgian Son]

Thought I'd share my take on a steam condenser built from a cocktail shaker, maximizing the volume while keeping the cost down. Silver soldered the large lid interface, but keeping the smaller friction fit cap. Much lighter weight than using tri-clamps too.

 

[crane]

Thought I'd share my take on a steam condenser built from a cocktail shaker, maximizing the volume while keeping the cost down. Silver soldered the large lid interface, but keeping the smaller friction fit cap. Much lighter weight than using tri-clamps too.View attachment 650323 View attachment 650324

I love it. Although I personally prefer mine stirred not shaken.

 

[BrunDog]

Pretty smart!

 

[Bobby_M]

That is very cool. I've been experimenting with lighter weight containers for the larger spray pattern to avoid the bulk and weight of 3" TC parts. My biggest concern about leveraging containers like that is corrosion resistance. Most of that stuff is not made from 304 or 316 stainless. Any spot rusting inside?

 

[Belgian Son]

That is very cool. I've been experimenting with lighter weight containers for the larger spray pattern to avoid the bulk and weight of 3" TC parts. My biggest concern about leveraging containers like that is corrosion resistance. Most of that stuff is not made from 304 or 316 stainless. Any spot rusting inside?

Have not seen any rusting yet. Been very pleased with the performance.

 

[matt_m]

I'll admit I'm pretty terrified of drilling into my custom Spike kettle. Should have ordered it with the top port but they couldn't put it closer than 2" down which I later read would have been fine.

Question on that. @Bobby_M recommends a 40mm hole saw for the 1.5" TC bulkhead. Seems a tiny bit small. Is that because you want the fitting to thread into the wall a bit?

 

[Bobby_M]

Its more related to the fact that the agressive teeth on the bits make a slightly rough hole that needs deburring. That takes it to the final hole size needed. Nothing is quite as bad as making the hole too big.

The lid is always an option. Its slightly less catostrophic if that goes south. You can also ship the lid to me for ferrule welding.

Bobby

I'll admit I'm pretty terrified of drilling into my custom Spike kettle. Should have ordered it with the top port but they couldn't put it closer than 2" down which I later read would have been fine.

Question on that. @Bobby_M recommends a 40mm hole saw for the 1.5" TC bulkhead. Seems a tiny bit small. Is that because you want the fitting to thread into the wall a bit?

 

[bmwguy]

When you have the lid on and the condenser going, you have to turn the heat source down significantly to achieve the same boil intensity. For example I used to run my heating element at 65% duty cycle without the condenser. Now I am using 25% duty cycle and I am still getting a gentle rolling boil like I was before, but less volume boiled off over the course of an hour. For me I am using about a half gallon less preboil volume than before to achieve the same post boil volume.

If you're boiling off 1 gallon of water doesn't matter if it's boiled hard or soft still the same amount of steam.

 

[BrunDog]

I think the point is you have to turn the power input way down since that heat doesn't escape as much. But it is true that the boil-off rate is less. I think this is just the function of a chamber that is filled with steam - there is no dry air backfilling the rising steam, creating a path for more evaporation. It's a good thing IMO, unless you are counting on boiling off a lot of liquid to bump your OG.

 

[Bobby_M]

Agree, just accept the lower boil off rate and integrate that into your process. If that means a slightly lower efficiency, scale up to meet the recipe numbers.

 

[WesBrew]

You could certainly do that. I also suspect that we are wasting a lot of condensing ability with the spray water not completely getting mixed with the steam. At some point the spray reaches the side wall of the tube, rendering it ineffective to condense and remove heat.

I might have missed it somewhere while skimming; but if this the case is it more effective to use a spray nozzle with a narrower spray pattern, particularly if your only spray chamber option is 1.5" ?

 

[BrunDog]

If your chamber is narrow, then yes it would be better to use a narrow spray... say 60 degrees.

 

[Gozie Boy]

I've got a 20 gal. Spike BK to which I've added a home-built 2" TC condenser system, with 9gph sprayer. It has worked wonders on all my brews. Yesterday I measured and had only a 0.5 gal./hr boil off (less than half of what I had before). I am using a 5500W element, and stopped reducing power at 42%. Probably could have gone lower (the effluent was only luke warm, of course affected by the large spray rate), but I got tired of repeatedly looking inside to ensure that things were still boiling. I am pretty sure that I could do as well with a 6 gph nozzle, and probably a 1.5" system. (I'm also curious about the efficiency of the fog-type nozzle, which I think would have even better heat exchange characteristics to a spray nozzle). But it works and works very well, so I am now focused on bigger fish in my brewing efforts.

Thanks again to BrunDog and his development and promotion of this terrific solution! It has saved me probably $2500 in a SS hood and vent system (including another hole in my roof!), not to mention all the bulk and maintenance that goes with it. Game changer for steam management.

 

[aeviaanah]

Are there benefits to a reduced boil off rate?

 

[day_trippr]

If you like your beer color as light as possible, there's one benefit.
Down side is it could reduce efficiency...

Cheers!

 

[aeviaanah]

If you like your beer color as light as possible, there's one benefit.
Down side is it could reduce efficiency...

Cheers!

If brewing dark beers are there any benefits?

How does it reduce efficiency? Perhaps a lower sparge amount since preboil is lower?