Blonde ale = Kölsch ?

[worlddivides]

Can't disagree with the logic of the main paragraph, but have to take issue with the final comment, where koelsch is an attempt to render a closer pronunciation in English, which doesn't have ö, or ø for that matter, as part of its character set. As for rendering German ä and ë as ae and oe, while this may be uncommon in American English, it is the norm in the UK. I've never seen them rendered as æ or œ.
Let's not underestimate the role of technology: when typewriters were used, accents and diacriticals were a feature of the key set of country where they were used. Today, I can access any character in just about any language on my phone - even the elder fuþark if I want to. And so we shouldn't be surprised that café, jalapeño etc are increasingly being rendered as they are in their native languages.

I'm not going to fight against someone who wants to use koelsch instead of kolsch since it does have SOME currency, though I'll note that both are underlined in red in most systems with "Kolsch" and "Kölsch" as the suggestions for how to write it. I was mentioning that it's less common than the original German spelling and the English variation with "o" substituted for "ö." As I mentioned, I've never been a fan of prescriptivism and would strongly describe myself as a descriptivist. I personally use jalapeño, café, Kölsch, and so on in my work, but when I'm writing a post on a thread or a text to a friend, I'm far more likely to use jalapeno, cafe, and Kolsch instead of the versions with the special characters, and there's nothing unusual about that. Although you are 100% correct that technology with computers and smartphones has allowed special characters that were not possible on old typewriters, even in 2025 we still have issues where the English version of an Asian app will be made with an "English font" that is missing special European characters such as diactrics so we have to write "facade" instead of "façade," for example. But facade is a perfectly valid spelling. And that's my point. Not to criticize the use of "Kölsch" or "Koelsch," but to point out that "Kolsch" is a perfectly correct spelling in English, when Miraculix was saying that it is not (with the grammar/spelling check, I'll point out that Kölsch and Kolsch both do not have red lines under them, but Koelsch does because it's not as common).

 

[An Ankoù]

I don't see how English being a living language has anything to do with "the average American literacy." Also, weird that you've singled out Americans and not Canadians or English or Scots or Irish or Australians when "Kolsch" is the next most common spelling after "Kölsch" in English overall. What, do the Australians and Canadians tend to use ö more than Americans?

Quite so.
English is no longer a single language, it is a family of languages. For those branches that are living, they will continue to evolve and diverge. To say that US English is bad UK English is to say that UK English is bad American English. That is ridiculous.
The english of England has changed and at least 4 letters have been lost since the middle ages: þ, ð, ash and wyn were the other two, I think.
As for Canada, the differences between metropolitan French and Québécois are very pronounced and for the same reasons as the differences between American and English English.

 

[An Ankoù]

I'm not going to fight against someone who wants to use koelsch instead of kolsch since it does have SOME currency, though I'll note that both are underlined in red in most systems with "Kolsch" and "Kölsch" as the suggestions for how to write it. I was mentioning that it's less common than the original German spelling and the English variation with "o" substituted for "ö." As I mentioned, I've never been a fan of prescriptivism and would strongly describe myself as a descriptivist. I personally use jalapeño, café, Kölsch, and so on in my work, but when I'm writing a post on a thread or a text to a friend, I'm far more likely to use jalapeno, cafe, and Kolsch instead of the versions with the special characters, and there's nothing unusual about that. Although you are 100% correct that technology with computers and smartphones has allowed special characters that were not possible on old typewriters, even in 2025 we still have issues where the English version of an Asian app will be made with an "English font" that is missing special European characters such as diactrics so we have to write "facade" instead of "façade," for example. But facade is a perfectly valid spelling. And that's my point. Not to criticize the use of "Kölsch" or "Koelsch," but to point out that "Kolsch" is a perfectly correct spelling in English, when Miraculix was saying that it is not (with the grammar/spelling check, I'll point out that Kölsch and Kolsch both do not have red lines under them, but Koelsch does because it's not as common).

You make a good point with facade and façade.
I think the difference is that facade is now a word in the English language while kölsh isn't (yet).
I'm finding this a fascinating and instructive conversation and I don't insist on any of my opinions, I'm just throwing in my grain of salt as we say in Brittany.
As for Miraculix, isn't he Panoramix in the version originale? A little license is permissible, surely.

 

[corkybstewart]

Quite so.
English is no longer a single language, it is a family of languages. For those branches that are living, they will continue to evolve and diverge. To say that US English is bad UK English is to say that UK English is bad American English. That is ridiculous.
The english of England has changed and at least 4 letters have been lost since the middle ages: þ, ð, ash and wyn were the other two, I think.
As for Canada, the differences between metropolitan French and Québécois are very pronounced and for the same reasons as the differences between American and English English.

My wife(French) lived in London for a year back in the 70s. When we got married we spent a few days in London on our way back to the states, she had to translate for us because we just didn't have a clue what people were telling us

 

[worlddivides]

Quite so.
English is no longer a single language, it is a family of languages. For those branches that are living, they will continue to evolve and diverge. To say that US English is bad UK English is to say that UK English is bad American English. That is ridiculous.
The english of England has changed and at least 4 letters have been lost since the middle ages: þ, ð, ash and wyn were the other two, I think.
As for Canada, the differences between metropolitan French and Québécois are very pronounced and for the same reasons as the differences between American and English English.

Couldn't agree more.

When I first moved to Alameda, California, I assumed the name of the city was pronounced "Al-uh-may-duh," an Americanized version of Spanish, but I was quickly corrected that it was actually "Al-uh-mee-duh." It might not be the correct way that the word "Alameda" is pronounced in Spanish, but it is the correct name of the city in English. And likewise, I would never correct someone for pronouncing Tokyo "Toh-kee-oh" or Kyoto "Kee-oh-toh," because those are the most common pronunciations of the city in English, even though they're both wrong from a Japanese pronunciation perspective (Tokyo is more like "Tohk-yoh" like the word "Toke" followed by the word "yo." And Kyoto is "Kyoh-toh." And while Tokyo would be rendered Tōkyō, Kyoto would be rendered Kyōto since Tokyo has two long Os, but Kyoto is one long O and one short O).

 

[An Ankoù]

My wife(French) lived in London for a year back in the 70s. When we got married we spent a few days in London on our way back to the states, she had to translate for us because we just didn't have a clue what people were telling us

You should watch a few episodes of East Enders. Even I can't understand some of it. Mind you, after 3 or 4 episodes, you'd end up lobotomised. (With an s, not a z),

 

[An Ankoù]

I used to brew a Kolsch style beer, we called it Happy Wife Beer. I need to brew that again this fall.

"Happy Wife Beer" I love it even if it does sound a bit Chinese. I suggest you steer well clear of Stella Artois clone, though.

 

[corkybstewart]

I suggest you steer well clear of Stella Artois clone, though.

My wife loves that crap. SA is garbage beer for me.

 

[corkybstewart]

You should watch a few episodes of East Enders. Even I can't understand some of it. Mind you, after 3 or 4 episodes, you'd end up lobotomised. (With an s, not a z),

I'd have to get a TV or streaming service on my phone, our time in France is TV free.

 

[An Ankoù]

My wife loves that crap. SA is garbage beer for me.

The reason I mentioned it is because, in England, among the chaverati, it's known as "Wife Beater". Your "Happy Wife Beer" made me think of it.

 

[An Ankoù]

I'd have to get a TV or streaming service on my phone, our time in France is TV free.

I wish it were the same here. I hate TV with a passion, but The Wise One loves watching the news and a film in the evening.
I was joking about East Enders; I wouldn't truly recommend it to anyone. It's truly horrendous.

 

[Shenanigans]

I wish it were the same here. I hate TV with a passion, but The Wise One loves watching the news and a film in the evening.
I was joking about East Enders; I wouldn't truly recommend it to anyone. It's truly horrendous.

I guess you're a Cornation Street or Emerdale man then?

 

[An Ankoù]

I guess you're a Cornation Street or Emerdale man then?

I watched Coronation St on a black and white telly in the 60s when Mini Caldwell and Ena Sharples tought me everything I needed to know about milk stout. Are they still going?
Never watched Emmerdale. Enjoyed Stranger Things and find Resident Alien amusing. That's about it, for me. Not really a telly man, but love reading.

 

[mac_1103]

It shouldn't surprise anyone that us Murcans can't master German words. Just ask the Brits about our English.

SWMBO loves watching all the BBC stuff on PBS. I have to turn the closed captioning on half the time.

 

[Bassman2003]

I'm not going to fight against someone who wants to use koelsch instead of kolsch since it does have SOME currency, though I'll note that both are underlined in red in most systems with "Kolsch" and "Kölsch" as the suggestions for how to write it. I was mentioning that it's less common than the original German spelling and the English variation with "o" substituted for "ö." As I mentioned, I've never been a fan of prescriptivism and would strongly describe myself as a descriptivist. I personally use jalapeño, café, Kölsch, and so on in my work, but when I'm writing a post on a thread or a text to a friend, I'm far more likely to use jalapeno, cafe, and Kolsch instead of the versions with the special characters, and there's nothing unusual about that. Although you are 100% correct that technology with computers and smartphones has allowed special characters that were not possible on old typewriters, even in 2025 we still have issues where the English version of an Asian app will be made with an "English font" that is missing special European characters such as diactrics so we have to write "facade" instead of "façade," for example. But facade is a perfectly valid spelling. And that's my point. Not to criticize the use of "Kölsch" or "Koelsch," but to point out that "Kolsch" is a perfectly correct spelling in English, when Miraculix was saying that it is not (with the grammar/spelling check, I'll point out that Kölsch and Kolsch both do not have red lines under them, but Koelsch does because it's not as common).

While your information has technical merit, it is still just your opinion. Saying that "Kolsch" is perfectly correct in English is to admit that it is ok for English to be "wrong". And heaven forbid the red lines would appear as computers are so right all of time!

Yes we put up with this stuff in the United States all of the time but that does not make it correct. The absolute truth still exists out there even if one chooses to ignore or be ignorant of it's existence. Which is my opinion. Carry on...

 

[Cheshire Cat]

It shouldn't surprise anyone that us Murcans can't master German words. Just ask the Brits about our English.

SWMBO loves watching all the BBC stuff on PBS. I have to turn the closed captioning on half the time.

I find it hard to understand American actresses on TV without the subtitles, OK with men’s voices but I am a bit deaf.

 

[Willy]

Whenever I brew a Kölsch, I always call it a blonde ale so I know what I am drinking.

 

[An Ankoù]

I find it hard to understand American actresses on TV without the subtitles, OK with men’s voices but I am a bit deaf.

I thought it was just me. While I find some male voices smooth and mellow, I find many female voices strident and nasal as if the speaking voice is affected. The Wise One believes this to be down to my fundamental misogyny, but I'm beginning to find many British female voices to be more and more irritating, too. Perhaps it's a change in aural perception as I get older, but the music I listen to doesn't seem to have changed. And no, I'm not, in spite of what the Wise One says. I've spent a great deal of my life fighting that corner.
On the other hand, I found Isabel May's voice (playing Elsa Dutton) in 1883, to be amazing. I could listen to her all day.

 

[corkybstewart]

The absolute truth still exists out there even if one chooses to ignore or be ignorant of it's existence. Which is my opinion. Carry on...

I plead willful ignorance. After 44 years of marriage to a French woman and countless months spent here my French is passable. Grammatically speaking it's awful but I have no problem communicating in French and that's pretty much the sole purpose of language

 

[An Ankoù]

The absolute truth still exists out there

Mulder and Scully would now all about that (see The Twitter Files),

 

[sdbbp]

I think the actual answer is that as a protected beer style, brewers far from Koeln find it easier to just call it a blonde instead of the awkward "Koelsch-style ale". Some brewers may not be legally required to follow the restriction, but they respect it anyway.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kölsch_(beer)

 

[mac_1103]

Every brew pub in my area serves an ale that they label "Kӧlsch." I have no idea whether they are breaking any laws. Or maybe they leave out the umlaut and the misspelling is what saves them.

 

[sdbbp]

Every brew pub in my area serves an ale that they label "Kӧlsch." I have no idea whether they are breaking any laws. Or maybe they leave out the umlaut and the misspelling is what saves them.

I'd think it's only a legal problem in Germany or the EU. Others outside of that area avoid it out of respect (and possibly the ability to import into the EU ever). See this similar issue with "Champagne" in https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/loophole-california-champagne-legal/.

 

[worlddivides]

While your information has technical merit, it is still just your opinion. Saying that "Kolsch" is perfectly correct in English is to admit that it is ok for English to be "wrong". And heaven forbid the red lines would appear as computers are so right all of time!

Yes we put up with this stuff in the United States all of the time but that does not make it correct. The absolute truth still exists out there even if one chooses to ignore or be ignorant of it's existence. Which is my opinion. Carry on...

I would argue that the information I've provided is not my opinion at all. If I had said "I don't think you should use Kolsch or Koelsch but only Kölsch," then that would be an opinion. While I've given my opinion in regards to the information, the information itself is fact. As I said a couple times in this thread, I'm a descriptivist. What that means in linguistics is that I don't "prescribe" how language should be used (such as high school teachers who say "ain't isn't a word, so don't use it!" or "never end a sentence with a preposition!"), but I "describe" how it actually is used (ain't is a word that's been used for at least 200 years and virtually everyone ends sentences with prepositions).

Of course there are "right" and "wrong" answers. If I called a Kolsch a "bingblzfrtngang," that'd obviously be wrong. If I called it a "Culzst," I'd obviously be wrong. I've been very consistent on this. The red lines do not describe what is right or wrong, but they do indicate what is common. That doesn't mean that it underlining a word in red means that it's wrong, but it usually indicates that isn't as common as the variant that isn't underlined in red.

 

[Bassman2003]

I think that is the point I am getting at - common usage is not necessarily correct, just often used. And often used does not make correct. One can use ain't all they want but it is up the individual to decide how they want to be viewed. In this case, we have a native speaker showing us the proper way so choosing to continue down the "stated wrong path" is a choice of convenience, not ignorance.

This is a mountain out of a mole hill, but I see it as a movement in US society today. "We have our way, and it may be wrong but it is our way, so it is right...".

 

[Broothru]

I haven't made a Kölsch in a long time now. This thread has me really wanting to make 1. What's the most authentic Kölsch yeast still on the market? I'm thinking 2565, but 029 is good, too. Unfortunately, my old go-to (Köln) doesn't exist anymore...

Today I just finished brewing my fourth of five planned pilot batch Kolsches for this year, each one with fine-tuned tweaks, searching for just the right recipe and process. I started out with a six-way split batch of my normal Kolsch recipe, then fermenting each of the six with different Kolsch yeasts. I’ve used WLP-029 and W2565 in the past, but haven’t had much luck with 029 giving me the results I’m looking for.

Last year I placed 1st in Category at a BJCP sanctioned event with my base recipe using W2565. It was better than 029, scored in the mid-30s, but still not what I wanted. So this year I’ve gone all ‘deep dive’ with yeasts. I shared those results on a different thread.

Now I’m refining the malt bill and brewing with the five Kolsch yeasts I was pleased with, in hopes that one recipe and yeast combo will stand out and yield the results I’m looking for.

It’s been an eye-opening experience so far, especially regarding yeast selection. It’s hard to believe that a six-way split batch with the same ingredients but with only different yeasts would turn out having major differences and produce different nuanced beers.

 

[Broothru]

So wrapping up, I guess a Kolsch is a blonde ale, but it is not a Blonde Ale.

Actually, you pretty much nailed it!

 

[Broothru]

Dear non-Germans,

If you want to write an Umlaut, like ä ö or ü, but you simply cannot do it, it is fine to replace it with ae, oe or ue. It is not fine to replace it with an a o u.

It is not a Kolsch. It is a Kölsch. It might also be a Koelsch.

Sincerely
Se German

Velen Dank.

 

[Broothru]

I'm almost afraid to post, but here goes... The aformentioned beer style in this thread is one I brew all the time. I'm with the posters that have given positive reviews for Omega Kolsch II. Great stuff. Took it (3gals) to a party last summer and it didn't last long.

Bunch of crazy alcoholics (re: coworkers) there... lol

I’ll admit to have been pleased with the results I had using Omega Kolsch II as well. Imperial G-03 “Dieter” does well. Wyeast 2565 is a workhorse with a wide temperature range for fermentation and attenuates well. White Labs/ Yeast Bay 4061 “Rhine Kolsch” was my second favorite. But the best yeast I found is Escarpment Labs “Kolsch” with a remarkable temperature range (59F-72F) as well as the highest attenuation. It made my base recipe ”sparkle.” It also had the best light fruitiness of the six yeasts I was able to obtain for my testing.

 

[Broothru]

I think the actual answer is that as a protected beer style, brewers far from Koeln find it easier to just call it a blonde instead of the awkward "Koelsch-style ale". Some brewers may not be legally required to follow the restriction, but they respect it anyway.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kölsch_(beer)

The work-around I’ve noticed is that beers brewed outside of the Kolsch Konvention are referred to as “Kolsch Style” rather than “Kolsch”, and apparently are able to avoid trademark issues and legal consequences.