Bochet GROUP BREW - Solera Style

[HawleyFarms]

Everybody still alive? Starting my third addition of these in the coming weeks. Been so busy with work that I've only been doing one of these a year instead of my original intentions to do one every 4 months.

 

[Baabaad00]

What benefits does this method offer to your mead?

 

[Kyzaboy89]

This brewer has been quiet a bit to long, time to wake up the yeast and find my hydrometer again. Hey everybody, after nearly 2 years handling life I'd like to say it's time to do that 5th generation haha. Cleaning out my shop making way for more storage and future home projects, I found myself wondering what these bottles and jugs of dark amber liquid were. Kind of crazy how you can lose track of time and especially when i realize when we started this so many years ago. Hope there may be some blends still out there going strong, i'll hopefully update on the state of mine since my yeast/lees are certainly gone but I'm curious how the 4th gen tastes from the bottle now.

Cheers all!

 

[HawleyFarms]

This brewer has been quiet a bit to long, time to wake up the yeast and find my hydrometer again. Hey everybody, after nearly 2 years handling life I'd like to say it's time to do that 5th generation haha. Cleaning out my shop making way for more storage and future home projects, I found myself wondering what these bottles and jugs of dark amber liquid were. Kind of crazy how you can lose track of time and especially when i realize when we started this so many years ago. Hope there may be some blends still out there going strong, i'll hopefully update on the state of mine since my yeast/lees are certainly gone but I'm curious how the 4th gen tastes from the bottle now.

Cheers all!

Never did manage to get one made last year and 2016's blend is still sitting in the carboy. Life really got in the way in 2017 and I just never had time for brewing of any sort. I think my first batch is by far the best one.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

I hear ya there, life and started having kids for me so ya, life really takes off on you sometimes. After checking my 4th gen it's really a wonderful cloudy/vinegar mix in a jug so... At least my first 3 gens were bottled and sitting quietly on the shelf. Swmbo tried giving me grief but ultimately told me to start brewing again because she misses drinking it. Planning to brew this afternoon and start a new solera style bochet line. I was reading some old notebooks and comparing knowledge from then and now is just so much fun.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Just pitched my New 1st gen. and its going to be a work in progress from my previous notes with subtle variants along the way. Planning a bochet/cyser with maple, vanilla, hazelnut and butterscotch in respective generations. Every gen will be distinct while planning that blend at around the 3rd and 5th gen. to be an option for future large brews. Smells so good around here now, making the pregnant wife crazy for food haha.

Cheers all!

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

I have my second blend sitting in a carboy, but I'm thinking of starting over rather than adding into it. I had tried a sour fermentation with the 2nd round and it just didn't come out good. The regular brett bochet was great, which I have a couple bottles of, but I'd rather start fresh and make great stuff each blend, rather than wait for the sourness to fade out of the blends. I'll be doing this once I get a free carboy.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Sounds good Blue, my newbie is clearing in the fridge currently. down to a 1.000 and aroma is sweet and warm, taste... dry and waaarm, once it's moved to aging i'll have more details but i can't tell if there's a slight off flavor already or not. Going to wait a couple weeks and see whats up before thinking about critiques.

 

[TMorpak]

Hi everyone. I was really happy to see people still active in this thread as I just got into making mead and this style immediately appealed to me. I’m going to start a Solera Bochet Project. To try and benefit from people’s experience is there any yeast recommendations to try? How much oak are people using per carboy (6 month batch)? Does it get too oaky?
I found this article describing the solera system of a rum. Looks interesting. https://refinedvices.com/ron-zacapa-part-ii-solera-system-explained
Can’t wait to start this.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

I've just been using a handful,nothing too oaky yet.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Welcome TMorpak, it was quiet for a while but seems to be starting up again in this thread. Just read your Zacapa Solera style and its an interesting take on altering the solera system from simple dirt road to Seattle interstate exits haha really neat process though, seems like a neat take on blends and aging.

 

[MightyMosin]

This is quite an old thread but I like the idea...
Anyone interested in starting this up as a new thread/project?

I'm thinking 5 or 6 generations. That takes you out to about 3 years and if you are doing an oak barrel, about your useful extraction out of it

 

[Kyzaboy89]

This is quite an old thread but I like the idea...
Anyone interested in starting this up as a new thread/project?

I'm thinking 5 or 6 generations. That takes you out to about 3 years and if you are doing an oak barrel, about your useful extraction out of it

Apologies beforehand if this is bumping a dead thread, this was a fun group brew and idea that I stuck with for quite some time. Having a side eyed obsession with nailing down a solid recipe the solera style blending adds some forgiveness in the long run of a generation gets away.

I stuck with this through 2020 and have the last of 4 carboys hiding in the back of my brew shelf collecting a surprising amount of dust... No idea why I have let this age so long because it was a lot of fun. I can't remember what generation this ended up with but I think a group brew would be fun again.

Shout out to MightyMosin for the suggestion and I think if we wanted to try it again it would bring a fun new experience for a lot of brewers. If anyone else would like to chime in about renewing or continuing solera style bochet as a group brew let's hear it. I started this when I was fairly new to brewing so anyone just beginning or learning, group brews used to be my favorite place to experience and discover new ideas so feel free to join in or ask about the process.

Cheers.

 

[Dan O]

Apologies beforehand if this is bumping a dead thread, this was a fun group brew and idea that I stuck with for quite some time. Having a side eyed obsession with nailing down a solid recipe the solera style blending adds some forgiveness in the long run of a generation gets away.

I stuck with this through 2020 and have the last of 4 carboys hiding in the back of my brew shelf collecting a surprising amount of dust... No idea why I have let this age so long because it was a lot of fun. I can't remember what generation this ended up with but I think a group brew would be fun again.

Shout out to MightyMosin for the suggestion and I think if we wanted to try it again it would bring a fun new experience for a lot of brewers. If anyone else would like to chime in about renewing or continuing solera style bochet as a group brew let's hear it. I started this when I was fairly new to brewing so anyone just beginning or learning, group brews used to be my favorite place to experience and discover new ideas so feel free to join in or ask about the process.

Cheers.

I like the idea of this. I've blended a few different meads in the past, but it was just by the glass, not to keep aging.
Who else can we get to get in on this?

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Originally I believe 3 people were on board to kick things off and others slowly joined up, myself included, no reason to wait for a number of people. If anyone thinks a predetermined date to kick things off again would be best, that might give some time to clarify any processes and aquire new brewers, i like the idea of a group kickoff. Kind of like the old group/club/national brew days when everyone started the same recipe on a weekend.

 

[Dan O]

Originally I believe 3 people were on board to kick things off and others slowly joined up, myself included, no reason to wait for a number of people. If anyone thinks a predetermined date to kick things off again would be best, that might give some time to clarify any processes and aquire new brewers, i like the idea of a group kickoff. Kind of like the old group/club/national brew days when everyone started the same recipe on a weekend.

Agreed. If there was a date that people could plan it around, that might appeal to a larger crowd/group.
Not sure if a new thread should be started though. Would that help people see it?

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Agreed. If there was a date that people could plan it around, that might appeal to a larger crowd/group.
Not sure if a new thread should be started though. Would that help people see it?

It wouldn't help people see it, updating and commenting will keep it updated in the forum thereby allowing more views.

That said, if anyone around here would like to join in on a group brew, the concept is fairly simple and fun. Feel free to join in, ask about bochet or solera systems and have fun with us.

I'm thinking about early January I would be able to get in a brew day, currently doing some interior remodeling that has me occupied until Christmas, any thoughts on January or later? Of course future participants can start up whenever they join in.

 

[Dan O]

It wouldn't help people see it, updating and commenting will keep it updated in the forum thereby allowing more views.

That said, if anyone around here would like to join in on a group brew, the concept is fairly simple and fun. Feel free to join in, ask about bochet or solera systems and have fun with us.

I'm thinking about early January I would be able to get in a brew day, currently doing some interior remodeling that has me occupied until Christmas, any thoughts on January or later? Of course future participants can start up whenever they join in.

I could be down for mid January. Some time for the holidays to settle down.
Anybody else interested?

 

[MightyMosin]

I'm in, which is why I originally bumped the thread.

I'll get another barrel for this. I figure I can do a 7 gallon initial batch and then rack into a barrel. After that, ~4 gallon batches will be good for me to keep the barrel topped up every ~ 6 months.

I agree that mid January might be a good point to start on it.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

I'm in, which is why I originally bumped the thread.

I'll get another barrel for this. I figure I can do a 7 gallon initial batch and then rack into a barrel. After that, ~4 gallon batches will be good for me to keep the barrel topped up every ~ 6 months.

I agree that mid January might be a good point to start on it.

Glad to hear it, I was hoping you would reply as I recall you were the one to bump the thread.

I've got 4, 3 gallon carboys that I line up and simply label "Clear," "Spice," "Oak," and "Finish." I'm a sucker for full carboys lined up looking good, that and I haven't ventured for barrels yet but one day maybe.

Currently for Mid January group brew:
Dan O
MightyMosin
and myself

I need to start finalizing a recipe to kick things off when I do.

 

[Dan O]

I need to start finalizing a recipe to kick things off when I do.

So, this will be your recipe to follow then, correct? Or are we each coming up with our own?

 

[MightyMosin]

(as seen on gotmead)
Hello Everyone! I haven't seen a group brew pop up in a while, so I figured it was time to come up with one. One of the more intriguing styles I've seen (in my opinion) grow in popularity over the past few years is the Bochet (mead with caramelized honey).

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So taking that, and adding a bit of flare to it with the Solera style of aging. Solera aging is as follows: This is normally done in barrels but we can do oaked carboys for the sake of convenience (if you have a bunch of barrels, more power to you, but won't be required to join on in).

To start, you would brew a batch of bochet, and at 6 months, brew another one. At 12 months you would brew a third and so on at 6 month intervals to however many carboys you want.

When you are ready to bottle: You bottle only from your FIRST Carboy. You also don't completely empty the carboy. Instead you leave a portion behind (1/3 - 1/2) and refill the original carboy from the next generation (your second carboy). And your second carboy is refilled form the third, and so on and so on until you reach your last carboy. Your last carboy is then filled with new must and fermented.

If that didn't make any sense, there is a Wikipedia article here that may clear things up. Solera - Wikipedia

Why I chose Bochet style for this: The process in making bochet can be a bit unpredictable in that the amount of caramelization you get can change from batch to batch if you are even a minute or two off, or your temps weren't the same as your last batch. This change loans itself well in emulating different characters of different years grape harvests.

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What we'll do is gather some participants, then we'll let everyone start on their own time and we can all watch each others progress and notes. Anyone interested in trading batches down the road I've put together a label we can use (or you can make your own!)

The rules are as follows: (these are completely open to suggestions and changes based on participant feedback).
1. 75% of your honey must be Caramelized for each generation.
2. You must have at least 3 generations (No maximum)
3. You may change your recipe for each generation (new yeast /ingredients); but remember that these will be blended down so crazy outliers may hurt future generations.
4. Generations rotate every 6 months (Stay as close to this as you can, not a hard rule)
5. HAVE FUN, and learn about blending and Solera Aging along the way!
6. Late Joiners will be allowed to join any time!

So, with all that, Who's IN!? Remember that if you have a suggestion for the rules to give your input before we begin.

Generation Schedule would just be ~6 months from when you started (Example if you started in mid-July),
G1. July 15th
G2. January 15th
G3. July 15th
...and so on and so on...

I like the idea of the Bochet, as the original post suggests.

My bochet batches have never been as high as 75% of the honey though that could be interesting. I imagine that Clover or Wildflower will be my primary choices with some Buckwheat added to add some variety to the mix. If honey was music, Buckwheat would be bass.

Some Orange or Raspberry Blossom in some of the batches could be nice, but I don't see myself caramelizing those and destroying those varietal flavors.

The Trader Joe's Mostly Mesquite would likely add some nice character to some of the batches to be made.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

So, this will be your recipe to follow then, correct? Or are we each coming up with our own?

Oh no, everyone can follow their own recipe of choice, I meant I need to finalize what I plan to brew so I'm not coming up with 6 different ideas in front of the stove.

As to Mighty's point on the amount of caramelized honey, what about treating bochet similarly to the standard mead definition (majority of fermentable sugars.) E.g. for a melomel to be such and not a wine the majority of fermentable sugars must come from honey. I've always looked at bochet the same, majority of the honey 51-100% should be caramelized. Just my opinion, feel free to share your own thoughts.

 

[Dan O]

Oh no, everyone can follow their own recipe of choice, I meant I need to finalize what I plan to brew so I'm not coming up with 6 different ideas in front of the stove.

As to Mighty's point on the amount of caramelized honey, what about treating bochet similarly to the standard mead definition (majority of fermentable sugars.) E.g. for a melomel to be such and not a wine the majority of fermentable sugars must come from honey. I've always looked at bochet the same, majority of the honey 51-100% should be caramelized. Just my opinion, feel free to share your own thoughts.

I agree with that. For me, a bochet should be @ least 51% caramelized honey for the fermentable sugars. I'm looking forward to this.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Bulk age took a turn and tried to retire on this one, need to bottle and sample but the aroma is spectacular. I caught caramel, toffee, and a berry sweetness which the wife simple describes as, "Smells like cobbler in the oven!" Now she's excited for bochet day, not so much when I said it might be another 4 years to replicate haha.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

I might commandeer the stove tomorrow to do my caramelization, whether I pitch this weekend or next remains to be seen as the rest of the month is already getting busy. If next weekend stays open my honey will be caramelized and stored in the fridge until brew day.

Planning to caramelize 10# of wildflower honey in a thick kettle over the stove top while maintaining a temperature around 220°f. This is the newest form I've wanted to try out, with fructose caramelizing at 230° and glucose at 320°, I want to see if I can caramelize the fructose slowly without scorching it. Using a candy thermometer to monitor the expanding honey, I'll have a digital probe checking multiple points across the bottom of my kettle in search of any possible hot spots as well as gauging any temperature difference.

The thought comes from cooking steak for my wife when a medium rare interior has a perfect golden seer on the surface. Maillard effects and cooking another steak on higher heat causing a rare interior with a charred seer gave birth to this epiphany. If it doesn't work as planned, the heat will slowly move up over time and caramelize as I have done before numerous times. I know what can be produced with higher heat and rapid caramelization, I simply want to see if I can produce a different flavor, aroma or other noticable characteristic.

That's a ramble, curiosity wonders what anyone else is planning to do for their caramelized honey, also if anybody wants to join in the invite is open to start whenever so feel free. Cheers

 

[MightyMosin]

I'm thinking about what I am going to do for this. I'll eventually be racking into a oak barrel for this project. My first batch will be ~ 15% ABV and I'll make 7 gallons for racking into the barrel. As this will be going ~ 3 years, I want the higher ABV to help with the aging. I'm thinking that following generations will be 3 gallon batches so that I am racking smaller amounts to bottle while keeping a larger portion for the continued Solera blending.

This first batch will require ~22.5 Lb of honey, so I will need to bochet at least12 Lb of honey and that will likely require me to do it in two batches... I'm not sure that I have a pot big enough to do it all at once. I have only about 14 Lb of my Buckwheat left and it will give a great flavor in a bochet (after a bit of time). I'm anticipating that I will caramelize ~6Lb of Buckwheat and another 6Lb of a white Clover. The remaining 10Lb will probably be a wildflower or orange blossom...maybe a bit of Mesquite. I think that this amount of Buckwheat will be a good add without its bold/odd flavor dominating too much.
I plan on using the remainder of the Buckwheat in two of the future generations to help carry that flavor through.

With temperatures being low right now, I think I will go with K1-V1116 yeast. At lower temps it will add floral esters and has been a solid yeast in my last two Bochets. D47 might be nice to try out in a bochet while I have the low temperatures working for us and it is good for lettin the mead sit on the lees... will figure it out soon enough.

Edit: Honey is done caramelizing... 10 Lb of Costco Wildlower that was crystallized and needed to be used and another 6Lb of Buckwheat... It will sit covered in the pot covered, I will go and have some beer with the spouse and friends and make up the must tomorrow... Good times!

 

[MightyMosin]

As I think about this more, I may split the must batch and maybe do half with D47 and the other v1116... It depends on how much effort I want to put forth.

 

[Barzahl]

I'm in, just to clarify on the solera process I bulk age everything and do the mixing at the end?

 

[MightyMosin]

Correct me if wrong, but this is my understanding.

The intention is to bottle periodically so that your earliest carboy has the longest aging and the most blended mix. If done true to the style you will have a carboy for each generation. If you think of them stacked vertically like this:
6
5
4
3
2
1
At some point, let's say Gen 3, You will bottle a portion out of #1. You will then siphon from #2 to fill #1. You will then siphon from #3 to fill #2.

I've just started to think about batch size management. With my example above, I need to plan Gen3 to be larger so that when I rack into #2 I will have an appropriate sized carboy for Gen3 to sit in without much headspace. In truth, I will rely on a stainless keg for my last batch which I can add CO2 so that headspace isn't quite the issue it might be in a carboy.

You will then continue to brew your next generations and bottle, siphon, refill...
I'll likely use some of the bottled blends to top up the barrel as needed.