Bochet Mead (burnt mead)

[Pith]

Any thoughts on how caramelised honey would work in a braggot wort? Ideas for what malt to use?

 

[lsmith47]

How dry will EC-1118 yeast take this?

 

[Pith]

How dry will EC-1118 yeast take this?

My understanding is that "low attenuation" yeasts ferment slightly less dry than high attenuation yeasts; high ones eat more/all of the sugar, low ones conk out once the sugar runs low, meaning you'll have an ever-so-slightly sweet drink.

 

[biochemedic]

Any thoughts on how caramelised honey would work in a braggot wort? Ideas for what malt to use?

I think it would make a fantastic braggot...I'd imagine you could take just about any braggot recipe and substitute the boiled honey, creating a nice carmalized quality. I'd think it might complement a dark, roasty malt profile very well...

How dry will EC-1118 yeast take this?

All the way, baby...

My understanding is that "low attenuation" yeasts ferment slightly less dry than high attenuation yeasts; high ones eat more/all of the sugar, low ones conk out once the sugar runs low, meaning you'll have an ever-so-slightly sweet drink.

Attenuation has little meaning in mead making, as the must is essentially 100% fermentable...in the case of mead, the attenuation can be assumed to be the ABV tolerance, assuming you manage the fermentation well, proper nutrients, no stuck fermentation, etc. There's always *some* non-fermentable stuff (proteins, unfermentable sugars, etc.) so this isn't strictly true, but it's close enough.
FWIW, though, I have wondered (based on the fermentation experience that I had with my bochet) if the boiling/carmelization process may create some increase in unfermentable sugars...there was definitely an *apparent* lower attenuation in my bochet compared with other honey-only mead fermentations I've done with the same yeast, and the perceived final sweetness was there to back this up.

 

[BargainFittings]

This mead definitely has a higher perceptible sweetness than the final gravity would have you believe.

 

[Revvy]

This mead definitely has a higher perceptible sweetness than the final gravity would have you believe.

Yeah, the maiilard reaction creates a ton of un fermentable sugars.

 

[PaddyMurphy]

Well, I decided to brew up 2 gallons worth of bochet.

I used about 8 pounds of SueBee Clover honey. I guess I didn't stir quite vigorously enough, since there are still some small black bits stuck to the bottom of my stockpot. Anyway. Boiled the honey for 1¾ hours, stirring constantly, then split it between 2 1-gallon carboys. Added water, 1 tsp energizer and ¼ tsp Fermax nutrient to each gallon, then waited hours for it to cool sufficiently. Pitched one gallon with EC-1118, and one with Côte des Blancs. It almost looks like Guinness. OG (unless I did my math wrong) is something like 1.15.

I'll also wind up adding in about ¼ tsp nutrient per day for the 3 days after the initial brew.

I'm thinking I may backsweeten after I rack the bochet once or twice.

I'll post pictures later today when I can download them off my camera.

 

[lsmith47]

All the way, baby...

So what would you recommend using for this bochet to have a sweet to semi-sweet final product?

 

[biochemedic]

So what would you recommend using for this bochet to have a sweet to semi-sweet final product?

I actually think EC-1118 would probably be fine...as discussed in the past few posts, you will generally get some unfermentable sugars and a resultant sweetness just from the process of creating the must, so that is one source. If you want it sweeter than that, you may have to consider stabilizing and backsweetening after fermentation. I used Wyeast Dry Mead (4632) and this has the same ABV tolerance as the EC-1118. My OG and FG were 1.107 and 1.007, ABV 13.4% What I meant by "all the way" is that strain would eat anything and everything available, and wouldn't likely poop out until it hit the truly unfermentable parts of the must.

 

[BargainFittings]

It will definitely be sweet even when it finishes out.

I'm finding my last batch to be a bit dryer than the first batch probably because I did not darken it quite as much.

 

[lsmith47]

Sounds great. I plan to have some started before the end of the year. I love keeping up with everyone else's though, so keep us posted on how things turn out.

 

[PaddyMurphy]

As promised, here's the pictures! First, meet the cleanup crew. By the time he was done, nobody was sticking to the floor.

Next are the pictures of the pot at 0 minutes, 45 minutes, 75 minutes, and 105 minutes:

A closeup of the final must and a look at the change in color over time

And here are the carboys waiting for me to pitch the yeast

Definitely reminds me of Guinness.

 

[BargainFittings]

Your cleanup crew looks very attentive!

 

[PaddyMurphy]

He is. He's not getting any mead, though. No matter how much he begs.

 

[Pith]

Would be very interested to see what it looks like at the end of vigourous fermentation, and then again after final racking.

Have a great Christmas and New Year, and let us know how it goes!

 

[thebigred67]

Ha I thought I had stumbled onto a new idea. I guess there is nothing new under the sun!

 

[thebigred67]

He is. He's not getting any mead, though. No matter how much he begs.

Mine gets to clean the floor after bottling. Are boiling just the honey to caramelize or honey and water?

 

[Pith]

Mine gets to clean the floor after bottling. Are boiling just the honey to caramelize or honey and water?

Just the honey.

 

[Mrbrownfolks]

I just finished my first bochet, 10.5 lbs of generic honey simmered for a couple of hours, 2 tsp of yeast nutrient in a 3 gallon carboy. I'll post some first ferm pics tomorrow morning.

Edit, I went with D-47 for my yeast.

 

[turtlescales]

I plan on doing a bochet in the next week or two, just a single gallon batch. New at this, and starting with 3 single gallons of different styles to get a feel for mead making and this will be the last for a bit. Probably. Maybe. I am wondering, how large a pot I would need to accommodate 3.5 lbs of caramelizing honey? The SO and I moved to Texas recently, and left a lot of stuff behind and I am uncertain if my current pot is up to the task.

 

[biochemedic]

I plan on doing a bochet in the next week or two, just a single gallon batch. New at this, and starting with 3 single gallons of different styles to get a feel for mead making and this will be the last for a bit. Probably. Maybe. I am wondering, how large a pot I would need to accommodate 3.5 lbs of caramelizing honey? The SO and I moved to Texas recently, and left a lot of stuff behind and I am uncertain if my current pot is up to the task.

I would recommend a pot of at least 3-4 times the volume of honey...the honey will expand quite dramatically when it boils.

I'd use at least a gallon size pot...

 

[PaddyMurphy]

Racked my batches of bochet today. They're both at SG 1.060 (OG was 1.150), so current ABV is ~12%. Snuck a taste. They're still sweet, but the burned taste seems to dominate a bit too much, especially in the aftertaste. Hopefully that'll mellow out over time.

 

[BargainFittings]

Did you caramelize or actually take it to almost burnt?

 

[usfmikeb]

I actually racked mine over a bit ago as well. Didn't test it, but it was fairly dry, but the alcohol dominated all the flavors. I'm going to let it sit for 6 months...

 

[Pith]

Racked my batches of bochet today. They're both at SG 1.060 (OG was 1.150), so current ABV is ~12%. Snuck a taste. They're still sweet, but the burned taste seems to dominate a bit too much, especially in the aftertaste. Hopefully that'll mellow out over time.

What kind of flavours did you taste? Vanilla? Floral? Bitter? Caramel? Chocolate? Cocoa? Coffee? Honey? Maple? Treacle? Biscuit?

 

[PaddyMurphy]

Burned, kind of like the distinct burned part of the taste you can get from stout. It wasn't unpleasant, but I think I may have either left the honey on to boil too long or not used high enough quality stuff.

 

[Pith]

Burned, kind of like the distinct burned part of the taste you can get from stout. It wasn't unpleasant, but I think I may have either left the honey on to boil too long or not used high enough quality stuff.

Huh. So no other tastes other than burnt? If you wanted to be optimistic you could say "dark toffee", rather than burnt. Well, maybe bottle it in small bottles and have one every 4 months or so. The burnt flavours might subside and give way to softer, caramel flavours and such.

Q: Are you going to carbonate it?
Q: Do you like stout? I like sweet stouts (ie "Young's Double Chocolate Stout"), but can only stand a couple of mouthfuls of dry stouts.

 

[BargainFittings]

If all else fails it will be a good candidate for blending... braggot anyone?

 

[OpenContainer]

This looks tasty and easy. Thinking I'll need to source some honey since I have two empty 3 gallon carboys at home. Thinking I'll make an extra gallon as well so that I can top up with the same when I rack.

 

[PaddyMurphy]

Did you caramelize or actually take it to almost burnt?

It was pretty freaking dark. In the carboy it looked black, but while going through the racking tube it seemed to have a very dark red color instead.

Huh. So no other tastes other than burnt? If you wanted to be optimistic you could say "dark toffee", rather than burnt. Well, maybe bottle it in small bottles and have one every 4 months or so. The burnt flavours might subside and give way to softer, caramel flavours and such.

Q: Are you going to carbonate it?
Q: Do you like stout? I like sweet stouts (ie "Young's Double Chocolate Stout"), but can only stand a couple of mouthfuls of dry stouts.

I do like stout. That's why I was saying it tasting burned wasn't a bad thing.