BLC/ALC Kegerator Line Cleaner Question

[Uke733]

See attached pic, pail with the pump is water, pail in the center is BLC (yellowish), the other pail is ALC (fairly clear).

BLC seems to remove so much more then ALC, am I wasting my time with the ALC? This pic was after cleaning 3 x ~10ft 3/16" lines. ALC was run first this time.

I'm always amazed at how I can taste the difference after cleaning the lines but I'm thinking of ditching the ALC, any opinions?

 

[day_trippr]

I use Five Star LLC, or BLC - whichever I happen to have on hand. I don't recall ever reading of an "ALC" line cleaner so I had to look it up, and immediately noticed that the manufacturer of both ALC and BLC recommends using ALC after using BLC, hinting that the former can remove BLC-resistant oxalate staining. The wording used by the manufacturer suggests BLC is a more complete cleaner and ALC is a follow-up if needed.

BLC being a conventional potassium hydroxide cleaner and ALC being an acid-based cleaner I suppose they would leave different after-tastes if not completely rinsed away...

Cheers!

 

[Broothru]

I use Five Star LLC, or BLC - whichever I happen to have on hand. I don't recall ever reading of an "ALC" line cleaner so I had to look it up, and immediately noticed that the manufacturer of both ALC and BLC recommends using ALC after using BLC, hinting that the former can remove BLC-resistant oxalate staining. The wording used by the manufacturer suggests BLC is a more complete cleaner and ALC is a follow-up if needed.

BLC being a conventional potassium hydroxide cleaner and ALC being an acid-based cleaner I suppose they would leave different after-tastes if not completely rinsed away...

Cheers!

And don’t forget L.L.C. Liquid Line Cleaner by Five Star, the same folks who make Star San, SaniClean, PBW, and all the others.

 

[day_trippr]

Literally the first five words of my post [tap tap "Is this thing even on?" ]

 

[Broothru]

Literally the first five words of my post [tap tap "Is this thing even on?" ]

You are right (as usual!). I saw it and my mind read BLC. I’m gonna’ play the Grampa Card and blame it on my glasses!

 

[Broken Crow]

While we have users of 'line-cleaner' here, let me ask: I've always just used hot PBW and a hand pump but I've wondered if I'm missing anything. Is there any benefit to using purpose-made Line Cleaner as opposed to just using hot-PBW?

 

[Uke733]

While we have users of 'line-cleaner' here, let me ask: I've always just used hot PBW and a hand pump but I've wondered if I'm missing anything. Is there any benefit to using purpose-made Line Cleaner as opposed to just using hot-PBW?

I have done PBW then the BLC just for kicks and there is definitely still yellow color to the ALC after, does that equate to flavor, not sure?

 

[Bassman2003]

While we have users of 'line-cleaner' here, let me ask: I've always just used hot PBW and a hand pump but I've wondered if I'm missing anything. Is there any benefit to using purpose-made Line Cleaner as opposed to just using hot-PBW?

Yes. BLC is a stronger caustic than PBW. PBW is fine but BLC or Sodium Hydroxide is better.

 

[mac_1103]

While we have users of 'line-cleaner' here...

We also have folks here who claim to never clean their lines with anything but beer, so there's that.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

What's ALC? I use BLC. Seems to do the trick at least by the color of what comes out. I run hot water, then BLC, water again and then Starsan. Disassembled and soak all the QD and tap parts. It's a project when you have a few taps.

 

[Uke733]

What's ALC? I use BLC. Seems to do the trick at least by the color of what comes out. I run hot water, then BLC, water again and then Starsan. Disassembled and soak all the QD and tap parts. It's a project when you have a few taps.

This is from the Electric Brewery website:

• Every 2 weeks: Use Beer Line Cleaner (BLC) / Liquid Line Cleaner (LLC) to remove hop resins, bio-films, yeast residue, sugar build-up, bacteria, proteins, carbohydrates, and mold. This is an alkaline (high pH) cleaning. In some locations the two-week timeframe is required by law.
• Every 3 months: Use Acid Line Cleaner (ALC) to remove inorganic materials such as calcium oxalate (beer stone) and calcium carbonate (water stone). This is an acid (low pH) cleaning. For best results always perform a BLC/LLC clean before an ALC clean, rising well with water between.

I clean more like every 3-4 months.

 

[mac_1103]

I clean more like every 3-4 months.

Pretty sure those cleaning intervals are for commercial installations. Hence, "In some locations the two-week timeframe is required by law." I clean mine when a keg kicks.

 

[Broken Crow]

Thanks All... all these comments, and especially @mac_1103 's last one have generated some more questions:
Not only do all our taps see very different usage from one member to the next, we may all be using different tubing as well...
When I set up my first kegerator, I used Bevlex 200. In the begining, I read on here to see how often others cleaned beer lines and for the first few kegs I just flushed them out with hot water and Star San, but after those first few kegs I could see the tint of a veneer forming in the lines so I flushed, let sit, and flushed some more with hot PBW and it came up looking like new... I was happy. When I upgraded to 4mm ID EVABarrier I initially used the same routine with every keg change. I can't remember how long I had the 4mm before I swapped it out for 3mm ID EVABarrier at the end of 2023, but since that time I continued using PBW until last year on one particular line: Until about a month ago, I kept repeats of the same stout so I thought I'd experiment: Instead of PBW I simply rinsed the lines with hot water between each 2.5 keg batch. I keep a short length of brand new 3mm ID EVAbarrier which I hold up to the line in use and compare with light shining through and after nearly one year, there was no sign of buildup, no off-tastes. ....Oh; I am the only one drinking this in my house, so it takes a while to finish a batch. I recently swapped out for an Irish Red, so I PBW cleaned the line again finally and on inspecting the flush, it was spotless...I was actually surprised.
I'm wondering: Does EVABarrier have greater resistance to build-up? Given it's lower permeability it sounds like it might, but that's not scientific so it's not an answer at all.
Is there a noticable difference that others have seen between heavy and light use lines?.. between EVABarrier and other tubing?

 

[Bassman2003]

I do not think EVA is more resistant but it could be. Cleaning is cleaning imho. Maybe two weeks is too tight of an interval for homebrewers but I do not see a correlation between how many beers poured and how long you can go between cleanings. The beer is still sitting in the lines and taps so time sitting still needs cleaning. Maybe even more so with less flow.

Example. I have some longer style beer glasses and I usually hand wash them each night. I would soak them in the dishwater and then use the dish rag to reach all that could reach. I figured since I just drank out of it within 1-3 hours, that would be enough. Well a dark area started forming around the inside bottom of the glass. I now use a brush.

I should have been using a brush all along but the point is, even in minimal use environments, stuff still builds up.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I clean twice a year, but I do run cleaner through the lines after a keg kicks, just not a full disassembaling of the tap and QD. I found the yeast/sediment off the bottom for the keg creates a lot of sludge and stuff in the lines.