Black IPA thing of the past?

[MaxStout]

I'm fairly new at this, and still mostly an extract brewer, but my favorite brew is Northern Brewer's "Ace of Spades IPA." I've brewed it three times, and every bottle was delicious! As with all such things, de gustibus non est disputandem. (Latin for, "If you don't like this, your tastebuds must have died!")

There are many styles that are not big, commercially. But if you enjoy the style, that's the essence of homebrewing. Getting to make the beers YOU enjoy, market forces notwithstanding.

Pulchritudo in oculis aspicientis. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

 

[user 298779]

I'm fairly new at this, and still mostly an extract brewer, but my favorite brew is Northern Brewer's "Ace of Spades IPA." I've brewed it three times, and every bottle was delicious! As with all such things, de gustibus non est disputandem. (Latin for, "If you don't like this, your tastebuds must have died!")

The Ace of Spades is one that’s on my rotation. The all-grain recipe is excellent and very popular with my beer drinkers

 

[tyrub42]

I think they're still around, but were never hugely popular with the average drinker. Lots of Asian breweries are putting out black IPAs in the last few years, which is pretty cool IMO (I live in Taiwan so I hear a lot about what's happening in TW, HK, Japan, Korea, etc)

 

[tyrub42]

Yeah, I’m with OP. Same with Brüt IPAs that seem to be just about gone in the NEIPA craze. I prefer the term Cascadian Dark ale because it just makes more marketing sense to me, but whatever you call it a hoppy dark ale is welcome in my home.

This sorta thing is what I love about being a home brewer. The market will do what it does, but I can keep great styles that I love on rotation. If I can’t get friends and family to drink then maybe I’ll brew them infrequently, but my wife loves the brut IPA I have on tap and am dialing in.

also, for commercial examples that were great, I loved the Firestone Walker Wookey Jack.

To be fair, bruts came around well after NEIPAs and I think their popularity was influenced by people being bored with NEIPAs and wanting something as different as possible while still being fruity with low bitterness. I think they fell out of fashion because they weren't really very innovative or different. Just a fruity IPA that was extra watery.

 

[Teufelhunde]

I have 5 gal of Ace of Spades with dry hops in right now.....

 

[wetmk]

This is how I feel about the CDA argument. Cross Dressing Amateurs!

I too prefer my cross dressers to be professionals

 

[madscientist451]

I think Dogfish head came out with India Brown Ale before the black IPA thing? Not sure if it qualifies, and its been discontinued but is being released again this fall. Haven't had one in a while but I think I liked it and would buy the new version if I see it.
Clone recipe:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/dogfish-head-indian-brown-ale-clone/

 

[tyrub42]

I think Dogfish head came out with India Brown Ale before the black IPA thing? Not sure if it qualifies, and its been discontinued but is being released again this fall. Haven't had one in a while but I think I liked it and would buy the new version if I see it.
Clone recipe:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/dogfish-head-indian-brown-ale-clone/

There's a while bjcp subcategory for brown IPA but I've never seen one besides DH, and never known a homebrewer who brewed one. Kinda weird when you think about it (unless they were super popular before 2002 and I just missed it )

 

[Twinkeelfool]

I was sceptical when they first came out but dark and hoppy does work really well I think, surprisingly

 

[maxr]

Wookey Jack was great, and apparently, it's back in cans, albeit with very limited sales:
https://www.firestonebeer.com/beer/wookey-jack/

 

[Kold Brygg]

anyone got a decent recipe to share?

You could try to contact the brewery and ask for the recipe, lots of craft breweries share.

Some even put recipes up without asking like Norwegian 7 Fjell. Here is their Black IPA recipe.

https://www.7fjellbryggeri.com/recipe/brewoursvartediketblackipa/

This is the one to get if you can find it. Stone Sublimely Self-Rightous Black IPA. I’m currently working on a clone recipe, still needs to be dialed in.

Before I tried this, wasn’t too sure about the black IPA thing. I tried it and this beer was FANTASTIC! Go out and find some, you won’t be disappointed.

If you ain't aware of the thread I'm sure you'll get some ideas for the recipe here .
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/stone-xi-anniversary-clone.51521/

 

[BongoYodeler]

Wookey Jack was great, and apparently, it's back in cans, albeit with very limited sales:
https://www.firestonebeer.com/beer/wookey-jack/

Yes. I think I remember hearing FW was retiring it from a regular brewing schedule, it but would bring it back on occasion.

 

[Jayjay1976]

With super hazy being all the rage, and dark beers don't display hazy well, maybe that's why the style didnt catch on. Could also imagine the hipsters didn't appreciate roasted notes competing with hop flavor and aroma.

 

[Shenanigans]

There's one here in Germany I still need to try called Black Shark.
Someone I know posted his clone attempt on the internet.
He was quite please with it and I might give it a go myself sometime.

The original is 8.5% but he toned it down to about 7%.

5.5 Gallons 62 IBU OG 1.065 Color: 40 L
Yeast MJ M42

Pilsner Malt (51%)
Munich Malt 1 (22.4%)
Vienna Malt (10.2%)
Smoked wheat malt (5.1%)
Caraaroma (400 EBC) (5.1%)
Chocolate Malt (900 EBC) (3.1%)
Carafa Special II (3.1%)

IBU 62
Polaris 25g, 60 min
Cascade (D) 21g,10 min
Cascade (D) 21g, 5 min
Vic Secret: 35g Whirlpool

Dry Hop:
14 g Citra
22 g Sorachi Ace
25 g Vic Secret

M42 is like Nottingham but you can use any American ale yeast of your choice or even WLP007.
The Polaris had 18.9% alpha acids so you can sub it out with another high alpha bitter hop.
Also American cascade can be used instead of German.

 

[beersk]

There's one here in Germany I still need to try called Black Shark.
Someone I know posted his clone attempt on the internet.
He was quite please with it and I might give it a go myself sometime.

The original is 8.5% but he toned it down to about 7%.

5.5 Gallons 62 IBU OG 1.065 Color: 40 L
Yeast MJ M42

Pilsner Malt (51%)
Munich Malt 1 (22.4%)
Vienna Malt (10.2%)
Smoked wheat malt (5.1%)
Caraaroma (400 EBC) (5.1%)
Chocolate Malt (900 EBC) (3.1%)
Carafa Special II (3.1%)

IBU 62
Polaris 25g, 60 min
Cascade (D) 21g,10 min
Cascade (D) 21g, 5 min
Vic Secret: 35g Whirlpool

Dry Hop:
14 g Citra
22 g Sorachi Ace
25 g Vic Secret

M42 is like Nottingham but you can use any American ale yeast of your choice or even WLP007.
The Polaris had 18.9% alpha acids so you can sub it out with another high alpha bitter hop.
Also American cascade can be used instead of German.

Smoked wheat malt, interesting addition.

 

[Miraculix]

Smoked wheat malt, disgusting addition.

Ftfy

 

[beersk]

Ftfy

Ha! It was the most diplomatic response I could think of.

 

[Miraculix]

Ha! It was the most diplomatic response I could think of.

Sometimes it's good to be German

 

[Shenanigans]

Smoked wheat malt, interesting addition.

5% smoked wheat shouldn't stick out too much.
It should compliment the chocolate and Carafa.
I have some left over from a Grätzer, which is 100% smoked wheat and was actually quite refreshing
So I will give it a try.

According to the guy who made the recipe it's the Sorachi Ace dry hop that makes it a bit different; in a good way.
Toasted coconut from the malts and Sorachi with pineapple from the Vic Secret.

 

[beersk]

5% smoked wheat shouldn't stick out too much.
It should compliment the chocolate and Carafa.
I have some left over from a Grätzer, which is 100% smoked wheat and was actually quite refreshing
So I will give it a try.

According to the guy who made the recipe it's the Sorachi Ace dry hop that makes it a bit different; in a good way.
Toasted coconut from the malts and Sorachi with pineapple from the Vic Secret.

That's a strange recipe. I definitely would not want 5 gallons of that sitting around. Maybe not even 2.5 gallons. But I'd probably drink a pint for kicks.

 

[madscientist451]

That's a strange recipe.

I'm going to save that recipe and gather a few things I don't already have. Likely brew a 2.5 gallon batch and reduce the smoked malt by 1/2.
Hopefully I'll get around to it and post the results before some virus takes away my taste buds.....

 

[Shenanigans]

I'm going to save that recipe and gather a few things I don't already have. Likely brew a 2.5 gallon batch and reduce the smoked malt by 1/2.
Hopefully I'll get around to it and post the results before some virus takes away my taste buds.....

Good stuff, let us know how it goes.
I don't have any Sorachi Ace at the moment and am waiting until the 2021 hop crops are widely available in the shops I order from before I order anything new.

The smoked wheat is really quite mild if you have never had it before.

 

[bwible]

The 2015 guidelines for IPA only has 2 subcategories now. I never undrstood why they needed a dozen subcategories for IPA in the first place. Wyeast still lists them all under some of their yeasts.

 

[Steverus07]

To be fair, bruts came around well after NEIPAs and I think their popularity was influenced by people being bored with NEIPAs and wanting something as different as possible while still being fruity with low bitterness. I think they fell out of fashion because they weren't really very innovative or different. Just a fruity IPA that was extra watery.

i dunno about that description. With preference obviously your mileage may vary, but I found them to be the unanswered promise of the IPL… crisp and flavorful. Have had plenty of undesirable examples, so I see why you’d say that.

 

[Consigliere]

To be honest I don’t get very hung up on style definitions. Brew Dog DIY recipe book has a very hoppy “Porter” called Libertine Porter that I made last winter. I really enjoyed it and would recommend it as a recipe for people to look at.

 

[Steveruch]

Good stuff, let us know how it goes.
I don't have any Sorachi Ace at the moment and am waiting until the 2021 hop crops are widely available in the shops I order from before I order anything new.

The smoked wheat is really quite mild if you have never had it before.

I added one pound (mini-mash) to a three gallon wheat beer and it was very faint. I have an all-grain BIAB on my schedule for early next year.

 

[stealthfixr]

Harbottle Brewing (Harbottle Brewing Company Home and Merchandise) in Tucson has a fantastic Black IPA called "Blindside" that I am loving right now. If you are near Tucson, drop by a pickup a four pack (or more...fantastic up and coming brewery).

While I really like Black IPAs, it's not a stout that you hop the crap out of. Huskless, non-astringent roasted malts only, please...and lots of piney hops. I just made the MoreBeer Black IPA by DOZE, and it was a treat. Yes, IPAs come in all types, colors and hop signatures, from a dank pine forest to a fruity strawberry milkshake--love them all. This IS the fun of homebrewing, being able to make anything you can think of.

 

[Miraculix]

I must say, although I am really really disgusted by smoked beer (personal taste), I had a porter from a German brewery that used a hint of smoked malt in it and it was actually one of the best porters I've had so far.

 

[PCABrewing]

I must say, although I am really really disgusted by smoked beer (personal taste), I had a porter from a German brewery that used a hint of smoked malt in it and it was actually one of the best porters I've had so far.

On a whim a few years back I decided to try some smoked malt.
I never did get around to brewing with it but I discovered it makes a tasty snack to munch on.

I could see using it as a flavor adjunct in a Black IPA Ale.
Dry Hop it or not? Maybe a piney hop.

 

[Miraculix]

On a whim a few years back I decided to try some smoked malt.
I never did get around to brewing with it but I discovered it makes a tasty snack to munch on.

I could see using it as a flavor adjunct in a Black IPA Ale.
Dry Hop it or not? Maybe a piney hop.

The porter I had had literally zero hop aroma, but quite some roast/toast that the hint of smoke went very well with. I cannot imagine this to work with hop aroma/flavour. But that might just be me. I tried schlenkerla once and and strongly disliked it, so apparently I'm really the wrong person to give an adequate opinion on smokey beers

 

[PCABrewing]

The porter I had had literally zero hop aroma, but quite some roast/toast that the hint of smoke went very well with. I cannot imagine this to work with hop aroma/flavour. But that might just be me. I tried schlenkerla once and and strongly disliked it, so apparently I'm really the wrong person to give an adequate opinion on smokey beers

Well that's why I posted the question, I could see the smoke conflicting with hop aroma.

 

[beersk]

I must say, although I am really really disgusted by smoked beer (personal taste), I had a porter from a German brewery that used a hint of smoked malt in it and it was actually one of the best porters I've had so far.

A number of years ago Lefthand Brewing released a Smoked Baltic Porter for their Fade to Black winter seasonal. I really really enjoyed that beer. And I rarely enjoy smoked beers.

 

[Shenanigans]

Well going off topic here but IIRC the original London Porters would have all been a bit smokey as back then the grains were mostly malted over a wooden fire.
My favourite non-IPA home brew beer I brewed was a Meantime London Porter clone which had 8% rauch malt in the malt bill.

 

[Brooothru]

Black IPA is my jam - my favorite IPA style - you should brew it with Cascade if you're going true CDA. Piney, with very slight roast

My house Black IPA/CDA:
59.5 IBU 6.1%ABV SRM 39

61.5% Pils
23.1% 2row
7.7% Caraf II or III - Dehusked if you can
4.4% Victory
3.3% 40L

Hopping for 4 gallons
28g FWH Cascade 37.3 IBU
20g 30m Cascade 13.5 IBU
20g 15m Cascade 6.5 IBU
10g 5m Cascade 2.2 IBU
20g FO Cascade 0 IBU

Lutra Kveik - I prefer as its clean and fast
WL001 - my second choice

That's the one! It looked like Black IPA would be the next First Best Thing about ten years ago. I brewed one for a limited competition (only 4 categories: Pale, IPA, can't remember the other two.... Anyway, the beer turned out really nice and the judges had a lot of favorable comments, but it got DQ'd for style (Too dark. Duh).

Within a few months you started seeing a number of commercial offerings, with the beer snobs effetely calling it Cascadian Dark Ales (CDAs). It was a pretty good style IMHO, but seemed to have died out pretty quickly. Of course it is now a BJCP sub-style of IPAs. Go figure.

 

[tennesseean_87]

I may have to do one of these up soon, depending on what's in my freezer. I'll probably use some carafa special and roasted barley/chocolate, but cold steeped overnight in strike water to have a really smooth roast profile.

 

[Deric]

Been following along.... I've had a few great Black IPAs. LOTS of mediocre to terrible. Looking a @Spikybits recipe - any suggestions on water profile?

 

[tyrub42]

i dunno about that description. With preference obviously your mileage may vary, but I found them to be the unanswered promise of the IPL… crisp and flavorful. Have had plenty of undesirable examples, so I see why you’d say that.

I hear ya, and I've had a few that I enjoyed...but tbh I only had one in which the brut aspect seemed like a positive (whereas most would have been preferable if they had some extra gravity points and ibu to compensate for them), and that was a brett brut. The brett gave it substantial perception of body despite ending at like .999 and the Brett flavors melded so well with the hops. Wish I had some more of it right now haha.

And I see what you're saying in that bruts don't NEED to be fruit bombs...but all of the ones I've had were. Maybe one with some oily centennial and ctz would be better . Otoh I also never really liked IPLs so maybe there is some correlation there like you said.

Out of curiosity, what are your favorite hops to play with when you make them? And are you adding enzymes to the fermenter for real super dry bruts, or do you add to the mash and end in that 1.00x range?

 

[Shenanigans]

Maybe it's time to make a black brut IPA?

 

[tennesseean_87]

Maybe it's time to make a black brut IPA?

I would think the roast needs a little something malt-wise to support/carry it.

 

[HamiltonBrian]

I just made this. Super stoked for it. I love black IPA and wish it were still around. I don't understand why every brewery needed to make them super strong. What's wrong with just a 6-7% abv like any other IPA? I like to make a couple batches of black IPA every year. According to my tilt, this started at 1.065 and finished at 1.011, for 7%. Was aiming for more like 6.6%, but that'll do. Now debating whether to dry hop or not...

None More Black!

​

Type: All Grain	Date: 10/23/2021
Batch Size: 5.50 gal	Brewer: Jesse
Boil Size: 6.50 gal	Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min	Equipment: Beersk Brewhaus
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0	Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
Taste Notes:
Ingredients​
​ Amount​ Item​ Type​ % or IBU​ 12 lbs​ Pale Ale Malt (3.5 SRM)​ Grain​ 85.71 %​ 1 lbs​ Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)​ Grain​ 7.14 %​ 1 lbs​ Midnight Wheat (550.0 SRM)​ Grain​ 7.14 %​ 1.00 oz​ Columbus/Idaho 7 [10.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop)​ Hops​ 31.7 IBU​ 1.00 oz​ Columbus/Idaho 7 [10.00 %] (20 min)​ Hops​ 17.4 IBU​ 1.00 oz​ Columbus/Idaho 7 [10.00 %] (15 min)​ Hops​ 14.3 IBU​ 1.00 oz​ Columbus/Idaho 7 [10.00 %] (10 min)​ Hops​ 10.4 IBU​ 1.00 oz​ Columbus/Idaho 7 [10.00 %] (5 min)​ Hops​ 5.7 IBU​ 1.00 oz​ Columbus/Idaho 7 [10.00 %] (0 min)​ Hops​ -​ 2 Pkgs​ BRY-97 (Lallemand)​ Yeast-Ale​

Love the use of BRY 97. Possibly my favourite yeast.