Bochet Mead (burnt mead)

[MarshmallowBlue]

Its hard for some people to go outside their box and change the flavor of the honey so dramtically. We bottle our first batch made in a pressure canner Saturday morning, its got a deep mahogony color, tastes like caremal and almost tastes like a good burbon and very smooth. Putting some up in splits so we dont have to share an entire bottle everytime someone stops by WVMJ

I can also imagine making one on a commercial 200-1000 (yeah he's getting a 1000 gallon tank last I heard) Gallon scale would be a logistics issue with honey expansion during cooking.

 

[WVMJ]

Whoa, not cracking on any meadmakers! THere is one commercial meadmaker making what they call darkened mead, not sure how they do it but its commercially available, at least if you are close to them! WVMJ

I can also imagine making one on a commercial 200-1000 (yeah he's getting a 1000 gallon tank last I heard) Gallon scale would be a logistics issue with honey expansion during cooking.

 

[WVMJ]

Yes, we have previously caramelized sweetened condensed milk to make milk caramel in a pressure canner so I knew it should probably work with honey in theory. One nice thing is the water stays in the honey so you dont have to add it back to get it to flow. I doesnt of course produce the "burnt" marshmellow flavor or smokeyness. We plan on doing one of those batches over a hot flame in a big pot to compare the taste differences. I have a feeling the pressure cooked ones are a bit smother caramel flavor while the fire burnt method has more of the campfire marshmellow. Fortunately both would be great.. WVMJ

So did the canning effectively caramelize the honey?

 

[Calvus]

The pressure canner works well. 80 min at 15psi. About 12lbs fits in 5 quart jars. The taste is toffee/caramel, a little toasted marshmallow, with dark coffee notes.

Oh and WVMJ. I did a batch of bananas also but only did water bath because I envisioned exploding lids. Glad I did though because when compressed in the jars, the bananas expanded exponentially. Didnt quite get that bananas foster I was after but it really enhanced the taste I thought. Let me know how pressure canning the nanners go if you puree them.

 

[huesmann]

Could I use a regular pressure cooker? Do you need to use jars?

 

[WVMJ]

Calvus, why did you think the bannana jars would explode? You just cooked them in the water bath, if you put them in the pressure canner it might have caramelized them some, I dont know, havent tried it yet, but whatever you put in the jar isnt going to explode in the canner, same pressure inside and outside.

Nice color on your Bochet honey.

WVMJ

 

[WVMJ]

I used some pint jars in a pressure cooker and it worked fine, added a trivet on the bottom of the pot to keep the jars off of the bottom. I would guess that just adding honey into a cooker without it being in a jar would possibly somehow seal the vent by caking on it layer by layer and then BOOM. Send us a picture of your ceiling. WVMJ

Could I use a regular pressure cooker? Do you need to use jars?

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

I used some pint jars in a pressure cooker and it worked fine, added a trivet on the bottom of the pot to keep the jars off of the bottom. I would guess that just adding honey into a cooker without it being in a jar would possibly somehow seal the vent by caking on it layer by layer and then BOOM. Send us a picture of your ceiling. WVMJ

I'm not the master of pressure cookers by any means. but when I heat up water in the tea kettle it gains volume as it heats up (water level rises). I'd imagine that honey heating expansion + expansion from pressure would lead to what WVMJ says.

 

[WVMJ]

That is just a guess on my part, but when you cook honey the proteins coagulate and clump up, I think that the protiens binding up and making a plug could be a real issue? Use jars, if any leaks out its just a little bit, not like putting it all in the pot loose. WVMJ

I'm not the master of pressure cookers by any means. but when I heat up water in the tea kettle it gains volume as it heats up (water level rises). I'd imagine that honey heating expansion + expansion from pressure would lead to what WVMJ says.

 

[huesmann]

How much water would you put in a pressure cooker around the pint jars? Also, do you need to seal the jars?

 

[WVMJ]

Sorry but not an expert on canners, yours should have some instructions on how much water to add, and yes seal the jars, I would use real canning lids and rings, very cheap. WVMJ

How much water would you put in a pressure cooker around the pint jars? Also, do you need to seal the jars?

 

[putout]

Finished bottling the bochet. Tastes like girls kissing. Going to have to make more.

 

[NotALamer]

I made one of these on Sunday with goldenrod honey and the aroma was still very apparent after cooking. I cooked it to about 345 degrees, it had been lightly smoking for a few minutes when I turned off the heat. It smelled amazing, I can't wait to see what it tastes like in six months. OG 1.107, one packet of D47 into a gallon jug.

 

[Arpolis]

Recently I cracked open a 26month old bottle of sweet Bochet made with raspberry zinger tea from celestial seasonings. It was good but way too sweet. It had stalled out right at 1.030 when I fermented it so I bottled as is and man is it thick. But soooooo smooth for nearly 12% ABV. I cut it half and half with carbonated water and it is real nice. Very earthy with an interesting caramel like sweetness. I think it is a great desert wine paired well with cake.

 

[NotALamer]

Is a bochet expected to be pretty thin? I notice it barely has any head retention if I shake up the fermenter. I'm guessing because most of the proteins were denatured during the cooking process.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

mead in general will have a very quickly receding head. If anything a bochet would be thicker because of the caramelized sugars.

 

[NotALamer]

This has far worse head retention than any traditional mead I've made. I haven't taken a large enough sample to evaluate the body.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Are you referring to the co2 coming up from fermentation? Or head, like the foam in the glass when pouring carbed beverages.

If the former, yeah I've noticed this too, but don't really know why

 

[NotALamer]

Well I think I pitched the yeast too hot because I checked the gravity after three days and it had only moved from 1.107 to 1.103 or so. I just pitched a new packet of D47 so we'll see what it looks like in a day or two.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Uh? Head retention in the fermenter? That's a new one to be sure. Some have more, some have less, mostly dependent on what kind of yeast you're using, some are low foam, some high etc. Depends on the yeast fermentation characteristics. As for mead having head ever? Not gonna happen without SOMETHING added to it e.g. barley or wheat malt. If it is a sparkling mead, think Champagne, not beer, or in the case of the person who made a cocktail (which is not a terrible idea!) a spritzer. Meadmaking is not like beer, save for yeast and time are involved, no mention of proteins should even be touched upon unless you're getting crazy on fermentation nutrients or working out a strange haze problem involving backsweetening or fruit.

EDIT: Also, you checked gravity after 3 days? Try checking it after a month, maybe two, or not at all until you're ready to bottle. Patience is required with mead, much more than beer or anything else. If you're one of those "it it ready yet?" kind of people who checks every day, learn some ambivalence and save yourself stress and heartbreak. I've had nightmares about fermentations before and lost too much sleep in the early days, now that I don't worry, I'm much happier, and the mead is much better for it.

 

[Sadcheese]

Greetings everyone, my first post here. Had some fun brewing a pretty standard 5 gallon mead with a friend a few years ago but hadn't yet tried my hand at it. For some reason the idea of a burnt mead inspired me to pony up for my own brew supplies. I also went for the 6 gallon carboys (I mean why not, right?). So maybe I should have learned what I was doing on 1 gallons, but a bit late for that.

Anyways I tried this one out and the process can be described, essentially, as utter hilarity. It was a rainy day and I have no sort of large vessel for outdoor honey barbecuing so I decided to do this on the stove top. After the first massive spillover filled the whole area with about a pound of honey, I separated everything into my three biggest soup pots. Then instead of having to maniacally stir one pot for 3 hours, I was stirring 3 pots for 3 hours. Needless to say my kids thought it was funny and my wife thought I was an idiot (but as she is a true lady she just implied this with facial expressions).

Anyways I aborted at about 2.5 hours when it was very dark but not super burnt. I understand that may make an imperfect product as I read all the reviews and damn-near-nuclear (but not totally nuclear) seems to be goal; unfortunately I had to cook dinner and clean up, so for those considering this I would plan on 5 hours to be safe. The color is great, though.. had a palette on a white plate and not sure why I didn't take a picture of it.

Now as I said I made mead with a friend before. But I basically was there to drink and pour stuff and he gave me some basic tips. What I never noticed is that the airlock requires water. I mean, it's called an airlock, not a water-lock, right? Ironic because in medicine I use something for a chest tube that uses a water seal that's basically the brewing equivalent of an airlock. Anyways, after a few nights of no action whatsoever (except an amazing foam) I realized my mistake and added some water and it went pop pop pop. Hopefully I didn't damn the project but from what I can tell it probably just helped the yeast colony explode and take over the universe.

The shot of the carboy is one month in. Still popping away, now about 6 seconds. From what I can glean from the forums, I'll wait until that quits to about once a minute and then shoot it to the secondary for a few months? Been trying to find some sort of rational or scientific explanation for when to rack and bottle but I can't seem to find one... Any guidance would be great and I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

 

[Paps]

? Been trying to find some sort of rational or scientific explanation for when to rack and bottle but I can't seem to find one... Any guidance would be great and I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

Your hydrometer reading will guide you when fermentation is done and it's time to rack/bottle. (read "buy a hydrometer")

 

[Sadcheese]

Thanks. Sorry forgot to post that OG was 1.10. Guess I'll wait till the bubbles die down and check again in a few weeks?

 

[WVMJ]

No harm leaving the water out of the airlock, in fact its better to not even use one at the start, just cover with a cloth. There are different levels of burntness, from mahogany red to tar, ALL are good, the range would be from caramel to burnt marshmallow and everywhere in between. You should have saved some for the kidds icecream. There are other methods, the crock pot is an easy one and a pressure cooker also works with canning jars. Did you add any nutrients? WVMJ

 

[Sadcheese]

Yep I used this recipe with 4g nutes. I didn't add the zinc although I considered dropping a dollop of butt cream (for my 2 year old). I also read through the other Bochet posts on the site and read through the top ones I could google. Really not that much out there that seems to be formulaic and reproducible. Contemplated adding some vanilla and other things but figured for number one it'd be nice to get an idea of what the base recipe is like. Of course 1 gallon now sounds like the perfect amount for that.

But then, if it turns out good, no doubt I'll be happy that I spent half an hour cleaning the stovetop.

The official recipe from 2008 Nov/Dec Zymurgy page 46. Article starts on page 45 - "Mead: Party Like its 1949"

18.5 lb light honey
4.0 g yeast extract or yeast nutrient
0.1 g zinc fortified yeast as nutrient
3 Tablespoon yeast (40g) dried champagne or mead yeast (Prise de Mousse recommended)

Target original gravity 1.130 - 1.138
Approx Final Gravity 1.028-1.038
Alcohol 14 to 15% by volume

Add honey to pot. Do not add water. Gently boil the honey until dark and tastes caramelized.

Add 1 gallon of water, zinc fortified yeast and blend into the "scorched honey" Stir until dissolved well.

Blend hot honey and water mixture to 2 gallons of cold water and add to your primary.

Top up to 5 gallons total volume. Aerate extremely well and add dissolved yeast nutrient (yeast extract)

When temp is below 80 F add re hydrated yeast. Ferment between 70-75 F

It may take 3 weeks to 3 months to finish primary.

Rack and transfer to secondary. Store at cooler temperatures Rack off sediment after six months to a year. Bottle when clear and all fermentation ceased. Cork in wine bottles for long term aging.

 

[WVMJ]

My beek mentor filling a kettle with honey for a bochet

 

[biochemedic]

Oh, sure, get someone else's equipment all sticky! Actually that's pretty brilliant to do this at a BOP place where they have a bigger boil size!

 

[WVMJ]

Keep one going with hot water, makes cleanup very very easy. People came in off of the road to see what that wonderful smell was, 5 gal of honey will try to come out of that kettle. I have to thank James who had just taken over the Flying Barrel for letting us use his kettles, it got scary but he let us burn it to the end with smoke puffing out the top! WVMJ

 

[LostBoyScout]

Inspired by this thread, I made my first bochet today. Just 1 gallon. So far so good!

http://www.sandboxbeer.com/2015/10/31/batch-12-winter-bochet-burnt-mead/

 

[Paps]

Keep one going with hot water, makes cleanup very very easy.

This style definately makes people think "Oh **** i just ruined my kettle!"
But after you add the hot water back to it all the `goo` just gets reabsorbed/dissolved back into the water solution. Clean up is MUCH easier than you would think.....especially when it looks like you've got molten lava goo all over your kettle.

Word to the wise for those about to try this, there are dangers.
1 - every bee in a 5 mile radius WILL find you....if you are allergic to them perhaps best to keep this one inside.
2 - boiling honey swells up in size GREATLY.....whatever size boiling pot you need.....use one triple that size.
3 - when you add water near the end, DO NOT USE COLD WATER as it will spatter violently. Use hot water and pour in SLOWLY.
4 - you will have to sir this stuff nonstop. Use a wooden spoon with a lengthy handle or a stainless one with a handle that wont get `burn your hands hot`
5 - best to wear long sleeves and not shorts as honey sometimes may spatter out of the kettle.....this stuff is like napalm on your skin....keep your skin covered.

Hope this helps.

 

[WVMJ]

You do NOT need to stir it all the time (edit-if you use the right amt of honey in a big enough pot but nobody has found a big enough pot yet), once it gets going its selfstirring, I also think we can let it cool a little bit before adding back any hot water to liquify it to reduce the water exploding out in steam. WVMJ

 

[Sadcheese]

I like the idea of using a slow cooker. If it cooks slow enough that it won't explode then you could possibly get away with much less of a hassle.

Okay so I tried a 1 gallon batch using a slow cooker for the honey. Way, way, way, way easier. I used a standard 4.5 Quart Crock Pot and slow cooked the honey on High for 8 hours. It ended up about equivalent to doing it over the stove for 2.5h. The max height that it got was much less than when done on the stove, but it still expanded some. I skimmed the proteins off the top near the end, let it roll a bit longer, and then added two quarts to the whole Crock pot. With some stirring this dissolved the honey. Then I unplugged it and waited until it cooled to transfer out. Tasted like caramel marshmallow.

Not sure if it's the same effect but it certainly looked/tasted that way. I only used 3 pounds of honey so not sure what the max would be for this method, but I highly doubt 20 pounds would effectively work without overflowing..

 

[Paps]

You do NOT need to stir it all the time,

WHen i made it if i stopped stirring for more than 5 seconds it was going over the top and making a mess, so yes,you do need to stir it nonstop.
Maybe not if you have a gargantuan brewpot but the 10 gallon one i used wasn't gunna hold that honey in without constant stirring to keep it from over expanding.

 

[WVMJ]

I guess you have to match the amount of honey to the pot Reading the instructions on making caramel from cooks they get it going and stop stirring but they probably dont have as much protein in their sugar solution as honey does which makes if more foamy? When it got to the top of the kettle we hosed the side off with cold water, I guess we should consider that stirring almost. WVMJ

 

[biochemedic]

This style definately makes people think "Oh **** i just ruined my kettle!"
But after you add the hot water back to it all the `goo` just gets reabsorbed/dissolved back into the water solution. Clean up is MUCH easier than you would think.....especially when it looks like you've got molten lava goo all over your kettle.

Word to the wise for those about to try this, there are dangers.
1 - every bee in a 5 mile radius WILL find you....if you are allergic to them perhaps best to keep this one inside.
2 - boiling honey swells up in size GREATLY.....whatever size boiling pot you need.....use one triple that size.
3 - when you add water near the end, DO NOT USE COLD WATER as it will spatter violently. Use hot water and pour in SLOWLY.
4 - you will have to sir this stuff nonstop. Use a wooden spoon with a lengthy handle or a stainless one with a handle that wont get `burn your hands hot`
5 - best to wear long sleeves and not shorts as honey sometimes may spatter out of the kettle.....this stuff is like napalm on your skin....keep your skin covered.

Hope this helps.

A HUGE +1 to everything Paps said...

Re: 1 - Wintertime helps, if you do have to brew outdoors...
Re: 4 - I also noted that once it reached a certain point I could stir intermittently, but I would NEVER leave this brew unattended like I do once I get a beer boil going and stabilized!
Re: 5 - Absolutely like napalm!!! ...sticks and burns like you wouldn't believe... I got a couple of proximal fingers and the top of my hand pretty good once. Shoes, pants, long sleeve shirt, and some sort of potholder glove are HIGHLY recommended whenever you are within a couple of feet of these boils once they start!

 

[WVMJ]

Welders gloves and a full face shield! WVMJ

 

[biochemedic]

Welders gloves and a full face shield! WVMJ

Yeah, it's funny...I had thought about face protection as well after my last post... Could happen...that boil --> Bloop! can be unpredictable when it's molten honey!

 

[BargainFittings]

I have found you can heat the honey to the point it boils and then back off on the heat until it is barely making a bubble fountain and you don't have to stir it any more.

This can be difficult to maintain on a gas rig if you have a cross wind.
I have gone back to making this in the kitchen on the electric stove and the same applies.

The main reason for going back inside is all the bees landing in the boiling honey and dying.

In any case I never walk away from it as it does still surge a bit but never to the top of the kettle.

 

[Sadcheese]

Has anybody tried oaking a basic bochet? Any suggestions?

I have six gallons heading to secondary on some vanilla and was thinking of adding some oak to it.. I have a couple medium American spirals..

 

[Indiana Red]

Did a 3 Gal batch of this today. 10# of standard clover honey from Costco for about $27
It was a little over an inch deep in my 10 Gal kettle and at a boil it was nearly half way up the sides.
I warmed up the honey, still in the plastic jugs, in a pot of hot water for nearly an hour as I got my hardware together and set up.
Took 10 min to come to a boil and I backed off the heat a bit and it maintained a steady slow foaming rolling boil that I didn't feel I needed to watch every second.
I took a few drip samples along the way and at about 35 min it was a very dark amber mahogany and I called it good.
Yes, roasted marshmallows, caramel, a little milk chocolate all in the aromas. After plenty of research and seeing the classic YT video, I wasn't too ken on running it all the way down to black tar
Very slowly poured 2 qts of water and by the time that was in, I could add the next gallon or so which brought me up to my 3G batch size.
Its in the carboy now cooling a bit more and it looks darker than I thought.
I'll be going with Wyeast 4184
OG is 1.142 a little bigger than I intended
Added some yeast nutrient and will pitch in a little while when it gets a bit closer to room temp. I've got other brews in the works so it shouldn't be too hard to let this set for several months.

Yes, cleaning up the kettle was pretty easy. Its just sugar and hot water and a few minutes with a scrubby pad did the trick. Just like after any other "normal" batch.
The whole thing was really pretty easy and went much faster than I expected.
High hopes for this one.