Bitter Beer Face...Uggh!

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Pubwilson

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I recent made the jump to AG, but I am sure I will go back and forth as money and time permit.
My question is about my last two brews were somewhat bitter, and even though I am no beer expert, I know something went wrong somewhere during the brewing process. One was a cream ale recipe (w/specialty grains) I got from HBT and another was a Cooper's Dark Ale (extract only) which I am trying to stomach now. I made a Belgium IPA recipe from my LHBS and it was great, so I know I am capable of making some decent homebrew. What is it in a brewday that can go wrong to cause the beer to be overly bitter?
The only thing I have recently learned is not to squeeze out my hops bags, and just to let them drain. Thanks in advance for any advice to help me. i am tired of making excuses to friends and co-workers on why I haven't produced and beer yet. :(
 
I am not sure if you were doing full boils before but you will get better utilization out of the hops and not need as much with full boils so if you are using the same amount as before, you may be using a lot of hops :) which is good in my mind.
 
post a recipe with hop amounts and boil times... and your procedure...


If they are too hoppy now pack them away in a closet and let them age... hops diminish over time.
 
Fermentation temps were about 65-68. I have a JC on my chest freezer.
I never did full boils until my first AG. I also recently added a scale to my equipment to help measure my hops more accurately.
I am just trying to fix my extract methods as somedays I don't have time for an AGer.
 
I didn't have a scale for years split hops in half by eye for 1/2 ounce another 1/2 to get to 1/4 oz... brewed about 100 gallons this way.

LOL when I got my scale I needed a 1/2 ounce... I eyeballed it, put them on the scale... 1/2 ounce on the dot.
 
how good of a handle do you have on mash temps? Do you know what your mash PH is?


I'm thinking astringency here.
 
Well that's what I have been doing. Eyeballing the hops. I don't think I have been off by that much, so it must be something else.
 
how good of a handle do you have on mash temps? Do you know what your mash PH is?


I'm thinking astringency here.
I wasn't doing AG yet, but my steep temps were always well monitored. Does astringency only apply to AG?
 
Astringency applies to anything with grains, even extract. Steep/Mash small and boil big! Also, do you have really soft water? That'll do it too!
 
scales are under 10 bucks at target...i highly recommend one...i did all grain in a bag before making a 10g mlt and they were a little off...it works well to steep for partial mashs but a mlt allows for sparging and keeps one from squeezing the grain. you will get clearer wort and a cleaner beer.

I'm sure some people have better luck steeping all grain batches. to me, partial mash is a better choice until you have a mlt to sparge...

my .02
 
How much hops, what type, and how long, did you use in your overly hopped cream ale?
Did you crush your own grains... were they really finely crushed? that might do it.
 
Astringency applies to anything with grains, even extract. Steep/Mash small and boil big! Also, do you have really soft water? That'll do it too!

Their water is quite hard... that might have something to do with it. If you are doing extract then it might be a good idea to use bottled water.

http://www.saws.org/our_water/waterquality/Report/charts.shtml

If you are doing AG and want to make some water adjustments then here is a great site for doing that:

http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/EZ-water-calculator.htm
 
How much hops, what type, and how long, did you use in your overly hopped cream ale?
Did you crush your own grains... were they really finely crushed? that might do it.

Here it is StarrFish,
5 lbs Dry Ex Light Malt Extract
3/4 lb Munich Malt
1/2 lb Biscuit Malt
1 oz Tettnang Hops 6%(Boiling) 60 mins
1 oz Crystal Hops(Flavor) 2 mins
Wyeast 1056 American Ale

I am not a hophead by any means, but I feel that I know the difference between an overly hopped beer and just beer that's bitter. I am still learning though, and all things said hops were the only bittering agent I used.
 
Their water is quite hard... that might have something to do with it. If you are doing extract then it might be a good idea to use bottled water.

http://www.saws.org/our_water/waterquality/Report/charts.shtml

If you are doing AG and want to make some water adjustments then here is a great site for doing that:

http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/EZ-water-calculator.htm
Thanks nealf for tracking that stuff down. I would not have thought that water could do something like that. I knew that we had hard water in my area, and my home doesn't have a water softner. My brewbuddy was going to add spring water to his monthly delivery, so that might help also. I purchased some 5.2 yesterday from my LHBS in hopes of doing an AG tonight after work. I think I am goping to try the 5.2 with my water first and then if that falls short, I will use spring water next brewday.
In reference to the other comment, I do have MLT & HLT cooler setup for my AG brewing, but this thread is in reference to my extract brewing. I have yet to taste the fruits of my AG labor. I keg my first one tonight, and since I know longer shake my kegs, it won't be till next Friday till I know whether or not my AG efforts were successful.
 
2 minute additions is going to be aroma not flavor. 1 ounce at 60 minutes. 29.5 IBUS. Not bad by any means. Actually out of style on the low side for a Pale Ale. Low on the IBU:GU Ratio as well. That recipe should not be overly bitter. Actually more Malt forward for a Pale Ale.
Looks like possibly water profile or what temps are your steeping your grains at??
 
2 minute additions is going to be aroma not flavor. 1 ounce at 60 minutes. 29.5 IBUS. Not bad by any means. Actually out of style on the low side for a Pale Ale. Low on the IBU:GU Ratio as well. That recipe should not be overly bitter. Actually more Malt forward for a Pale Ale.
Looks like possibly water profile or what temps are your steeping your grains at??
Thanks RevIP, I will definitely do that. Brewing has got me and my wallet by the throat!
 
IBU's seem like they are in spec for style with 18IBUs in yours and 20-22IBUs being high end of style, maybe back off there some too. I used the average Alpha Acid % for both 4.5% for 1 oz of Tett and 3.5AA% for 1 oz Crystal. 1 oz seems a bit high on the finish hop for a cream ale... it's going to leave a lot of hop aroma (2minutes doesn't add much to the overall IBUs ((one IBU point for 1oz of Crystal)) just aroma.) I might just suggest knocking back or taking out the aroma hops altogether if your not a hop head. Too much aroma hops can take a delicate cream ale out of balance (I use tastybrew.com recipe calculators to get in the ballpark of a particular style ((will highlight in red if over or under spec) another good resource is: http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles (cream ale listed below)

Here's the BJCP style guide for a cream ale:
6A. Cream Ale

Aroma: Faint malt notes. A sweet, corn-like aroma and low levels of DMS are commonly found. Hop aroma low to none. Any variety of hops may be used, but neither hops nor malt dominate. Faint esters may be present in some examples, but are not required. No diacetyl.

Appearance: Pale straw to moderate gold color, although usually on the pale side. Low to medium head with medium to high carbonation. Head retention may be no better than fair due to adjunct use. Brilliant, sparkling clarity.

Flavor: Low to medium-low hop bitterness. Low to moderate maltiness and sweetness, varying with gravity and attenuation. Usually well attenuated. Neither malt nor hops prevail in the taste. A low to moderate corny flavor from corn adjuncts is commonly found, as is some DMS. Finish can vary from somewhat dry to faintly sweet from the corn, malt, and sugar. Faint fruity esters are optional. No diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Generally light and crisp, although body can reach medium. Smooth mouthfeel with medium to high attenuation; higher attenuation levels can lend a “thirst quenching” finish. High carbonation. Higher gravity examples may exhibit a slight alcohol warmth.

Overall Impression: A clean, well-attenuated, flavorful American lawnmower beer.

Comments: Classic American (i.e., pre-prohibition) Cream Ales were slightly stronger, hoppier (including some dry hopping) and more bitter (25-30+ IBUs). These versions should be entered in the specialty/experimental category. Most commercial examples are in the 1.050–1.053 OG range, and bitterness rarely rises above 20 IBUs.

History: An ale version of the American lager style. Produced by ale brewers to compete with lager brewers in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic States. Originally known as sparkling or present use ales, lager strains were (and sometimes still are) used by some brewers, but were not historically mixed with ale strains. Many examples are kräusened to achieve carbonation. Cold conditioning isn’t traditional, although modern brewers sometimes use it.

Ingredients: American ingredients most commonly used. A grain bill of six-row malt, or a combination of six-row and North American two-row, is common. Adjuncts can include up to 20% flaked maize in the mash, and up to 20% glucose or other sugars in the boil. Soft water preferred. Any variety of hops can be used for bittering and finishing.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.042 – 1.055
IBUs: 15 – 20 FG: 1.006 – 1.012
SRM: 2.5 – 5 ABV: 4.2– 5.6%

Commercial Examples: Genesee Cream Ale, Little Kings Cream Ale (Hudepohl), Anderson Valley Summer Solstice Cerveza Crema, Sleeman Cream Ale, New Glarus Spotted Cow, Wisconsin Brewing Whitetail Cream Ale

Here's my cream ale only has .5 oz as finish which is a bit high for style, but I like this beer with a bit more pre-prohibition style, as I'm more used to bigger english/american ales

Cream Ale - All Grain Recipe:
4.25 pilsner malt
4.25 2 row malt
1 lb flaked maize
1.5 oz Saaz 60 min
.5 oz Saaz 2 min
tsp Gypsum
irish moss

US-05 Ale yeast
3/4 cup corn sugar prime

152° infusion mash held 90min
Sparge 180°

Specs based on 77% mash efficiency and 80% yeast efficiency of US-05:
OG 1.048
FG 1.010
IBU18
SRM 2
ABV 4.9%

Are these beers young? aging will take care of some hop balance issues esp. in the aroma realm. Sounds like I'd like your cream ale!

Just keep experimenting decrease hop levels and maybe try some english hops... they tend to be a bit "softer" in flavor. fuggles, goldings, willamette. hope this helps.
 
It would also be better if you could more accurately describe the type of "bitter" issue.

What does it taste like?

The type of bitter sensation you're getting can allow everyone to get closer to designated your particular issue, be it water profile or a flaw in the brewing process, itself.
 
Even if a 1 1/4lbs of grain was boiled for a short time it shouldn't add too much astringency. Had a buddy boil that volume of specialty grain for about 10-15min and it was fine... (got distracted by a phone call and specialty grains where at a full rolling boil)

I had really hard water when I lived in PA, I even added gypsum too it, and didn't have any astringency problems. Did taste some hard well water homebrews that it became noticeable...

My bet is hop varieties, addition times, and quantities just need to be adjusted for brewers taste... delicate Cream Ale out of balance with a big hop aroma. (which will effect taste)
 
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