Biggest Obstacle Stopping You from Going Pro?

[njviking]

I wanted to start a brewery in 2007 then the economy went in toilet. Looking back i just should have done it, at the time i think there were then like 4 craft breweries in the state and maybe 10 brewpubs. Now forget it, ill wait till the bubble bursts and then start a farmhouse brewery.

 

[Hoppity]

Bar-B-Q, Blues & Brewpub is my Walter Mitty reverie, but I know I'd rather visit it than live it.

 

[Carusoat]

I don't understand this "I don't wanna brew for anyone else" argument. One one hand I understand that you brew what you wanna drink. Totally fine with that. Why wouldn't other people buy that? I mean I'm assuming most of us are talking about small breweries here. Almost every small brewery I go to in the North East starts with the guy saying "I brew what I want to drink." If you wanna be a huge brewery then sure I understand you'd have to put out some less interesting beers. But on a small level I don't think you do. And even if you did, would it be that bad to brew that 4% centennial blonde for the "non-craftbeer drinking" crowd?

 

[schematix]

Brewing is hard work. My day job is easy and pays enough for a comfortable lifestyle.

 

[GHBWNY]

My 2 favorite hobbies are fishing and homebrewing. I have a feeling that if I went pro in either of them, it would cease to be fun and become work. No reason I should feel stress from fishing or brewing.

I have thought about helping out in a brewery as a semi-retirement type job though someday. Not a lot of stress because I wouldn't be the one making the decisions and worry about the business. There was a small brewery up near our lake place in Walker, MN, but that has disappeared

Agree. If I HAD to fish 300+ days out of the year to keep food on the table and kids in college, it would NOT be fun. If I had to brew beer 300+ days a year to keep food on the table and kids in college, it also WOULD NOT be fun.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

(Edited for clarity, it cancelled the 2014 SoCal Homebrew Festival, and has moved it to a place that makes it much less accessible for homebrewers across the state in 2015 and going forward)

To be fair, the law wasn't the reason we're not at Lake Casitas. From what I understand, the management of that site didn't much like us, and the feeling was mutual.

 

[Phunhog]

And that law completely screwed up some parts of the annual National Homebrewers Conference & Competition that will be in San Diego next week.

We can't bring homebrew to the banquet because it's being catered by Lagunitas. Certain parts of the conference will be designated for serving homebrew only, and certain parts for serving commercial only. What a cluster %@&#@$&. It may make the AHA rethink having NHC in California again.

And do you know how that language was introduced into the bill? It was introduced by the California Craft Brewers Assoc to protect their membership breweries!! Of course they "say" they are trying to protect the beer drinker. Sound familiar? http://www.californiacraftbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/summary-of-bills.doc.pdf Is there any good reason why commercial and homebrewed beer has to be seperate? Why didn't the AHA try to change the final language? Let's face it the AHA is run by the BA and make no mistake they will serve commercial brewers first and foremost. Otherwise why aren't they trying to change the law and remove the language especially if it means that they won't have future NHC's in CA. The part that really gets me going is look at the Saturday AM panel on homebrewing law at the NHC. It features the Director of the CCBA....the same guy who introduced the controversial language.
Maybe I am looking at it all wrong but my homebrew has raised thousands of dollars for local charities. These charities benefit cancer research, underprivledged children, and a local environmental group. When I pour beer at the NHC or the SCHF who does it benefit? Me? Some other homebrewers? Talk about a circle jerk!! You know what I want to see? A homebrewers festival put on by a local charity where anyone can go (not just members only) and all the money raised goes towards the charity.

 

[Sidman]

You know I think the money is in selling stuff to all the craft brewers in a local retail Gig. The craft brew beer selection here in Austin is crazy with the local groceries selling 20+ linear fridge space of craft brews. Would be hard to break through the crowd without a huge advertising campaign.

 

[bob1852]

A homebrewers festival put on by a local charity where anyone can go (not just members only) and all the money raised goes towards the charity.

That would be cool. Wonder if these guys are/were doing something like this?

http://www.homebrewersassociation.o...issued-first-annual-radegast-club-year-award/

 

[wtaylor3]

I much, much, much prefer my day job to brewing. To some people, that might sound like I'm saying "I hate brewing," but not everyone hates their job. I honestly don't think I would be happier brewing full time than I would be doing what I do now. Plus, I would make way way way way way less money brewing (even assuming I could stay in business and turn a profit) than what I do now.

So file me under "not interested in doing it for a living."

Besides, there are an insane number of microbreweries, craft breweries, and so on in California anyway.

We DEFINITELY do not have the same job, that being said my reason is financial. I have a dream of going pro however I have no start up capital and I don't want to finance any part of a start up other than the building itself.

 

[OleBrewing]

I don't understand this "I don't wanna brew for anyone else" argument. One one hand I understand that you brew what you wanna drink. Totally fine with that. Why wouldn't other people buy that? I mean I'm assuming most of us are talking about small breweries here. Almost every small brewery I go to in the North East starts with the guy saying "I brew what I want to drink." If you wanna be a huge brewery then sure I understand you'd have to put out some less interesting beers. But on a small level I don't think you do. And even if you did, would it be that bad to brew that 4% centennial blonde for the "non-craftbeer drinking" crowd?

I don't look at going pro as shipping to all corners of the US of A. I believe brewing should be local. Bringing the community together as it once was. To take pride and self community is where it should be at.

 

[FatDragon]

Lots of regulations here in China, including some that essentially prohibit non-macros from bottling or canning beer, and if you can navigate the regs and the immature market and establish yourself anyway, all it takes is a competitor or detractor with the right connections and you could be shut down/taken over by the government or forced to sell out. This is true for anyone including Chinese citizens, but once foreigners start making a splash in the market they're in serious risk of losing everything because the Chinese hate being upstaged at home.

One can partner with Chinese citizens or businesses to reduce the chances of catastrophic regulatory shutdown, but at an equal or greater risk of being pushed out by said partners once things start running smoothly.

I want to brew here, and I'm looking into some possibilities including brewing for bars or restaurant chains, but the regulations about packaging severely limit the opportunities for growth, and the general risks of doing business here as a foreigner, along with the other facts of money and lack of knowledge of pro brewing and the fact that I'm not really that good of a brewer yet are all serious impediments for now.

 

[xandersaml]

Maybe you can point me to a link that further explains how it is awful. I'm not seeing how designating certain parts of a conference or event as "homebrew only" and certain parts of a conference or event as "commercial beer only" is a real problem.

National HOMEBREWERS Conference. Just sayin'

 

[SpeedYellow]

The poll forgot the obvious choice: "The market is already saturated." I have the resources and desire but wouldn't do it in this climate. We're about 15 years too late. The bubble is going to burst in the next couple years when consumers get burned enough on lousy microbrew and say "screw the whole category."

 

[xandersaml]

The poll forgot the obvious choice: "The market is already saturated." I have the resources and desire but wouldn't do it in this climate. We're about 15 years too late. The bubble is going to burst in the next couple years when consumers get burned enough on lousy microbrew and say "screw the whole category."

Local breweries/brewpubs are not necessarily saturated. And no one is going to force you to brew crappy beer.

 

[jmtwo]

The bubble is going to burst in the next couple years when consumers get burned enough on lousy microbrew and say "screw the whole category."

So because I've had a few bad micros, I'm going to give up the ones I love and go back to Bud or Coors? I'm pretty sure the bad ones will just bite it and the good ones will continue on.

 

[LandoLincoln]

National HOMEBREWERS Conference. Just sayin'

...sponsored by commercial breweries. You could fix the problem by having homebrewers sponsor the conference. But then people would have to pay more money.

 

[LandoLincoln]

The poll forgot the obvious choice: "The market is already saturated." I have the resources and desire but wouldn't do it in this climate. We're about 15 years too late. The bubble is going to burst in the next couple years when consumers get burned enough on lousy microbrew and say "screw the whole category."

My hometown's population: 147,806
Number of breweries: zero.

 

[jbaysurfer]

To be fair, the law wasn't the reason we're not at Lake Casitas. From what I understand, the management of that site didn't much like us, and the feeling was mutual.

We probably don't run in very different circles, but I went to many of the meetings. To put a fine point on it, the interpretation of the law by the local ranger and the local ABC office is the reason we're not at Lake Casitas. Which kind of brings this whole discussion home. It was one person's interpretation of the law that led to AZ's comment, and my expounding on it.

The feeling mutual thing is left to the individuals to decide. The turn out this year vs. in 2014 (when virtually every other major festival grew) is probably a good litmus test. I personally really liked that particular site, and it's central location, but that's just a personal preference.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Weird that so many people are denying the market saturation right now, since it's pretty commonly accepted. Examples:

1. Founders CEO: “We will see a bit of a bubble burst in the next five years or so.”
http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2013/08/beer_bubble.html

2. Brewers like Alchemist and Stone Are Worried About A Collapse
http://www.businessinsider.com/alchemist-craft-beer-market-boom-bubble-outlook-2013-12

3. Dogfish Head's Sam Calagione: “There’s a bloodbath coming.”
http://www.bonappetit.com/drinks/beer/article/too-many-craft-beers

Can you start a brewery today and be successful with good beer? Yes, sure. But it's going to be a whole lot harder than several years ago.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Pretty sure no matter how creative your interpretation of the CA law is, it doesn't preclude you from the production maximums of 200G per year.

 

[Phunhog]

Pretty sure no matter how creative your interpretation of the CA law is, it doesn't preclude you from the production maximums of 200G per year.

Absolutely! However if I don't keep track of how much I brew not sure how anybody else can.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Edit: no point....

 

[bobeer]

I don't mind working hard, working long hours, staying up late, getting paid less to do something I love, coming up with marketing, juggling the books, dealing with govt agencies to get licensing, etc, etc... My main hurdle is finding a partner in crime to share the laundry list of tasks with. I could start a nano by myself but I'd want to make more beer than what a nano could produce so I could make my time worth more money. It would be almost impossible to start up a 7+ bbl brewery on my own.

 

[bob1852]

Absolutely! However if I don't keep track of how much I brew not sure how anybody else can.

And if there's no body, it's not murder...


That's why I despise these "loopholes."

If you brew more than 200g a year (assuming you have two adults in the house), it's against the law. To not keep records to avoid breaking the law is not following the law.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Money would be the big one so thats why I voted for that. Skill would be part of it as well, but in a year I'll be that much more skilled, but still too poor to be able to afford business loans anyway.

I'm hoping that after one of the local breweries finishes their new location they have to expand their brewing capacity they pick up assistant brewers (mash tun cleaners, 50lb bag carriers) I will apply and pick up a second job. I wouldnt be "pro" so to speak, but I would get to work in the business while still being a homebrewer.

 

[orangehero]

Weird that so many people are denying the market saturation right now, since it's pretty commonly accepted. Examples:

1. Founders CEO: “We will see a bit of a bubble burst in the next five years or so.”
http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2013/08/beer_bubble.html

2. Brewers like Alchemist and Stone Are Worried About A Collapse
http://www.businessinsider.com/alchemist-craft-beer-market-boom-bubble-outlook-2013-12

3. Dogfish Head's Sam Calagione: “There’s a bloodbath coming.”
http://www.bonappetit.com/drinks/beer/article/too-many-craft-beers

Can you start a brewery today and be successful with good beer? Yes, sure. But it's going to be a whole lot harder than several years ago.

That graphic tells us that there are more breweries now than in 1890, but the US population is also almost 5 times bigger. So going by the graph there is room for 7000 more breweries to open.

 

[bob1852]

The blood bath isn't going to be # of breweries, it's going to be with distribution licensing/laws and beer naming conflicts (both companies and actual beer names). That's already happening and is only going to get worse as existing breweries need to defend their names and their turf.

 

[Clonefan94]

I'm with the no desire crowd. I love brewing beer, I take special pride in the beer that I brew, but I have helped out at a brewpub before and honestly, brewing every day, as a job, I would think would take the joy out of it for me. I brew when I have time and treat it as my time for relaxing and enjoying free time. I think turning it into a job would take a lot of what I consider fun, out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I have repeatability, I brew a house amber regularly that is my middle of the road beer, craft beer drinkers like it and BMC drinkers like it. So I try to keep that on tap. I usually brew it once every 4 or 5 brews. Which is fine on my time scale. But commercially, you have to have more than one in regular rotation and I think I like to twist things up too much to enjoy having to brew the same thing on a daily basis.

It's definitely a profession I admire and certainly love to lend a hand at the local brewpub when I get a chance, but to do it day in and day out, would definitely take some of that "love" i have for brewing away.

 

[Phunhog]

And if there's no body, it's not murder...


That's why I despise these "loopholes."

If you brew more than 200g a year (assuming you have two adults in the house), it's against the law. To not keep records to avoid breaking the law is not following the law.

Did you actually just compare murder to homebrewing laws? Honestly I don't think I have ever gone over 200g. But again it is not something I keep strict tabs on.
Anyways all I am saying is that some of the onerous regulations regarding homebrew in California were if not placed, at least supported by a group representing commercial brewers.

 

[bbohanon]

It's a hobby. If I went pro, assuming I had the financial resources to do it, it would cease being a hobby and become a job. I already have a job, which probably pays better anyway.

This +100

 

[bbohanon]

My hometown's population: 147,806
Number of breweries: zero.

Sounds like you need a partner and some investors and the sky is the limit!

Here in Charlotte, NC, there is a new "craft" brewery popping up monthly it seems and most of what I get from them as "flagship" or "cornerstone" beers is all IPAs, IIPAs or Sours and none of them are anything special to be honest.

I am so over the IIPA/Super-IPA/IPA craze and have been for close to a year now. Seriously. Just stop.

 

[AK7007]

I could see owning a place and developing recipes that somebody else actually brews, and loving that job. I can't imagine actually brewing large scale for sale to be anything other than soul killing. (and that's besides the crap wages that being a brewer entails when you open up your own place)

 

[Remmy]

The biggest are up-front costs ($200-250K to start a brewery) and a salary of $30K/year versus a six-figure salary. I wouldn't brew beer for anything less, although I really love brewing as a hobby.

 

[njviking]

That graphic tells us that there are more breweries now than in 1890, but the US population is also almost 5 times bigger. So going by the graph there is room for 7000 more breweries to open.

True, but you also did not have mass transportation or pasteurization. in 1890 we were basically a local economy.

That being said, I find it amazing that I can get beer from all corners of the globe in basically a week.

to try compete with that and the marketing is a hurdle that will not be easily overcome.

However; in my neck of the woods we are having a resurgence of local buying/producing.

I do like the idea of a homebrew/teaching school. Unfortunately we have a couple within 45 min. again tough to crack into.

 

[dpatrickv]

No real desire to go pro. Im an IT guy, I like what I do and I like my comfy desk chair and cold work lab.

Starting a brewery is a helluva lot of work, for little return in the beginning, not to mention all the rules.

Bottom line. Im lazy.

 

[Carusoat]

I don't mind working hard, working long hours, staying up late, getting paid less to do something I love, coming up with marketing, juggling the books, dealing with govt agencies to get licensing, etc, etc... My main hurdle is finding a partner in crime to share the laundry list of tasks with. I could start a nano by myself but I'd want to make more beer than what a nano could produce so I could make my time worth more money. It would be almost impossible to start up a 7+ bbl brewery on my own.

Man I wish you lived in New Hampshire. I feel the exact same way.

As for the market saturation thing, I'd agree that on a distribution level it is saturated and would be pretty difficult to start a brewery now and compete with Sierra Nevada or other large companies like that. However I have no desire to be Sierra Nevada and at least around here there's room for a whole lot more local small breweries.

 

[Quaffman]

The fact that's I'd be broke is the biggest factor. Maybe if breweries paid anything I'd consider it, but for now I'll keep doing it as a hobby.

 

[bobeer]

Man I wish you lived in New Hampshire. I feel the exact same way.

As for the market saturation thing, I'd agree that on a distribution level it is saturated and would be pretty difficult to start a brewery now and compete with Sierra Nevada or other large companies like that. However I have no desire to be Sierra Nevada and at least around here there's room for a whole lot more local small breweries.

If I ever relocate I'll let you know.

I also wouldn't want to be a huge brewery either. I'd want to have a good location and offer great beer that's brewed in a semi small batch scale. I'd also want to have my "thing" for food whether it be a few good pizzas to choose from or a handful of sandwiches, burritos, whatever. The need to offset the income from something other than small batches of beer would be needed for what I'd want. I wouldn't want to lose the freedom that homebrewing gives you. Ahh, to dream...

 

[unionrdr]

I still like the idea I've had for years to open a pit bbq that's also a brewpub. Pit bbq'd ribs, brisket, chicken & house-made Slovak & Hungarian sausage. My own Irish red once I get it where I want it, Kottbusser, hybrid lager, pale ale...some for drinking & some to go with bbq...