Black Hole Imperial Stout Critique

loveofrose · May 25, 2014

Long time brewer/mazer, but this is my first attempt at a stout. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Black Hole Imperial Stout
5 gallons, Partial Mash
1.113~OG → 1.025~FG
11.5% ABV
62 IBU
38.5°L SRM

Partial/Steep
30 minutes, 150 F
Chocolate - 8 ounces
Crystal 120L - 8 ounces
Black Patent - 6 ounces
Barley (Roasted) - 2 ounces

Fermentables
12 pounds Maris Otter LME
3 pounds Honey

Boil- 1 hour, 5 gallons

Hops
3 oz Centennial for 60 min.
1 oz Northern Brewer for 2 min
1oz Centennial for 2 min

Miscellaneous, Flameout
500 ml Cold Press Coffee
2 ounces Cacao Nibs
3 Vanilla Beans

Yeast
Danstar - Nottingham Ale - 4 packs

Better brewing through science!

jnacey · May 25, 2014

This depends on what kind of flavors you're looking to get.

I'd say your vital stats (OG, FG, IBU, etc) are all well within range.

As far as flavors go, are you looking more for chocolate, coffee or a burnt taste? The black patent looks a bit high, that stuff is really potent and lends itself to an ashy taste that in my experience does not mellow out with age. I'd drop the patent and up the chocolate malt to a pound and the roasted to half a pound.

The honey will serve to thin this out a bit, is that what you're going for? You don't really need the bump in alcohol, unless that's what your plan was.

I've also had success layering in a few different types of crystal malts for some complexity -- maybe like a half pound each of 40, 80, 120.

Maybe this was a miscommunication, but everything labeled "Misc, Flameout" would be better served being added after fermentation. As for the coffee, using 2oz of grinds with 10oz of water cold steeped overnight in a french press yields IMO a perfect coffee taste. 2oz of cacao nibs won't come through at all on this beer, I'd up that to 6-8oz if you want it to be present. 3 vanilla beans is a lot, 1.5 beans sliced and emptied all into the fermenter is probably better.

Finally, if you're able to get liquid yeast, a healthy starter of WY1278 Scottish would work nicely with this.

Sorry, this is a lot, I'll summarize:
1) Maybe drop the patent, up chocolate and RB. Layer different caramel malts.
2) Maybe cut the honey down or drop it all together.
3) See tips for coffee above. Bump up nibs. Halve vanilla beans.

This is a tough style to get right. A lot of people do a "kitchen sink" approach and throw all of this stuff in there. Let this age for a bit too. Good luck!

loveofrose · May 25, 2014

Excellent post. Thanks for all the info here. Now to clarify what I am going for so that you can help me further (I hope!).

I definitely want zero burnt flavors (no black patent malt is a loud and clear; maybe debittered just for color ?). I want a malty backbone with balanced notes of coffee, chocolate, and vanilla. I want the honey in there both to fortify strength and the unique flavor from the honey (meadowfoam varietal: hard to find and tastes like marshmallows!). I want it very strong, but to not be as heavy bodied as a normal imperial stout. I'm not focused on "accurate to style" so much as accurate to what I want it to taste like. I know. It's a curse to know exactly what you want. I'm not satisfied until I get it there !

I've also had success layering crystal malt for complexity, but that is not really what I'm going for here. More coffee/chocolate/vanilla with caramel as more of a background note. Perhaps I'm not seeing the full potential here?

I would prefer to add all miscellaneous to secondary like I do in mead, but I'm worried about contamination in beer. I know yeast in primary ferment can metabolize vanillin, hence the vicious addition of vanilla. Maybe I'm worried about nothing and secondary addition is fine?

Cold pressed coffee is a staple in my house. Order some Viennese blend coffee from Royale Blend in New Orleans for cold press. I promise you won't be disappointed. It is really phenomenal. My normal ratio for brewing is dead on with yours, so I think all is well there. I love coffee. My wife loves it more

. Hence, the 1.5x addition.

Yeast. I'm a microbiologist by training, so I'm picky about yeast. I had originally thought to use Scottish ale for this beast (great minds think alike), but I can only ferment at 70-74 F and was worried about high temp induced fruity flavors/smokiness clashing with the coffee/chocolate/vanilla. Any thoughts on this or alternative suggestions?

I'm actually not a kitchen sink person. I like to balance things on a knife blade. People historically like my brews because of the perfect balance I strive for. I do not expect this to be perfect the first time around, but I like peer review to get it in the ballpark. Especially from folks that have done this style before. I appreciate any of your insights and experiences!

Thanks again and in advanced !

Better brewing through science!

jnacey · May 27, 2014

loveofrose said:
Excellent post. Thanks for all the info here. Now to clarify what I am going for so that you can help me further (I hope!).

I definitely want zero burnt flavors (no black patent malt is a loud and clear; maybe debittered just for color ?). I want a malty backbone with balanced notes of coffee, chocolate, and vanilla. I want the honey in there both to fortify strength and the unique flavor from the honey (meadowfoam varietal: hard to find and tastes like marshmallows!). I want it very strong, but to not be as heavy bodied as a normal imperial stout. I'm not focused on "accurate to style" so much as accurate to what I want it to taste like. I know. It's a curse to know exactly what you want. I'm not satisfied until I get it there !

I've also had success layering crystal malt for complexity, but that is not really what I'm going for here. More coffee/chocolate/vanilla with caramel as more of a background note. Perhaps I'm not seeing the full potential here?

I would prefer to add all miscellaneous to secondary like I do in mead, but I'm worried about contamination in beer. I know yeast in primary ferment can metabolize vanillin, hence the vicious addition of vanilla. Maybe I'm worried about nothing and secondary addition is fine?

Cold pressed coffee is a staple in my house. Order some Viennese blend coffee from Royale Blend in New Orleans for cold press. I promise you won't be disappointed. It is really phenomenal. My normal ratio for brewing is dead on with yours, so I think all is well there. I love coffee. My wife loves it more . Hence, the 1.5x addition.

Yeast. I'm a microbiologist by training, so I'm picky about yeast. I had originally thought to use Scottish ale for this beast (great minds think alike), but I can only ferment at 70-74 F and was worried about high temp induced fruity flavors/smokiness clashing with the coffee/chocolate/vanilla. Any thoughts on this or alternative suggestions?

I'm actually not a kitchen sink person. I like to balance things on a knife blade. People historically like my brews because of the perfect balance I strive for. I do not expect this to be perfect the first time around, but I like peer review to get it in the ballpark. Especially from folks that have done this style before. I appreciate any of your insights and experiences!

Thanks again and in advanced !

Better brewing through science!

Alright, going off this makes it a little easier. I've used debittered/carafa malts in the past with good results. Although, if you up your chocolate malt I'd imagine the color would be quite black (but I didn't do the math on it). People really throw a ton of different malts in these, but in my experience some balanced, well thought out malt additions in higher proportions almost make this style better.

If you want the honey in there and it adds something special (which is sounds like it does...delicious) then definitely keep it. It'll definitely add a different touch and serve to lower the body, both of which you sound like you want.

I agree that the layered crystal malts may not be what you're going for on this one. I've always enjoyed it, but you've got a lot going on in this beer that will definitely overwhelm the subtleness of layered crystal malts.

Don't worry about contamination in the secondary, the alcohol levels will be quite high in this one. Vanilla will be fine, cacao nibs will be fine. Boil and then cool the water for the cold press and make sure you star san your cold press first.

As far as yeast goes, your temp is a bit on the high side. I've dealt with the no temp control situations, so I feel your pain. You're honestly going to have that same problem with Nottingham. All English yeasts will generally throw off the fruity flavors at higher temperatures. I've never really had a problem with those flavors though, so YMMV. The only thing I might worry about with Nottingham is alcohol tolerance up to this level...I know the Scottish can handle it, I'd be less certain with dry yeast going that high. Be sure to rehydrate.

I'm by far from an expert on the style, but I've brewed quite a few so this is just from my experience. Some of the BYO "Tips from the Pros" articles have been helpful for me. Let me know if you have any more questions.

dcp27 · May 29, 2014

If you can only ferment at 70-75F I would not brew this right now. a beer this big, that warm is not going to taste great, especially with nottingham (which is gross >70F). Look into a swamp cooler, its pretty easy way to keep temps lower.

honey is highly fermentable, so even at 3#s you're not going to get a lot of flavor left behind from it. I'd add it during fermentation to retain as much flavor as possible.

6oz of black patent would be fine, I've use 8oz in a few RIS without any ashy character. however, more roasted barley is definitely needed in this so you can just swap out the black patent for more of it.

make sure to sanitize the vanilla/cocoa unless you do add them at boil. i would suggest adding them after fermentation, however 3 vanilla beans would be too much in that case.

why the 2oz of late hops? it sounds like you're trying to drive coffee/chocolate notes and those are just going to interfere.

loveofrose · May 29, 2014

Thanks for the replies here. In light of the excellent advice here, I think I will do the following:

Drop the black patent as use the following:
12 oz chocolate malt
8 oz Crystal 120L
8 oz Barley
Should be plenty dark at 42L!

I'm thinking of using Wyeast 1388 instead of Nottingham or Scottish ale. This is my house yeast and is generally very clean at these temperatures.

Lose the late hop additions.

Add cacao nibs, 1 vanilla bean, and medium toast American oak cubes in secondary. I can sanitize in a bit of vodka before dumping in.

How does this plan sound?

Better brewing through science!