Bochet Mead (burnt mead)

[Pith]

I have some cool ideas for my birthday tipple in August, based on combining techniques associated with bochet and stout/porter.

1. A stout/porter-inspired Bochet: For the "roasted barley" aspect, you'd blacken a small amount of honey until it was really black and just beginning to degrade into pure carbon, then pour it into a separate vessel. For the "chocolate malt" aspect, you'd cook a larger portion of honey until it was quite black indeed but not as black as the first portion, then for the "caramel malt" caramelise an even larger portion of honey until deep red or whatever, and use a large amount of regular honey (a dark one like buckwheat), uncaramelised, to bulk out the fermentables, then add water to between stout and mead OG. Not sure what you'd do about mouthfeel, though. It wouldn't taste much like stout/porter, but it'd be interesting I think.

2. You could do similar to above, making a specialty-grain stout/porter recipe but by substituting all the extract for caramelised and/or non-caramelised honey. The grains would give the burnt colour and flavour so you could play with different levels of honey caramelisation.

3. You could make a bochet like has been discussed in this thread but add espresso coffee (removing the crema which contains oils) or coffee beans, as well as cocoa, then rack onto them in secondary and off them into tertiary when satisfied.

You could, of course, hop any of the above with Fuggles or similar, or whatever you wanted. Basically the idea of this is to have something that a) tastes a bit like stout/porter, b) satisfies my human need for experimentation, and c) is low enough abv that it will age enough by August.

Thoughts?

 

[Pith]

Also, using only burnt honey might give an overwhelming amount of the one flavour and not much else. You could get a more complex flavour if you divided the fermentables up, maybe something like this:

1 part blackened wildflower honey
2 part caramelised wildflower honey
4 part non-caramelised varietal honey
2 part maple syrup or golden syrup (yes I know they're different products, but either could work)
1 part black treacle/molasses

So thats 4 parts of things that might give burnt/caramel/toffee flavours, and 6 parts of things that won't. 6 parts are honey based, 4 parts are refined cane sugar products (2 if using maple). Omit whatever you like if you think the flavour would be too busy. I'd ferment it at mead strength, then add water after aging in tertiary for a couple of months if I think it needs it.

 

[garlicbee]

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[garlicbee]

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[Machalel]

I'm thinking of doing a "layered" bochet similar to this (something like a ratio 1:1:1:3 of raw, amber, dark, black), but I dont think it will be like a stout (just a feeling, i could be wrong).

Your best bet is probably going for a braggot, which is similar to your number 2 option.

 

[Pith]

Still beating around the bush getting this started. I'm thinking of doing a 1 gal (actually 5litres) batch with a small amount of roasted barley (still no idea how much), some roasted nuts (maybe pecans, almonds or pine nuts) and perhaps some ginger. I am willing to sacrifice the nuts if you think it would be a bad idea.

What boil times versus final gravities have you guys gotten?

 

[biochemedic]

Still beating around the bush getting this started. I'm thinking of doing a 1 gal (actually 5litres) batch with a small amount of roasted barley (still no idea how much), some roasted nuts (maybe pecans, almonds or pine nuts) and perhaps some ginger. I am willing to sacrifice the nuts if you think it would be a bad idea.

What boil times versus final gravities have you guys gotten?

I really like all the ideas you posted (including the two prior posts a few days ago...although I have to say, your visualization of the caramelized honey equivalent of roasted barley sounds more like black patent malt to me...).

If you were to use actual roasted barley in a mead, you could consider doing a cold steeping technique with would give you all the flavor and color without extracting any astringency/tannins. Not that the tannins would necessarily be a bad thing, but it give you another way to play with the flavors. Likewise, with coffee...I actually have had really nice results with a coffee oatmeal stout adding cold steeped coffee after fermentation finishes.

The roasted nuts idea is also interesting...one of the downsides I've found using nuts in beer is that the oils lend a very odd mouthfeel for a beer, and also often kill any hope of having good head retention. I've thought in the past that this might not be as big of an issue in mead, especially if you're planning a still mead anyway. If you did the nuts, I'd chop them really fine, and then add them in a muslin bag (to contain the mess) after primary finishes going, and before any subsequent rackings. I'd also plan for a longer than average aging time (which may not be good for your current circumstance, planning for a drinkable beverage in August) as other oily things I've fermented (like cocoa powder) seem to benefit from longer than average aging.

Not sure about the ginger...for some reason I can't seem to mentally taste how ginger would meld with the roasted/caramelized flavors of a bochet. Sounds worthy of an experiment, and I would, for sure, be very willing to try a sample!

Your final question also raises another very interesting question: can you quantify the amount of unfermentable compounds created by the length of the boil. I think this could also be worthy of an experiment...you could do five 1 gal batches:
1) regular, unboiled honey
2) boiled 30 min
3) boiled 60 min
4) boiled 90 min
5) boiled 120 min

I think the comparison of final gravity would be pretty interesting, and certainly it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a side-by-side taste comparison.

You would certainly have to control your fermentation variables, and also the heat level of the boil (which I think would be the biggest problem with the experiment...it would be hard to say that the boils were equivalent, although regardless of that I think you'd still be able to get the trend, just not an accurate model for prediction).

 

[Pith]

The problem with cold steeping lies in the comparative subtleness of the final product. I imagine the sweet caramel flavour of Bochet would be very strong, so the intensity and astringency of hot steeping would probably not go astray at all. Not to mention, it's a lot quicker and requires a lot less grain.

Also, I probably won't actually use ginger, as I'm sure that the caramel and nut will provide enough complexity to keep me interested anyway. Same deal with coffee. I might try one or the other next batch, though.

As for the oil in nuts, I would counteract the problem by boiling the nuts with the grain, all in a bag, then letting it cool and skimming the oils off the surface. I'd use this water for cooling the honey as per the original recipe. It's just a matter of deciding which nuts to use. Perhaps a combination? Any recommendation pertaining to or beyond the ones I mentioned?

As for your experiment, I would do it if I had the resources, time, space, and money, and if I was that fanatic about the taste of Bochet, which I have yet to actually try. I will probably boil this honey to a very deep red, just to be a little bit conservative, and judge the results for my future experiments.

EDIT: just went to the grocery store. I had no idea how much fat was in nuts! The lowest I could find, almonds, was 50 percent fat; pecans were far more. Only a small amount was saturated fat though. I'm worried that there will be some types of fats that will stay in the must without precipitating out during cooling. I probably won't do nuts after all. Maybe I'll do 15L (4gal) of regular, deep red Bochet, then rack 5L onto apples and cinnamon, 5L onto banana and nutmeg, and 5L onto a lot of chocolate malt to cold steep in secondary. Not sure how much, though. I'll have to ask the guy at the LHBS.

 

[Pith]

Bump. I know you've been posting elsewhere, Dave.

 

[Goblet]

If you don't mind peanuts, you could try a powdered peanut butter, like PB2. It has most (but not all) of the fat removed. Kind of expensive though. Maybe there are similar products for other nuts as well.

Also, I recently made a 5 gallon bochet from Almond Honey. It think the nutty flavor did okay getting through all of the caramelization. Anyway, I used about 16 lbs of honey, but lost at least a quart to skimming the scum while the honey heated up. I think there was a fair amount of wax and such in there, since it was the bottom of the bucket. I'm planning to split the batch at secondary and add grilled pineapple to half. Sounds tasty anyway.

Also, probably best to wear safety glasses and leather gloves, and have a spray bottle of cold water on hand.

 

[Pith]

Let us know how it goes. Sounds fantastic.

 

[Plan9]

I made a batch of this today.

10 pounds of clover honey cooked down until it looked like milk chocolate, and and puffs of smoke instead of steam.
I don't know the exact amount of water I added, but I filled a 3 gallon better bottle.

After stirring it with a drill stirrer I got an OG reading of 1.124
That seems high, so it could be a false reading based on the sugars not mixing all the way.

I added yeast nutrients, and fermax with the Pastuer Champagne yeast.

The hydro sample tasted like toasted marshmallows.

Depending on how this tastes later, I'm considering adding some vanilla bean soaked in a small amount of bourbon. Only time will tell.

I did this outside on a low flame, and it was relatively pain free. Like everyone says though, be careful when adding water to the pot!

 

[wolfstar]

Started a 3 gallon batch yesterday.

9 pounds raw wild honey (free from my neighbors farm)
2.25 gallons filtered well water
Wyeast 4184

Boiled the honey to a dark colour, almost like blackstrap molasses. Added 1 gallon of water and simmered until redisolved. Cooled to 65*, added top off water and pitched at 62*.

Flavour was of toasted marshmallows, toffee, Wurthers Origional (sort of butterey caramel).

My drip plate for my stir spoon ended up with hard honey candy on it after the honey cooled...

its a bubblin slow as I type

After doing this though? I am wondering where else in the kitchen I can use caramelized honey? BBQ sauces, glazes, Creme Brulee?

 

[Pith]

All of those things. I think a barbecue sauce made with caramelised honey, apple cider vinegar, and slowroasted tomatoes would be fantastic.

 

[TheBrewingMedic]

Leap year bochet (cacao/vanilla)....6 weeks later, 3 hydro readings of 1.012, racked and ready to clear and bulk age for awhile.....


Sorry the picture isn't better, I couldn't seem to get the light to hit it good to get a picture that does the amazing color justice

 

[Pith]

Looks very nice. Did you taste it? How long did you cook the honey for, how much nutrient did you use and what yeast did you use?

 

[TheBrewingMedic]

I did taste it, it starts with a very mild sweetness (OG 1.105 dropped to 1.012) then the dark caramel or darkly toasted marshmallow, then the chocolate and vanilla are there but the caramelly flavor still masks it but it mellows out a little ever sample I've taken so its all melding very nicely.

I boiled it for one hour, checking a drop on a white paper plate every 15 min til it was the color I wanted, which was a deep dark near black brown, I didn't wait for puffs of smoke from the bubbles I preferred going by the color.

I used rehydrated D47, I use a super low gravity nutrient enriched rehydration process, always have good luck with it.

I didn't step feed, besides the goferm used in the rehydration it also got 1 healthy tsp of nutrients added to the must while still warm and vigorously whisked in to start the aeration process before moving to carboy and pitching

 

[huesmann]

Pretty color. Take a pic without a screen behind it next time!

 

[TheBrewingMedic]

It was cold out and I was being lazy otherwise I would have gone outside and let the morning sun hit it

 

[NJBlah]

So I am attempting to make this today. I have a few meads under my belt so I relativily know what I'm doing, I just want some pointers on my recipe for this.

1 Gallon Batch:
4 Pounds of Clover Honey (Too much honey? Would 3 be better?)
Yeast will be K1-V1116
And Yeast Nutrient

Does this all sound fine?

 

[Arpolis]

With my Bochet I used a yeast known to ferment to at least 16% ABV but I got nowhere near that. I used 3.5lb of clover honey and my ending gravity was 1.28. Now I only used boiled bread yeast, crushed B6 pill and herbal tea for nutrients but with time is should have fermented more. I think the caramelization process complicates some of the sugars so they are not easily fermentable. Long answer for, I would suggest less honey.

 

[huesmann]

Are you sure you don't mean 1.028?

 

[Arpolis]

Are you sure you don't mean 1.028?

LOL I am sorry, yes 1.028

 

[Meadrol]

Daggone that seems like a LOT of yeast for a 5 gallon batch! 8 packets?? If Bargain Fittings is still around I'd like to know if he added that much; I'd like to replicate what he did as closely as possible with the Montrachet and EC-1118 yeasts.

 

[BargainFittings]

Yes I did in fact use that much yeast. I've done several 5 gallon batches and have pitched single strains in subsequent batches and had very similar results each time.

The official recipe from 2008 Nov/Dec Zymurgy page 46. Article starts on page 45 - "Mead: Party Like its 1949"

18.5 lb light honey
4.0 g yeast extract or yeast nutrient
0.1 g zinc fortified yeast as nutrient
3 Tablespoon yeast (40g) dried champagne or mead yeast (Prise de Mousse recommended)

Target original gravity 1.130 - 1.138
Approx Final Gravity 1.028-1.038
Alcohol 14 to 15% by volume

Add honey to pot. Do not add water. Gently boil the honey until dark and tastes caramelized.

Add 1 gallon of water, zinc fortified yeast and blend into the "scorched honey" Stir until dissolved well.
CAREFULLY. ITS BEST TO LET THE HONEY COOL DOWN ALOT BEFORE ADDING WATER

Blend hot honey and water mixture to 2 gallons of cold water and add to your primary.

Top up to 5 gallons total volume. Aerate extremely well and add dissolved yeast nutrient (yeast extract)

When temp is below 80 F add re hydrated yeast. Ferment between 70-75 F

It may take 3 weeks to 3 months to finish primary.

Rack and transfer to secondary. Store at cooler temperatures Rack off sediment after six months to a year. Bottle when clear and all fermentation ceased. Cork in wine bottles for long term aging.

 

[Meadrol]

Thanks Wayne, I appreciate it!

 

[Latka]

We whipped up 2 gallons back in (October / November?) 2011. 10 pounds of honey, and I believe we used one 5g packet of Montrachet each. We may have taken the honey a little too far, as we were definitely getting whisps of black smoke at the end from the bubbles.

Keep the heat so that you're just at a boil and you don't have to worry about honey napalm. We were wearing latex shop gloves just to keep the splatter off our hands while we stirred. Now we've got a 42" mash paddle, so that shouldn't be an issue anymore. When you add the water, do it S-L-O-W-L-Y and you won't have the super 7th grade science fair volcano project.

My mead went through a flood and everything, so I was just happy that it survived to be tasted. Never moved it to secondary, but after reading and seeing pictures from other folks it looks like it could have done well with that. Ours is very dark. I'd say it's a shade or two lighter than an Imperial Stout we have. Very cool flavor though. Very complex, as others have noted. I'm pretty amazed that this could come from honey, water, and yeast!

Plannning on a 5 gallon batch. Trying to decide if I should do the same recipe as the first time or if I want to fiddle with it... not sure yet.

Mead is fun!

 

[TheBrewingMedic]

Yes I did in fact use that much yeast. ....................................

3 Tablespoon yeast (40g) dried champagne or mead yeast (Prise de Mousse recommended)

Wow, some people jump all over the mention of using 10-15 grams in a 5 gallon batch, I'm still a light weight compared to this recipe lol.

 

[Pith]

Finally got around to doing this.

1. cooked up 4kg Australian honey to a deep golden amber; was too chicken to go all the way to deep burgundy or black like a lot of bochet makers seem to go. It took 80 minutes from cold to cooked on the stove at power 8 (it goes up to 10 and then "HI"). I wanted to preserve some of the floral character, but ended up with a scent very reminiscent of a eucalyptus-fuelled campfire, which I am very happy with, as it reminds me of the doofs I go to up in the Blue Mountains. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doof

I then cooled the honey by adding 10L of water (2.5 US gallons) and 1 tsp of yeast nutrient and will pitch some Wyeast 3787 dregs tonight for a bit of Belgian esters and phenols in the final product. The must looks quite dark in comparison to the streak of 80-minute cooked honey on my white plate though, so I'll take another photo when I transfer to secondary. It's approximately the colour of a Belgian dubbel has a rich caramel/toffee/butterscotch taste and a very slight roasty sharpness not unlike a porter.

 

[conpewter]

Got awesome reviews on my Bochet on Tuesday evening at the homebrewers forum. It has aged out all the hotness and now it is just caramel goodness, one of the few drinks that people got seconds of (though I warned them about the alcohol level) I may have to make this again sometime, though i have plenty left, it would be good to age it for a very long time.

Anyone else doing bottle wax for this? I have most of it in 12 oz bottles (the wife and I couldn't finish a wine bottle of this) so thinking of waxing over the caps to help keep oxidation out.