Big mistake

[PinkPanther]

Hello everyone. I'm a beginner and I've made a huge mistake while making my first beer (APA). I don't know why, but i brewed wort on 154f instead of 212f... Beer is in the fermenter, airlock is working. I know I messed up, but is there any chance that this "beer" can be drinkable?

 

[seabrew8]

How can you not know why? "but i brewed wort on 154f instead of 212f"

What were you thinking?

 

[PinkPanther]

There is too much information, and I got confused...
Everything else was fine...
p.s. i did all grain

 

[bigdaddybrew]

There are some no boil sour beers. Not sure what else to say. Try reading some of the "stickies" at the top of the various forum catagories before your next batch.

 

[seabrew8]

Are you saying you never boiled the wort?

 

[PinkPanther]

I didn't. I kept it at 154f for 60 minutes.

 

[seabrew8]

Tell us how it turns out then! It will still get you a buzz.

 

[charliethebum]

You will likely have 0 isomerization at that temperature (meaning no hop bitterness to offset the sweetness of the malt) and will also likely grow some nasty bugs as 154f isn't nearly hot enough for sanitation, much less sterilization. That being said, if it were me I'd let it ride and if it doesn't become infected(you'll know) force myself to drink every bottle as a penance or dump it and try again. You should at least wait until it ferments out and taste your hydro sample. If it's undrinkable then toss it.
Edit: give it 3 weeks in the fermenter. Don't even look at it except to make sure the temperature stays good

 

[PinkPanther]

I will I'm such a *******...

Thanks charliethebum.

 

[seabrew8]

You will likely have 0 isomerization at that temperature (meaning no hop bitterness to offset the sweetness of the malt) and will also likely grow some nasty bugs as 154f isn't nearly hot enough for sanitation, much less sterilization. That being said, if it were me I'd let it ride and if it doesn't become infected(you'll know) force myself to drink every bottle as a penance or dump it and try again. You should at least wait until it ferments out and taste your hydro sample. If it's undrinkable then toss it.

What kind of bugs?

 

[charliethebum]

What kind of bugs?

http://https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=71400

 

[fun4stuff]

While it isn't going to taste right due to decreased hops isomerization, it may not become infected. Water is safe to drink after heating water to 160 degrees for 30 mins. Op did 154 for 60 mins. If they pitched a big enough starter, maybe yeast will get a jump on thjngs and out compete any of the bacteria that may be remaining?

 

[charliethebum]

I will I'm such a *******...

Thanks charliethebum.

Don't mention it. It's not a matter of being a *******, it's a matter of experience. The brewing process can seem overwhelming at first but I bet you don't make that same mistake again just keep trying you'll get your process nailed down soon enough

 

[12thHoleBrewer]

Does anyone know if this would work? Boil some bittering hops with some malt extract in a mini batch, maybe 1/2 gallon after evaporation. Cool it down and add to the original beer. I've never tried this but others n the board might be able to weigh in. Might be a method to add some bitterness to balance out the malt.

BTW, every homebrewer makes mistakes. The end result may not be exactly what you were going for, but most of the time, you still end up making beer (which isn't a bad thing!)

 

[fun4stuff]

Does anyone know if this would work? Boil some bittering hops with some malt extract in a mini batch, maybe 1/2 gallon after evaporation. Cool it down and add to the original beer. I've never tried this but others n the board might be able to weigh in. Might be a method to add some bitterness to balance out the malt.

BTW, every homebrewer makes mistakes. The end result may not be exactly what you were going for, but most of the time, you still end up making beer (which isn't a bad thing!)

sounds like it would work, but how do you figure out how much hops and what volume to use? i think it could be hard to to ball park it especially since the hops would be boiled in a much smaller volume

 

[12thHoleBrewer]

I found a couple of posts with some ideas. One was to boil hops in a small amount of liquid and add to your wort. The other is to add some pre-isomerized hop extract. Either way you're kind of in experimental territory but adding a least some bitterness will make your beer more drinkable. If you pick a method below, it would be best to add a little of your hop liquid (or extract), stir very gently and taste a sample. If there's not enough bitterness, you can always add more but if it's too bitter you can't take it away.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=194895

http://byo.com/stories/item/664-forgot-the-hopsoven-mashing--fresh-hops-mr-wizard

 

[PinkPanther]

I did two batches of beer in 3 days. First time I made the same mistake with the temperature, but I didn't know that I made the mistake, and also I boiled hops together with the malt, and I realized that mistake in the middle of the process. Because I didn't know what to do, and there was no one to ask for help, I continued to boil the wort hoping there will be some bitterness. After boling I tried the wort and it was sweet. After I pitched the yeast, I asked on some forum(non-english) for help and one guy told me the same thing as 12thHoleBrewer, so I boiled 40gr of hops for 60 minutes in 2l of water and added to the fermentor.
I was ashamed to mention this when I opened this topic, beacuse maybe I'm the only guy who made two rounds making stupid mistakes...
When I did the second round, I was happy cause I thought that I did everything good, but when I saw that the OG is 1.062 instead of 1.047 I knew I screwed something again. Later on I realized that mistake with the temperature. This time, I tried the wort, and it had really nice bitterness.
All in all, I have two fermenters with 15l each of screwed beer, so my expectations are really low, and I can't wait to make good beer.

 

[IslandLizard]

Here's some good reading: John Palmer's How to Brew. It's an older online version of his famous book. I'd say it's indispensable as a comprehensive source for brewing.

There are many "bugs" (e.g., bacteria, wild yeasts, spores) that grow on grain/malt. One of the most prolific is Lactobacillus, the same kind that will sour milk, can also sour your beer. To kill the bugs, we pasteurize by heating to higher temps. 165°F for at least 5 minutes being often used as a standard. Now lower temps will work if held at longer times, and since you had it at 156F for an hour, chances are it's still OK.

You could make "hop tea," but it works better if you used wort instead of water. You will have to boil it for at least 30 minutes to an hour to isomerize, which creates the bitterness we taste. Using wort also prevents excessive dilution of the beer you're adding it to.

I must say, you're very brave to openly admit this kind of mistake on a brew forum. I sent you a "like" just for that!

 

[12thHoleBrewer]

Don't feel bad. It sounds like you were following a procedure very carefully, which is a good trait to have as a homebrewer. It turned out to be the wrong procedure and you've learned from that.

If you've added the mini batch with hops and after fermentation the beer is still too sweet, consider dry hopping with 2 ounces of an aroma hop. It won't necessarily add bitterness but the hop aroma may balance out the beer.

Would you mind posting the recipe for you high OG beer? The high reading indicates more sugars than you were expecting. Also what temperature did you take the gravity reading and was the liquid at the full volume (5 gallons for example)?

 

[fatherdan]

print out a brewday checklist. were you drinking when you did this?

 

[PinkPanther]

Boil time: 60min
Batch size 15l (fermentor volume)
Boil size 17l
Efficiency: 50%

OG 1.049
FG 1.011
ABV 4.9%
IBU 41.19
SRM 11.09

3,9kg German Pale Ale
0,4kg UK Crystal 60L
0,25kg German Wheat Malt

HOPS:
20g cascade 60min
20g cascade 15min
10g cascade 5min
10g amarillo 5min

Yeast US-05

 

[ThatVideoKid]

You probably just got better efficiency that 50%

 

[BowAholic]

I had a friend do the same thing...he realized it about an hour after he pitched the yeast. He just poured the bucket back into his brew kettle and boiled it...yeast and all. I took him some yeast to pitch after he finished. It was great beer. He doesn't drink (as much) while he brews these days...
It will be interesting to see your results.

 

[PinkPanther]

print out a brewday checklist. were you drinking when you did this?

The second time I had a checklist, but on it it said that I'm supposed to boil at 68c. My mistake...
No, I didn't drink, but the first time I "cooked" beer there were a lot of friends and I realized it is a big mistake to have bunch of people talking, laughing... Second time there was only one friend and it was much better.
Better luck next time. Thanks everyone.

 

[soccerdad]

These days I often brew alone. Did so today. But my first batch - hell, my first 10 - were brewing with someone more knowledgeable than I.

 

[Dixon9717]

I can't brew with a crowd I get distracted to easily. I have only one friend over at a time when I brew and less chance of drinking to much....

 

[PinkPanther]

my first 10 - were brewing with someone more knowledgeable than I.

Lucky you.
Someone mentioned How To Brew by Palmer. I did read the book, but as I come from a non-English speaking country there are a lot of new English words and abbreviations like wort, mash tun, OG, FG etc. It's getting "clearer" as the days pass by and I read about brewing more and more. I think my next batch should be without big problems. Till then, I will read one more time HTB by Palmer.

 

[PinkPanther]

Would you mind posting the recipe for you high OG beer? The high reading indicates more sugars than you were expecting. Also what temperature did you take the gravity reading and was the liquid at the full volume (5 gallons for example)?

I've posted the recipe, but I forgot to mention the temperature, it was 24.5c=76.1f. I planned 15l, and I had 15l=4gal.

 

[seabrew8]

Lucky you.
Someone mentioned How To Brew by Palmer. I did read the book, but as I come from a non-English speaking country there are a lot of new English words and abbreviations like wort, mash tun, OG, FG etc. It's getting "clearer" as the days pass by and I read about brewing more and more. I think my next batch should be without big problems. Till then, I will read one more time HTB by Palmer.

If you not english. Just focus on grains, water and yeast. All those terms like HLT, mash tun, FWH, sparge etc took me a few years to learn and i'm english!

1. Soak grains in hot water.
2. Boil with hops.
3. Cool to room temp.
4. Pitch yeast.
5. Wait.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you not english. Just focus on grains, water and yeast. All those terms like HLT, mash tun, FWH, sparge etc took me a few years to learn and i'm english!

1. Soak grains in hot water.
2. Boil with hops.
3. Cool to room temp.
4. Pitch yeast.
5. Wait.

^ This looks like a brewing disaster to happen!

I know you tried to simplify the process, but in this case definitely too much. Don't forget the OP did an All Grain brew!

 

[seabrew8]

^ This looks like a brewing disaster to happen!

I know you tried to simplify the process, but in this case definitely too much. Don't forget the OP did an All Grain brew!

Making beer is on a physical level very simple and i think its good advice.

We all love beer and making it but its really not magic like a lot of us think.

i'm willing to bet you can show your neighbor how to make beer in less then 30 minutes with your system and it will be just has good or better then the same beer that you made.

 

[IslandLizard]

Making beer is on a physical level is very simple and i think its good advice.

We all love beer and making it but its really not magic like a lot of us think.

I only said that because if taken literally, we could foresee a next thread titled: I boiled my grain with hops! :smack:

 

[PinkPanther]

Guys, should I leave this "beer" in the fermentor for 3 weeks, or I can bottle them earlier(e.g. after 2 weeks) and leave them somewhere in order to get the ferementors so I can make new beer?

 

[IslandLizard]

Guys, should I leave this "beer" in the fermentor for 3 weeks, or I can bottle them earlier(e.g. after 2 weeks) and leave them somewhere in order to get the ferementors so I can make new beer?

Obviously you need to study more on How to Brew Beer.

You cannot bottle until the beer is done, which means, fermented out completely. If you were to fill your bottles with beer that still has fermentable sugars left, they will turn into bottle bombs, and explode at will.

How do you know the beer is done?
As a rule of thumb, after 2-3 weeks of fermentation* take a gravity sample and again 3 days later. Only if both measure the same AND are close to your expected final gravity (FG) it's usually safe to bottle.

*Beer can take shorter or longer to ferment out. It depends on many factors, like ingredients used, OG, yeast, fermentation temps, etc.

One thing you need to forget about is secondary fermentors. There's no need for those. NONE! (unless you bulk age, do sours, or other tricky things).

If you want to brew another beer, get another fermentor. Food grade buckets are cheap.

 

[PinkPanther]

Yes, I know I'm supposed to measure FG 3 days in a row, and if it's the same it should mean the fermentation is over. I was thinking not to wait three weeks, but to check after 12 days and if it is like mentioned above (3 days the same), to bottle it.
My OG was supposed to be 1.047, but I had 1.062. What FG should I expect now?

 

[Mark3885]

Here's some good reading: John Palmer's How to Brew. It's an older online version of his famous book. I'd say it's indispensable as a comprehensive source for brewing.

There are many "bugs" (e.g., bacteria, wild yeasts, spores) that grow on grain/malt. One of the most prolific is Lactobacillus, the same kind that will sour milk, can also sour your beer. To kill the bugs, we pasteurize by heating to higher temps. 165°F for at least 5 minutes being often used as a standard. Now lower temps will work if held at longer times, and since you had it at 156F for an hour, chances are it's still OK.

You could make "hop tea," but it works better if you used wort instead of water. You will have to boil it for at least 30 minutes to an hour to isomerize, which creates the bitterness we taste. Using wort also prevents excessive dilution of the beer you're adding it to.

I must say, you're very brave to openly admit this kind of mistake on a brew forum. I sent you a "like" just for that!

Just like islandlizard said it takes balls to admit mistake like that.......
I made a simple american amber for my first try and read john palmers book beforehand .That american amber, just like all my other brews turned out, fantastic My 3rd brew session was the american amber again. Same recipe.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes, I know I'm supposed to measure FG 3 days in a row, and if it's the same it should mean the fermentation is over. I was thinking not to wait three weeks, but to check after 12 days and if it is like mentioned above (3 days the same), to bottle it.
My OG was supposed to be 1.047, but I had 1.062. What FG should I expect now?

You don't measure it 3 days in a row, but 3 days apart. If not the same, measure again 3 days later (or longer), etc. until it matches the previous one.

If your OG was 1.062, using ~10% crystal, I estimate your FG to be around 1.014. With US-05 it may drop to 1.012. And with your low "boil" temp of 156F it maybe even a point or 2 than that.

 

[PinkPanther]

Thank you IslandLizard!

 

[mongoose33]

Lucky you.
Someone mentioned How To Brew by Palmer. I did read the book, but as I come from a non-English speaking country there are a lot of new English words and abbreviations like wort, mash tun, OG, FG etc. It's getting "clearer" as the days pass by and I read about brewing more and more. I think my next batch should be without big problems. Till then, I will read one more time HTB by Palmer.

FWIW, I am a native English speaker and they are just as "foreign" to me, so don't feel bad.

FWIW, II: I can see how one might confuse a 60 minute mash with a 60 minute boil. It's one reason why I think starting with an extract brew is a good idea. I brewed three extract brews before my first all grain attempt and I still screwed a couple things up.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out--we can learn from this no matter what happens.

 

[charliethebum]

Guys, should I leave this "beer" in the fermentor for 3 weeks, or I can bottle them earlier(e.g. after 2 weeks) and leave them somewhere in order to get the ferementors so I can make new beer?

3 weeks is a good rule of thumb. Chances are it will be fermented out in 7-10 days, but post fermentation the yeast metabolize certain off flavor causing biproducts of the fermentation process.