Blichmann BoilCoil/Controller help

[unc2410]

I'll start off by saying that I really want to get setup for electric brewing and would love to have a heating element like the BoilCoil or any other recommended heating element. Here is the tricky part, I am a dope when it comes to electrical work. I can wire a light fixture/ceiling fan and I did the very simple wiring of the temp control on my keezer by following a fool proof YouTube video, but that's the extent of my wiring/electrical knowledge, or lack thereof. I would love to find a controller that is ready to use straight out of the box to use with the BoilCoil or other good heating element. However, I don't want to pay an arm and a leg to have it assembled/wired for me. If this is something that is not available or that is cost prohibitive then I am leaning towards the Blichmann burner to upgrade my current Bayou Classic SP10. I do 5 or 10 gallon All Grain batches with my 15 gallon brew pot and cooler mash tun. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[JoshuaW]

Do you have a budget? Or a goal? Are you trying to just replace your single propane burner with a heating element, or do you want to build a RIMs/HERMs system? As far as the actual wiring, not hard, not at all. If you want a prebuilt system, they exist, but they cost a lot more than what it costs to build one.

 

[unc2410]

Currently, I am looking to upgrade the way I boil my wort. I would like to upgrade from my current Bayou Classic SP10 turkey fryer and am deciding whether to start working towards an electric setup, RIMS or HERMS, or just upgrade to a Blichmann burner. I like the idea of an electric boil kettle in order to not have to buy propane anymore. I'm open/curious to a RIMS or HERMS system but just not sure if I want something fully automated that may take the fun out of brewing. I do however like the idea of repeatability of one of these systems. Currently, I am not able to invest the money into a full electric system, however, an electric boil kettle may be a good start if I decide to go that route. The BoilCoil looks simple as it's basically plug and play with no welding, but I am open to other good or better heating elements.

 

[jwalkermed]

i think the peeps need a general budget before they can make recomendations

 

[JoshuaW]

I would look at one of the Brewhardware.com weldless element enclosure kits, that combined with a ULWD water heater element (from Lowes, Amazon, Home Depot, etc) or one of the Brewhardware.com All Stainless elements would be a great start. When all is said and done, this will probably cost you $100 for a much more powerful element than the ones Blichman sells, and you are stuck with proprietary holes in your kettle. You can use the savings for a basic controller!

Speaking of basic controller, you should add a controller. You dont need anything fancy if you just want to boil. Something like the Still Dragon controller would be sufficient for a super budget build, and should be easy enough to assemble. This would cost you about $50 to build.

http://stilldragon.com/index.php/accessories/diy-controller-kit.html

The other option would be to go with a single PID, like this eBrewsupply kit. That would give you boil control, and be a little bit of a better start to automating your system. One of the cool things you can do with a PID is set your target temp at 208* or so, and walk away. You wort will almost get to boiling, but wont start boiling. When you are ready to boil, you can adjust the boil intensity to avoid boilovers! With the purchase of an enclosure (a metal toolbox would be sufficient), the PID, and a few odds and ends, it might cost you $200 for the controller build.

http://www.ebrewsupply.com/shop/ebrew-kits/ebrew-pid-kits/1-pid-30a-biab-kit.html


So if you go with the PID option, and a 5500 all stainless element from Bobby at Brewhardware, you will spend about $300 to go electric (assuming you already have 240v service somewhere useable). You could spend as little as $150 if you get the Still Dragon controller. Keep in mind, $150 is less than the cost of the Blichman element with no controller at all!

 

[unc2410]

Thanks Joshua, I will look into these options.

 

[JoshuaW]

You are welcome! If you can swing it, get a PID in there, whether you build it with a Boilcoil or with an element. Yeah, its another $100 in cost, but it will get you pointed in the right direction if you decide you want to run a RIMs or HERMs system in the future, or if you want to try BIAB. Either way, any of those options or combinations will work. A lot of us like to overbuild, but there is no reason you need to drop $2k to go all electric or anything crazy like that.

 

[schematix]

A lot of us like to overbuild, but there is no reason you need to drop $2k to go all electric or anything crazy like that.

Someone asked me the other day how much I had invested in equipment. By the time I was done tabulating I could account for about 8 grand...

 

[JoshuaW]

Someone asked me the other day how much I had invested in equipment. By the time I was done tabulating I could account for about 8 grand...

I have $5100 into my latest electric build alone, plus the old equipment I have, my kegging equipment, etc. I dont even want to think about what I have really spent on brewing, and I DEFINITELY dont want my wife to think about it...

 

[schematix]

and I DEFINITELY dont want my wife to think about it...

No doubt. That's why I didn't set a budget when I started this project. I just said I'm putting a brewery in the basement. A few heated discussions later she said I don't care, do what you want, so I did. She did get a big ass "laundry tub" out of the deal though....

 

[NautiDogBrewingCo.]

^^^^ she gets a laundry tub, you get a brewery. Mine gets a kitchen, I get a brewery. Different scale, same result!

 

[davemattb]

Sorry to hijack your thread, however I've been in the same boat with the controller. I've been leaning towards the blichmann electric TOP. However, I keep wondering if something better/significantly less expensive is out there so I've been reluctant to pull the trigger. I like the idea of the ebrewsupply diy kit but it sounds like it needs a few additional items and then time to build. Im assuming costs of 300 to build and a minimum of 4 hours labor/research. I also don't want to be sourcing parts from everywhere to make a kit. I'm thinking the 575 for the ready to use TOP isn't ridiculous in my case?

 

[augiedoggy]

Someone asked me the other day how much I had invested in equipment. By the time I was done tabulating I could account for about 8 grand...

I have about $ 1,200-1,500 into my single tier 3 kettle/3 element with rims tube electric setup with 3 pumps and a plate chiller so there is a lot of wiggleroom in between.

OP, you can purchase a mypin TD4 pid with an ssr,heatsink and cheap rtd temp probe for under $50 with shipping costs on ebay with an enclosure and wire from home depot you can build a 1 element controller for under $100... or spend a bit more and add some luxuries like detachable plugs at both ends and such.

The mypin TD4 has manual (PWM) mode which is best for controlling a boil in the boil kettle...its half the price of anything else with the same features I have seen.
Next week I will have time to kill and I will be adding a parts list with links for whats in my control panel in my build thread...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/facelift-my-control-panel-497593/

Blichmanns setup is Very expensive and besides being prebuilt your just paying for support (which you wont need if you build yorself) and bragging rights (oddly that extremely important to many here it seems)... The elements they use are nice but are very weak and multiple units are needed for 10 gallon brewing... These units are marketed and priced for people with more money than time in IMHO. or very conservative people who are afraid to learn new things..

An electric brewery can be as simple or complicated as you want it to be.... and like a car or motorcycle you can spend very little or a very lot of $$ on something that can get you to point A to point B just as quick and safely if you make the right choices for the right reasons. So you have to decide is it for the beer or the social status? and do you have enough income where you wont miss spending the extra money ?

and then there are the MANY prebuilt systems priced between the most expensive blichmann and least expensive DIY options to consider...

 

[schematix]

I was able to build my control panel really nice for what I thought was fairy inexpensive considering what it does and how clean it is. I didn't add it up to the penny but my mental spreadsheet comes up with about $1000, including some tools I had to purchase to cut some holes. That's for 2 PIDs, a boil controller, lots of illuminated push buttons, circuit breakers, oversized SSRs, a nice control panel box, many receptacles, the wire, as well as the 50A GFCI for my main panel and the 6/3 wire from the panel.

Outside the control panel the big items all had Blichmann written on them. 2x20G kettles, 1x15G (my original BK, now MLT), false bottom, rims rocket, therminator, etc. That's about 2 grand.

And then there's the stainless sink, T&S spray faucet (totally badass), all the plumbing I did for that and the stainless prep table. There's another $1500.

There are also the silent killers such as fittings and tubing. My first order from Bobby was over $700, and I've had 2 follow-up orders, plus what I re-used. Probably another grand there. I've got 15 valves in my system right now... 3 per vessel, 2 per pump (2 pumps) plus some on the wall for filtered water and straight unrestricted cold tap water.

Then there's the cold side of things. 2 15 cu ft chest freezers, 2 controllers, thermowells, 2 co2 tanks, 7 kegs, 5 taps, dedicated beer fridge, 8 fermenters, airlocks, caps, quad stir plate, 5 2L flasks...

Then there's the misc consumable stuff... calcium chloride, calcium sulfate, calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, sodium bicarbonate, whirlfloc, campden, PBW, star san, bulk hops, bulk grain.

An R/O system is still on the radar. St Louis County tap water is actually pretty spot on for dark gold to amber beers with little adjustment. Also need to get a vacuum sealer (that will serve double duty for sous vide with the recirculating mash tun).

However, you don't need all of this to make good beer. There are a lot of cheap'n'dirty ways to home brew. I'm just not a cheap'n'dirty kind of guy with my brewery.

 

[ingchr1]

Blichmanns setup is Very expensive and besides being prebuilt your just paying for support (which you wont need if you build yorself) and bragging rights (oddly that extremely important to many here it seems)...

I think it's just the opposite on the forum. I tend to see more bragging about how little people spend on their setups compared to others, than I see people saying "look at me I have Blichmann setup".... The expensive setups are posted up, but for the most part I just don't see it as bragging. I for one enjoy seeing the decked out builds.

I guess my setup would be considered a hybrid on the "cost/bling scale". I do have a Boil Coil and Brew Boss controller, but I built my combination HT/BK with a Bayou Classic and my MLT is a plastic cooler.

At the end of the day if your making beer and happy with your setup does it really matter what others are spending on their setups?

 

[augiedoggy]

I think it's just the opposite on the forum. I tend to see more bragging about how little people spend on their setups compared to others, than I see people saying "look at me I have Blichmann setup".... The expensive setups are posted up, but for the most part I just don't see it as bragging. I for one enjoy seeing the decked out builds.

I guess my setup would be considered a hybrid on the "cost/bling scale". I do have a Boil Coil and Brew Boss controller, but I built my combination HT/BK with a Bayou Classic and my MLT is a plastic cooler.

At the end of the day if your making beer and happy with your setup does it really matter what others are spending on their setups?

Your right it dosent matter what people spend except to those people... It does matter when people claim some of the astronomically high quotes as the kind of costs required for others to spend as it discourages people who do not have the budget to pay for the most expensive components or $400 designer kettles. ...
And yes I agree there are just as many people here bragging about how cheaply something can be done... I would seem to be one of the worse offenders it seems but in reality I'm just trying to provide experience from the opposite end of the spectrum as the replies here like "I spent 6 grand on my electric setup" and "Look at spending at least a grand to have pid controlled elements"... I here this kind of talk parroted just as often.

 

[augiedoggy]

I was able to build my control panel really nice for what I thought was fairy inexpensive considering what it does and how clean it is. I didn't add it up to the penny but my mental spreadsheet comes up with about $1000, including some tools I had to purchase to cut some holes. That's for 2 PIDs, a boil controller, lots of illuminated push buttons, circuit breakers, oversized SSRs, a nice control panel box, many receptacles, the wire, as well as the 50A GFCI for my main panel and the 6/3 wire from the panel.

Outside the control panel the big items all had Blichmann written on them. 2x20G kettles, 1x15G (my original BK, now MLT), false bottom, rims rocket, therminator, etc. That's about 2 grand.

And then there's the stainless sink, T&S spray faucet (totally badass), all the plumbing I did for that and the stainless prep table. There's another $1500.

There are also the silent killers such as fittings and tubing. My first order from Bobby was over $700, and I've had 2 follow-up orders, plus what I re-used. Probably another grand there. I've got 15 valves in my system right now... 3 per vessel, 2 per pump (2 pumps) plus some on the wall for filtered water and straight unrestricted cold tap water.

Then there's the cold side of things. 2 15 cu ft chest freezers, 2 controllers, thermowells, 2 co2 tanks, 7 kegs, 5 taps, dedicated beer fridge, 8 fermenters, airlocks, caps, quad stir plate, 5 2L flasks...

Then there's the misc consumable stuff... calcium chloride, calcium sulfate, calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, sodium bicarbonate, whirlfloc, campden, PBW, star san, bulk hops, bulk grain.

An R/O system is still on the radar. St Louis County tap water is actually pretty spot on for dark gold to amber beers with little adjustment. Also need to get a vacuum sealer (that will serve double duty for sous vide with the recirculating mash tun).

However, you don't need all of this to make good beer. There are a lot of cheap'n'dirty ways to home brew. I'm just not a cheap'n'dirty kind of guy with my brewery.

This kind of proves my point a little... you didnt need to buy all those tools if you used a plastic electrical box from the electrical Isle at home depot but you did for cosmetic reasons, and you certainly didnt need the oversized ssr's as you could have used the correct sized ones... same with wiring and such...
Someone asks what they need and everyone says 50amp or more... even though the elements only draw 18-23amps.... and you dont need to run multiple elements for any reason other than back to back brewing which honestly not very many homebrewers do. Basically a $500 project turns into 2 grand.
the big $100+ pumps are also not really needed..
just because something is economical doesnt make it "dirty" this is the kind of discouraging talk im talking about...
lets take the blichmann therminator...$200.00 vs the same 30 plate chiller from duda diesel...$85 Is someone who sees the value of buying the latter a cheapskate because he doesnt want to overpay for something?
I have no need to pump 10 gallons a minute so my $20 foodgrade 2-3gpm pumps fit the bill perfectly for me... if I feel somethings worth the investment I buy it, for example I love my conical and plan to buy more... I plan on trying the fast fermet setup though before investing in another stainless unit. while I can afford the stainless unit I see better ways to use the money wisely right now.
It boils down to priorities... for some a 50a service is something that will come in useful for others its just something that they do and extra money spent because everyone suggested it and they will never need it.

 

[schematix]

You are correct augie. I didn't need to go to the extreme that I did. However, this is my one and only hobby, and decided to go all out with it. Aesthetics were a concern due to its more permanent nature. It is absolutely possible to do electric brewing for far less than I did (and many others do).

But, electric or gas, you can spend a lot of money on brewing equipment. I think its fair to say though that the up front costs of electric are significantly higher than with gas. You can get decent burners for $40 and cheap pots for food service for similar. It's going to be hard to compete with a $40 gas burner. You also have additional considerations with electric that aren't needed when you're brewing in your garage or kitchen... e.g. ventilation, clean up, electric circuit, etc.

If you really scoured for deals, found second hand equipment, and you're pretty handy, I think you could put together a unique system for a good deal. That's not my personal style, but I give just as much kudos to someone who builds an all stainless dream system as someone who really puts the effort and ingenuity into something on a budget.

 

[davemattb]

I guess I wasn't saying blichmann TOP was for me, I was looking for recommendations on something that works as well but is cheaper and prebuilt. I've been checking out the brumatic controller, too. The blichmann may have better long term support since its a bigger company. I know I could make a system but I'm not sure the hours spent researching parts and then building would offset the higher cost. I'm open to suggestions!