BLING BLING Electric HERMS Conversion

[The Pol]

What kind of issues are there with having extra water in the tank?

Um, having to refill the HLT whenever you pump water from it to keep the element submerged. Remembering to turn off the element when you transfer from the HLT so that you dont start the cooler on fire... etc.

 

[egurney]

Excuse my naivety...
Except for pumping out at strike and sparge, when else do you need to pump water out of the HLT? Can't I turn off the element at those points?
Maybe I'll put a float switch to turn the element off if the water level gets too low.

 

[The Pol]

Um, having to refill the HLT whenever you pump water from it to keep the element submerged. Remembering to turn off the element when you transfer from the HLT so that you dont start the cooler on fire... etc.

Yes, IMHO it is always nice to have the element require as little water as possible so that you do not need to have a large water contingency in the HLT to submerge it.

 

[egurney]

Cool, at least I'm understanding the issues for my design. I'll try and keep it as short as possible...

 

[klyph]

Why don't you just coil the element so that it is submerged by say, half a gallon of water?

 

[egurney]

Why don't you just coil the element so that it is submerged by say, half a gallon of water?

How would I go about doing that? Are the elements flexible?

 

[The Pol]

How would I go about doing that? Are the elements flexible?

Some are, some are not, depends on the type and how crazy you get with bending. Dont forget, you cant get too creative because you also have a coil in there that you do not want it to interfere with.

 

[klyph]

How would I go about doing that? Are the elements flexible?

I'm pretty sure they can be bent to a certain degree.

 

[monk420]

the breaker is gfci protected as they do not make 30 amp recpts gfci protected because most of the time they r appliances circuits. So your protection comes from the breaker I am an electrician, You did a good job most people just put a regular breaker in. twist locks r a good option because they can't b unplugged but u prob. have to make up your own cord end then because they use a special head on them.

 

[monk420]

i never advise anyone to do any thing i just put my knowledge out there to do what one wants to. no i would not go male to male. As for the gfi cord and the neutral problem (not sure how to copy post ) They problem i would assume is that your gfci is in the cord. If you r neutral is not hooked up in any gfci it will trip that's what it's made to do. If you have a gfci breaker your getting your neutral from the bar u hook it up in at the panel

 

[The Pol]

Thanks Lorena. People come here to read about the build, not sift through 4 pages of OT discussion. This is not the place.

 

[Cliff897]

Um, having to refill the HLT whenever you pump water from it to keep the element submerged. Remembering to turn off the element when you transfer from the HLT so that you dont start the cooler on fire... etc.

Sounds like a job for yet another thermocouple and control cycle.
hard solder or hose clamp a TC to the element/s when element temps go above some number kill the power

 

[CodeRage]

Sounds like a job for yet another thermocouple and control cycle.
hard solder or hose clamp a TC to the element/s when element temps go above some number kill the power

A float switch to lockout the element would be the most practical solution.

 

[jkarp]

A float switch to lockout the element would be the most practical solution.

I've been thinking along the very same lines as a couple people now who've built CB20s have burned up their elements by letting the kettle run dry. If anyone comes across an inexpensive, but reliable liquid sensor that can handle boiling temps, I'd love a ping.

 

[Brewmoor]

I'm pretty sure they can be bent to a certain degree.

Like The Pol said: Some can be bent. You just need to be careful. I had a camco high density 3500w element that I tried to bend and it shattered. There was ceramic inside the element and it just snapped.

The Pol and some other people have gotten other styles to bend with no problems. I bent my 5500w ULD element from Plumbing warehouse a bit with no issue. They are pretty cheap if you break one.

 

[egurney]

I bent my 5500w ULD element from Plumbing warehouse a bit with no issue. They are pretty cheap if you break one.

Would you post a picture, post bend?

 

[Brewmoor]

I can later tonight. I am not sure you will see much. I just spread it out a bit and out of the way of the thermowell.

 

[CodeRage]

I've been thinking along the very same lines as a couple people now who've built CB20s have burned up their elements by letting the kettle run dry. If anyone comes across an inexpensive, but reliable liquid sensor that can handle boiling temps, I'd love a ping.

Yuri and I have been collaborating on a bubbler level sensor with promising results. It's nice because it is no contact and self cleaning. I've had to shelve it on my end for a few weeks but it is high on the list of things to get done. It will require a logic controller to use however.

All that said, a float switch is still the best and closest to bullet proof configuration. A prox-switch solution may be just as viable as a float, but that needs further investigation as well.

 

[egurney]

a float switch is still the best and closest to bullet proof configuration.

Would something like this work?

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2A554

 

[jkarp]

I was thinking more of something like this - no moving parts:

http://www.gemssensors.com/content.aspx?id=1138

 

[egurney]

Any idea what those cost? I can only find UK prices.

 

[MrH]

This is the one I'm using in my HLT. I don't know how it would hold up in a BK, though. The pivot is pretty small and could get sticky quick. These also don't handle much current, so I use it to break contact between the positive SSR drive output and the SSR control. Works really well. I do like the looks of the one posted by jcarp, if it can be had locally for a reasonable cost.

 

[CodeRage]

This is the one I'm using in my HLT. ... These also don't handle much current, so I use it to break contact between the positive SSR drive output and the SSR control. Works really well.

That's exactly how it should be wired.

 

[egurney]

That's exactly what I was looking for. I wonder if it could be wired back to the bcs too so the BCS can alarm that the water level is low?

 

[CodeRage]

You would then have to drive a small dpdt relay so you can isolate the two signals. One to the SSR, the other to the BCS.

 

[BrewBeemer]

I would rather use one of these non mechanical units.
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/LiquidLevel/datasheets/100437_3_en_w.pdf

 

[CodeRage]

I would rather use one of these non mechanical units.
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/LiquidLevel/datasheets/100437_3_en_w.pdf

I've seen those before, pretty cool.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Jason; i've been told the stainless version goes for $145, not a clue on the plastic ones that are rated to176*F.
My only question would be foam causing a false trigger or lack of.

 

[BrewBeemer]

You would then have to drive a small dpdt relay so you can isolate the two signals. One to the SSR, the other to the BCS.

A second on that Code with having a DPDT contact relay controlled by the LED sensor, both signals would then be isolated be it to the elements SSRD as well the BCS unit powered from the BCS unit itself. A small cheap 5 VDC coil cube relay. Mechanical is bound to hang up given enough time and conditions letting the smoke out then your screwed. Those toilet flushing units look like they belong in a 1900's oak WC not a brewery.

 

[Cliff897]

This is the one I'm using in my HLT.

Yah that's the ticket. They have 'em in different materials polysulfone among them and even one made from Kynar which is super tough stuff:
http://www.arkema-inc.com/index.cfm?pag=626