Blue beer

[saccw]

So, my work's brewing club was given a very specific challenge in exchange for a dedicated brewing room in the premises; make a baby blue beer with 7% ABV.

Is there a deadline? This sounds like fun. Is there an explicit or implied requirement that the beer would have to be, say, good to drink? I'm guessing that the baby blue originates from the company's corporate colors and it was thinking of serving the result at a company function, but then the 7% ABV requirement throws me for a loop.

 

[EvanMyl]

Is there a deadline? This sounds like fun. Is there an explicit or implied requirement that the beer would have to be, say, good to drink? I'm guessing that the baby blue originates from the company's corporate colors and it was thinking of serving the result at a company function, but then the 7% ABV requirement throws me for a loop.

The deadline is mid-June. You're spot on about the corporate colors. 7 refers to an element on the company logo, so that's where that is coming from. We're having to jump through a number of health and safety loops to get the brewing room (for a good reason) and the beer is meant to appease the H&S committee gods during their annual review.

 

[EvanMyl]

I'm still thinking with a PH south of 4.5, you're going to be too acidic to keep the blue. I really hope I'm wrong, though. I want to make a blue beer!

Unfortunately, water chemistry is the one area I haven't touched yet while brewing. I know at least that spirulina food color has a ph range of 5-14. If I could maybe adjust ph after fermentation is done to avoid the color being impacted by heat, that might work.

 

[Rotor_Head]

The challenge you have is the color of the wert or beer. If you have yellow beer and try to dye it with blue, ittle turn green. To have no kidding light blue beer, you'll need to find a way to steep grain without imparting color to the wert. Either that or find a way to filter color..... To be fair, I am guessing.

 

[EvanMyl]

I guess I should have read your original post better, didn't see the 7% ABV requirement. That makes things real tough. You could add dextrose or maltodextrin, but I think you would have to add a lot and I'm not sure how large quantities of those would affect the taste and mouthfeel of a witbier.

What about a really dry belgian tripel style with the lightest malt you can get your hands on. You could use dry rice extract and sugar to up the ABV and not change the color.

Sounds like a decent plan. I'm going to have to run a test soon (need to finish my Kolsch first).
Any recommendations on the pale malt? Pilsner?

 

[thumpersk_a]

Wonder if there is a way to make your base color a milky white? Then the blue coloring would be spot on. Coffee creamer stout...? Ha i wish you luck. Sounds like fun.

 

[Hamaki]

Brilliant blue (FD&C blue #1) or indigo carmine (FD&C blue #2) should do well at pH 4.5. Not the case for anthocyanins (cabbage, etc.). You should be able to add the dye to a commercially available finished product so that you can see if you like the color, does it affect flavor, etc. before you spend the time brewing up a batch to dye.

Some health questions exist about food dyes but really there are health risks associated with beer in general and I doubt this blue beer will become a daily staple in anyone's diet. You can experiment with berries, flowers or vegetables but I'm skeptical that you'll come up with an ideal solution in the time that you have. If it were me I'd like to have something I know I can rely on if the spirulina isn't the right color or the borage blossoms taste nasty. I'm not wild about them, myself, but they look nice in a salad.

 

[JonM]

People make Romulan Ale cocktails and beers and I found a thread on Northern Brewer's forum talking about it. Food coloring seems to be the way to go.

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76133

(And RIP, Mr. Nimoy.)

 

[mliptack]

You have to think of coloring with pigments. The difficulty with making blue, as some have alluded to, is that you will often make more of a green than a blue.

This is because beer naturally is yellow-ish.

Think about adding paints together. Mix yellow and blue. What color do you get?

The difficulty is because blue is a primary color (in pigment and in light). If you add any other color to it (primary or not), you will make a new color.

Wonder if there is a way to make your base color a milky white? Then the blue coloring would be spot on.

thumpersk - is on par here, to get a pale baby blue color you will need to get a milky white tint first, then add something that will make blue.

Recently I was looking into brewing with Almond Milk or Rice Milk. It would have to be added after mash otherwise I would suspect the enzymes in the mash would start to break down the rice starches and ferment that too.

Cheers!

 

[JonM]

If you want it milky white, a bunch of wheat and flaked oats would go a long way. I have a hefeweizen on tap right now that's 50% pilsner, 50% white wheat. It is very, very pale straw gold and totally cloudy. I have also heard that rye is more grayish than golden. Maybe some kind of rye/wheat, etc. base?

Anyone know if a mix like that would convert? Or drain?

 

[kh54s10]

People make Romulan Ale cocktails and beers and I found a thread on Northern Brewer's forum talking about it. Food coloring seems to be the way to go.

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76133

(And RIP, Mr. Nimoy.)

This is what I found about the Romulan Ale pictured:


The smell is corn, grainy, weird, wheat, floral, and yuck. The color is blue and the look is clear. The taste is weak, corn, and water. Bad stuff.

 

[JonM]

Well, you definitely don't want to clone that crappy beer, but the comments do talk about how to make a beer blue.

 

[EvanMyl]

Brilliant blue (FD&C blue #1) or indigo carmine (FD&C blue #2) should do well at pH 4.5. Not the case for anthocyanins (cabbage, etc.). You should be able to add the dye to a commercially available finished product so that you can see if you like the color, does it affect flavor, etc. before you spend the time brewing up a batch to dye.

Some health questions exist about food dyes but really there are health risks associated with beer in general and I doubt this blue beer will become a daily staple in anyone's diet. You can experiment with berries, flowers or vegetables but I'm skeptical that you'll come up with an ideal solution in the time that you have. If it were me I'd like to have something I know I can rely on if the spirulina isn't the right color or the borage blossoms taste nasty. I'm not wild about them, myself, but they look nice in a salad.

I think I'll give indigo carmine a go, at least I won't have to worry about the PH messing up the color.

Using it on a commercial product is a valid point, but I also need to know if the specific recipe I'll be using can handle the dye (and how much of it).

 

[EvanMyl]

Alright, recipe time;

5gl
WLP400 Belgian Wit ale

Pisner malt - 50%
Candi sugar - 21%
Flaked wheat - 29%

Saaz (2.8%) - 50gr for 60min

Mashing at 55C for 10min, 65C for 60min, 77C for 10min
The sugar goes in 15min before the end of the boil.

In primary for 1 week, dump the dye in the bucket and keg.


Hear me out on my rationale, as I know there will be several objections;

I've gone for a Belgian wheat beer for 2 reasons; paleness and the fact that the Belgian yeast will add some notes of interest. I didn't go for a trippel, as I was having issues keeping the color pale enough, hitting my desired ABV, and staying true to the style all at the same time.

In constructing the grain profile, I'm sacrificing some of the flavor for the ability to hit my desired ABV. Candi will pull the color towards white while adding much needed fermentables, and the pale malt and the wheat are the bare minimum in keeping the beer from turning into pissewasser. I'm not sure if the proportions work. It's not a terribly good wheat beer (which needs equal amounts of pale malt and wheat), but I was more concerned with number-wrangling in this case.

The three-step mashing schedule is meant to deal with the wheat.

The sugar goes in as late as possible to avoid any scorching from the kettle's surface, which will affect the color.

The color is coming up to 6EBC (very pale) and the ABV at 7.1%, right within my requirements.

No secondary needed here, I want the beer as cloudy as possible.

The hops are a bit of an afterthought when drinking a blue beer, but Saaz is subtle enough to let the yeast do its job.

Any thoughts?

 

[Hamaki]

I like it. If it were me I might consider a bit of maltodextrin, maybe 4 - 6 oz.

 

[des]

Any progress? I'd love to know how it goes. Did you brew it already?

 

[Kevin79]

I heard he drank it and swelled into a giant blueberry. The Umpa Lumpas are taking him to the juicing machine as we speak...

 

[grrickar]

"you're turning violet, Violet!"

 

[EvanMyl]

I'm pooping smurfs as we speak!

Just a little busy right now with equipping the brewing room and writing up the health & safety regulations, but I should have some time to brew soon.

 

[Thedutchtouch]

is this just going to be looked at? or does it have to be drinkable? because you could make a "beer" with not much malt and a lot of sugar to get a clearer color that wouldn't react with the food coloring as much.

 

[Travestian]

Interesting read so far. Good luck! Sub'd.

 

[Kevin79]

So any update yet?

 

[thumpersk_a]

Did you end up putting smurfs in a blender then racking onto the blended smurf

 

[EvanMyl]

Soooo...
Apologies for dropping off, work got hectic (the price to pay for a dedicated brewing room).
Here's the result. All the numbers were spot-on, the dye worked like a charm (only need a small amount and it doesn't stay on the tongue), and it actually tastes great and has a great mouthfeel (thank you maltodextrin).

Top management was so impressed, they allocated a fund for custom beer mats :rockin:

 

[EvanMyl]

By the way, the dye used was indigo carmine powder. A knifetip (2gr) was enough to give a quarter of a liter this color.

 

[Hamaki]

Thanks for posting the results & the pic. Glad it worked out for you.

To me everything looks kind of blue in the pic...maybe it's just the Viagra. :fro: