Bleach vs. rinseless sanitizers

[hoffmeister]

This may be a stupid question, but here goes. I have been using diluted bleach for quite a while to sanitize all of my equipment, but have been concerned about getting all of the residue off. I think some residual bleach was to blame for my last couple of batches being relatively flat. That said, I decided to switch to a rinseless sanitizer for my most recent brew; however, when cleaning out my primary, I could not get rid of the smell of hops. After three times of filling the carboy with sanitizer and scrubbing the dickens out of it, it still had a distinct hop aroma. At that point, I gave in and used bleach, which got the smell of hops out, but now my carboy reeks of bleach, no matter how much I rinse it.

So I guess my question(s) is(are): Should I have been concerned about the hop smell, and if so, what can I do about it in the future? Should I be concerned about the bleach smell (I'm thinking I should be). I know there was a very comprehensive post on here recently, but does anyone have any favorite sanitizers or suggestions about what I should do? Thanks.

 

[lustreking]

What are you using to clean with?

 

[Joker]

I would rather have hop odor.

 

[TexLaw]

What kind of carboy do you have, and how do you clean it? I've never had any such aroma hang around in carboy before after cleaning.

And, on the original topic, I stick with the rinseless sanitizers.


TL

 

[hoffmeister]

I'm just using a run of the mill, 6.5 gallon glass carboy. I've never had it happen before either, and I didn't do anything differently. But if there's hop odor, doesn't that mean that there is still something in the carboy that would affect future batches?

Also, this may really show my ignorance, but should I be using different chemicals to clean and sanitize? I guess I always assumed that if it looked clean before sanitizing, then gave it a good going over with sanitizer, that everything was okay. Am I wrong or right on this? Thanks, Lustreking, for mentioning that.

 

[loopmd]

I use bleach to sanitize my stuff and have been forever. I usually use hot water and elbow grease to clean everything off and then sanitize and rinse and rinse somemore. I'm sure that those who use starsan or other no rinse sanitizers also just clean their stuff with elbow grease and hot water. I would not worry about your carboy, unless you are going to use it right away. Either smell (hops or bleach) will go away with time.

On a side note, you mentioned your beer was flat due in part to you using bleach last time. If you used soap to clean any of your stuff, it was probably the soap and not the bleach.


cheers, loop

 

[jakee117]

I use Starsan for long term sanitary procedures only. Leaving a residue of DDBSA ( the surfactant ) on your fermenter and filling it with wort probably not a good idea. Kind of like taking a clean dish and soaking in a sink full of dishwashing detergent and letting it dry and then serving foor on it. This wont affect the flavor as Starsan dosent contain fragrance but I wonder what DDBSA ferments down to ( it contains an aromatic ring ). Basically Starsan was developed for bigger breweries and dairies as a CIP ( Clean in Place Cleaner ) and thats where it absolutly shines. Have a plumbing set up of satinless steel from your kegge to tun to fermenter? Starsan is the no brain choice for this set up.. works great. In fact I always follow a brew session by cleaning and leaving a coat of Star san on my brew pot and after bottling my fermenter. Keeps them pretty sanitized in storage.

Note to Starsan - Why don't you cutback on the DDBSA so you get the correct H3PO4 / DDBSA for leave on? I would love you even more if you did!

Bleach is a guarantee kill for the most part so I use it at a 25 ppm for sanitizing my fermenter and hoses.

As for your hop problem you need to oxidize the hell out of the hop oils to get them out.. Do this with a good shot of bleach and a long soak ( 1 cup ). After you are done thoroughtly rinse then add a scoop of oxyclean... the peroxygen in the oxyclean will remove the chlorine odor complely.

Note : Never add Oxyclean to a bleach solution! Rinse it well before adding.

 

[malkore]

I like star-san, because a little residue won't cause any problems (and in fact will degrade into yeast nutrients).

 

[BrianP]

Keep in mind: cleaners don't sanitize, and sanitizers don't clean.

You should clean your carboy with a good cleaner (I like oxyclean free), then sanitize before use (I use star-san).

After a good cleaning, there shouldn't be any residual odor. Oxyclean free (available in Target/Walmart/etc) has no smell. Neither does star-san.

Hope this helps.

 

[jakee117]

Keep in mind: cleaners don't sanitize, and sanitizers don't clean.

I like the distinction between cleaners and sanitizers, however this is not a truism. Many sanitizers clean and sanitize ... those not in this list are cleaners.

 

[adam2]

Yeah bleach does a pretty good job of both

 

[hoffmeister]

Thanks for all the tips everyone. I'm thinking I'm just going to go back to using bleach, but is the consensus that using some oxyclean free will help get rid of the bleach odor/residue left in the fermenter? Or just hot water and some time?

 

[rdwj]

Thanks for all the tips everyone. I'm thinking I'm just going to go back to using bleach, but is the consensus that using some oxyclean free will help get rid of the bleach odor/residue left in the fermenter? Or just hot water and some time?

why take a step back? Use the Oxyclean, rinse, THEN sanitize.

 

[the_bird]

If you still have a huge amount of bleach aroma in the carboy, you're using too much bleach. What concentration are you using?

 

[hoffmeister]

Thanks rdwj-that's what I thought the order was, but someone suggested using it AFTER the bleach. Now that you mention it, I probably am using too much bleach. I'll have to watch my concentrations in the future.