Big hop flavor with 1/3 the hops

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puney_the_youkel

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I want to share a technique for maximizing hops by using a french coffee press to add hop aroma an flavor to beer.
In summary, I make a strong wort with primarily bittering hops. For these additions, I use high IBU hops and boil for at least sixty minutes. I make the wort between 10%-20% stronger than usual by using less water, but the same grain bill.

At the end of fermentation, I make a very strong hop tea in a one liter french coffee press. Generally, I add one liter of boiling water to two ounces of aromatic hops which steeps for approximately sixty minutes. I add this tea to the keg and replete by adding another liter of boiling water and steeping for another sixty minutes, for a total of approximately two liters of hop tea. This hop tea essentially brings the final volume of beer up to my desired five, or ten gallons.

Finally, I finish the beer as usual. Force carbonate and chill for about a week.

The results are very profound. I am producing a hop flavor and aroma with two ounces of hops, which previously required three to four times the amount of hops. My double IPA once required a pound of hops, most of which were used for aroma and flavor, now requires around four ounces per five gallons of beer.

Give it a try. As an experiment, make a strong hop tea with a french press and add it to an existing lightly hopped beer in a keg. Or on a smaller scale, make a cup of hop tea and add a portion of it to a pint of Pale Ale or IPA.

This technique works very well for me. I am able to continue to make my highly-hopped Double and Triple IPA's with a reasonable amount of hops.
 

Chello

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yeah....

i get full flavor and aroma out of maybe 1oz of hops during my boil. I suppose for an IIPA it would use more, but i don't see how making a hop tea would reduce the amount of hops needed?
 

BarleyWater

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Chello said:
but i don't see how making a hop tea would reduce the amount of hops needed?

I have heard it mentioned as a means of bittering for a partial boil to help in utilization, but that was for bitterness and AA extraction, and I'm not sure how well that would work either, but that may reduce the quantity of hops necessary to achieve a desired ibu.

The essential oils that make up the aroma and flavor compounds seem like they would be in the same concentration in the beer, regardless of the method used to get them in. And I have gotten plenty of aroma out of my IIPAs and Imperial Pilsners with 1-2oz of hops. Especially from pellet hops, it isn't giong to take much to get out all of the essental oils.
 
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puney_the_youkel

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ilikestuff said:
Have you seriously thrown a pound of hops into 5gal of beer?

Pretty much all I make is Double and Tripple IPA's. Until I started adding hop teas, a pound of hops was my minimum. My tripple had 8oz dry hopped in each keg alone.
I can reach the same hop intensity now, with two ounces.
Keeping up with the Russian River Brewing IPA's takes lots of hops.

Recipe:
Type: All Grain
Date: 1/28/2008
Batch Size: 10.00 gal
Boil Size: 10.35 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: BREWTREE- 15 Gallon Brewing System
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
30 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 86.96 %
3 lbs Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 8.70 %
1 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2.90 %
8.0 oz Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 1.45 %
4.00 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
5.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
4.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 55.1 IBU
5.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12.30 %] (60 min) Hops 13.0 IBU
4.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.40 %] (20 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 23.7 IBU
4.00 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] (15 min) Hops 12.6 IBU
7.00 oz Cascade [6.60 %] (10 min) Hops 17.8 IBU
3.00 oz Vanguard [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 6.3 IBU
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
2.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
20.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
2 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter 125 ml] Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.098 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.090 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.023 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.85 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 10.23 %
Bitterness: 128.6 IBU Calories: 412 cal/pint
Est Color: 10.9 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 34.50 lb
Sparge Water: 4.21 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Saccharification Add 43.13 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F
10 min Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F



Mash Notes: Temperature mash for use when mashing in a brew pot over a heat source such as the stove. Use heat to maintain desired temperature during the mash.
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Volumes of CO2: 2.4
Pressure/Weight: 21.6 PSI Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 60.0 F Age for: 28.0 days
Storage Temperature: 52.0 F
 
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puney_the_youkel

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Chello said:
yeah....

i get full flavor and aroma out of maybe 1oz of hops during my boil. I suppose for an IIPA it would use more, but i don't see how making a hop tea would reduce the amount of hops needed?

I think that less is needed by using a French Press because nothing is lost during fermentation. More is gained than conventional dry-hopping because hot water extracts more flavor from the hops than can be extracted at cellar temps.
 

BarleyWater

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Not able to get Russian River here, but the highest hopped IIPA's I can get my hands on aren't that hopped up for their clone recipes (DFH IPA's, Stone, Great Divide Hercules).

My last IIPA came in calculated at 172.6 ibu with 5.5oz of high AA bittering hops, another 5oz for aroma and flavor, and that's with a 1.106 OG. I can't imagine using that many hops to dry hop (I usually use 2-3oz), and I love hops more than anyone I have ever met. Bet you lost alot of beer to the hops absorbing it.

But hell, you made one with a half pound just to dry hop, seems like a lot to me, but also sounds like something I want to try. Just wondering, what were the numbers on that brew; ibu, abv, og? And I bet the hop situation is making your wallet a little smaller these days.
 
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puney_the_youkel

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When I used to brew with that much hops, I lost tons of wort to hop absorption. note the differnece between estimated and measured OG. The dfference is due to over sparging to get the final volume up a little. That recipe had 18 ounces of dry hops. Beersmith did not include the hops I added to the keg.
You are dead right about the cost of hops. With the use of Hop teas, I am spending alot less.

From Beersmith:
Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.098 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.090 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.023 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.85 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 10.23 %
Bitterness: 128.6 IBU Calories: 412 cal/pint
Est Color: 10.9 SRM Color: Color
 

daryk77

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Interesting, I have heard that making hop tea is ideal for dry hopping but I was under the impression the water should not be above 75 C (170 F), otherwise you will loose a lot of the hop aroma. Also just use enough water to cover the hops and add it immediately to secondary. This is what Gerard Lemmens says in a basic brewing podcast anyway and the way I do it with good results.

It seems like the actual flavor and aroma between using a quarter pound and a half pound dry hops would be difficult perceive since it is a ton of hops either way.

But sounds like you like your results so I say keep on doing it!
 

RadicalEd

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I'm pretty sure the coffee press is just a simple and easy way to extract the hop bits from the tea before adding it to the fermentor ;). Really should work pretty well for getting as much tea outta there as possible.
 

BierMuncher

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This reminds me of several ponderences I've had of late:

1) How much hops aroma/flavor is carried off by CO2 during active fermentation? (And why wouldn't dry-hopping be the preferred method vs late boil additions?)

2) Could a hop-concentrate tea be brewed, saved and then several drops added to individual beers prior to pouring according to taste?

3) Would simply steeping dry hops in 150 degree water for 20 minutes prior to adding to dry hop vessel improve flavor/aroma extraction? (I now steep all my hops ahead of time, bittering, flavor, aroma and dry hops)

You can see I have a lot of empty space in my head for random beer thoughts.
 
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puney_the_youkel

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killian said:
do you need a coffee press? couldn't you just strain the hops off from the tea?

I like the french press because the screen keeps the hops submerged and contains the tea. I feel that it keeps the aroma from escaping more than an open container. It also allows me to gently express the tea out of the hops.
 
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puney_the_youkel

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daryk77 said:
Interesting, I have heard that making hop tea is ideal for dry hopping but I was under the impression the water should not be above 75 C (170 F), otherwise you will loose a lot of the hop aroma. Also just use enough water to cover the hops and add it immediately to secondary. This is what Gerard Lemmens says in a basic brewing podcast anyway and the way I do it with good results.

Good info, I will give a try to see if it affect the flavor.
Note that the French Press kind of keep the tea from loosing a lot of aroma. The screen keeps the hops submerged and the lid prevents a lot of steam from evaporating
 

z987k

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Holy **** that is a lot of hops.... are we in the 200 ibu range? I mean if you like the bitterness that much go for it, but overkill.

One thing I think your missing in your making of hop tea is that hops lose all their flavor and aroma around the 45 minute mark. From there on out it's all bitterness. So if you're actually going for flavor/aroma of the hops you should boil for much less time, especially since it's just water. Say 5-10mins tops?
 

daryk77

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puney_the_youkel said:
Good info, I will give a try to see if it affect the flavor.
Note that the French Press kind of keep the tea from loosing a lot of aroma. The screen keeps the hops submerged and the lid prevents a lot of steam from evaporating

Yeah, hopefully that will keep most of the aroma floating away. I say try doing a batch where you steep the hops for less time and see what effect that has on the flavor and aroma. Should have even more than the longer steeping time, and would be easy to do.
 

david_42

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This is a bit like doing a flameout add, but delaying the addition until after the fermentation would boost the retention of oils. Before CO2 extraction became common, heat extraction was the standard method for making hop bittering and aroma concentrates.

I think 14 ounces is a personal maximum for me, but at the last Hop Madness, someone claimed to have used 24 ounces in five gallons.

Note: Regardless of what the software says, it is very difficult to go over 100 IBU. The solution saturates and none of the common tools take this into consideration.
 
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puney_the_youkel

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daryk77 said:
Yeah, hopefully that will keep most of the aroma floating away. I say try doing a batch where you steep the hops for less time and see what effect that has on the flavor and aroma. Should have even more than the longer steeping time, and would be easy to do.


Good advice. I will give it a go
 

homebrewer_99

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BierMuncher said:
2) Could a hop-concentrate tea be brewed, saved and then several drops added to individual beers prior to pouring according to taste?
I actually purchased some concentrated liquid hops form eBay...;)

Couldn't say for sure what hop(s) were used, but it works when you have a sweeter brew you want to bitter up a bit.
 
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puney_the_youkel

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david_42 said:
This is a bit like doing a flameout add, but delaying the addition until after the fermentation would boost the retention of oils. Before CO2 extraction became common, heat extraction was the standard method for making hop bittering and aroma concentrates.
Note: Regardless of what the software says, it is very difficult to go over 100 IBU. The solution saturates and none of the common tools take this into consideration.

Your statements regarding hop oil retention are very similar to advice that got from Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River Brewing during one of my visits to the brewery. Vinnie advised me to focus my hop additions after fermentation. He said for me to chill the beer to drop the yeast, add hops and let them sit for one to two weeks.
As I can remember, he felt that the yeast absorbed some of the hop oils, thus flavor and it was essential to get the yeast out of the way to allow the hop flavor remain in the beer.
What I have tried with these experiments to combine the technique of getting the yeast out beer and extracting the hop flavor with hot water similar to a hopback that contains the aroma. I liken the making of a hop tea, to making my own hop oil extract that I add to the beer.
So far, I an very happy with the results. It has proven to be a very efficient way to add hop flavor and aroma to the beer.
 

Chello

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the major advantage i see hear is the minimal lost of beer apposed to dry hopping in secondary. Whole hops soak up a bunch of delicious beer!
 

WortMonger

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I am building a hop inducer out of a canister filter so I can get the "green" right before my glass. I mean you have to run beer through and let it sit before you start using it, but I have heard this gets the freshest flavor and aroma out there.
 

Schlenkerla

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I'm getting thoughts like Biermuncher...

I have an expresso machine,... What would happen if I packed the ground chamber w/ pellet hops and made a dupio. (Double Cup) Then pitched that in the secondary.

Being a little more sanitary, another thought is canning just hops and water. Pressure cook 30 minutes. When its cool pitch it into the 2ndary.

puney_the_youkel - Thanks for the thought provoking idea!!
 

Chello

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So using this technique seems like you could cut your time in half for brewing , say, a pale ale that you wanted to dry hop.

Could you not just dry hop a liter or so of water for the same duration that your beer is in the primary, and then (i keg) poor your dry hopped water in the keg and rack on top of it? Thus you don't waste much beer that would have gotten stuck in your hops, cut down on the time if you only were to secondary purely to dry hop, and there would be little or no hop sediment for those who usually dry hop in the keg.

Would the hopped water mix well with the fermented beer?
 
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puney_the_youkel

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Chello said:
So using this technique seems like you could cut your time in half for brewing , say, a pale ale that you wanted to dry hop.

Could you not just dry hop a liter or so of water for the same duration that your beer is in the primary, and then (i keg) poor your dry hopped water in the keg and rack on top of it? Thus you don't waste much beer that would have gotten stuck in your hops, cut down on the time if you only were to secondary purely to dry hop, and there would be little or no hop sediment for those who usually dry hop in the keg.

Would the hopped water mix well with the fermented beer?


I have not soaked hops and added the "tea" to beer. I am impatient and like the immediate nature of using hot water.
To the question of if it will mix with fermented beer. All of my experiments have been with fully fermented beer which has been chilled to drop the yeast.
Additonally, I have used the French Press Hop Tea to add to already carbonated beer. I had a couple of kegs that I felt, were under-hopped. The process was very simple. I just made a tea using one ounce of hops, added the tea after an hour of steeping to the keg with C02 flowing to reduce the chance of oxidation.
I gave it a gentle shake, and let it sit for about a week. I compared it to the un-hopped version and in my opinion, it really perked up the beer.
 

BarleyWater

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ohiobrewtus said:
Is there something wrong with this? :D

Not at all, actually after taking dry hopping into account, I have almost reached the same amount, I just wasn't thinking about dry hops at the time.
 

BarleyWater

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wortmonger said:
I am building a hop inducer out of a canister filter so I can get the "green" right before my glass. I mean you have to run beer through and let it sit before you start using it, but I have heard this gets the freshest flavor and aroma out there.

I believe that this is similar to what Dogfish Head does with Randall the Enamel Animal. Get Randallized :rockin:
 

NorCal

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Just wondering if you've tried steeping the hops for a shorter time period. Was there a noticeable addition to the hop character in the beer? More hoppy less bitter?

I've got a batch of blind pig in primary right now. It calls for dry hopping but I was thinking about employing your method instead. Whatever departs the most hoppyness!
 

Danek

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Man. If ever an idea needed side-by-side experimentation, it's this. Next time I make an APA I'll split the batch in half, and add a French Press of hops to one half, to see what the taste difference is.

Would it make any difference if I added this to the secondary, or to the bottling bucket?
 

EvilTOJ

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I now have a reason to buy a french press. I've been debating whether I drink enough coffee at home for some, but now that's cinched the deal!
 

CBBaron

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homebrewer_99 said:
I must be doing something wrong...I only use 1/2 oz (of 6%AAs) in my Hefe Weizens...;) :rockin:
Yep, Your doing something wrong, brewing Hefe Weizens instead of IIPAs :D

This ideal of the French Press Hops sounds like an easier way to get hops flavor and aroma in a beer. Dry hopping is such a pain because I have to use a secondary and I have to be very careful when transfering to avoid the hops matter. With this method I can add the hops flavor directly to bottling bucket, or to the fermenter shortly before bottling.

Craig
 

Danek

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OK, I've been thinking about this a little more and have been trying to come up with a properly designed experiment to test the effect of the Hot French Randall. First, I thought I'd split a batch of beer and just add a HFR to one half. But then I thought that wouldn't be comparing like with like, as the HFR version would have more hops; regardless of the efficiency of the process, it should taste at least a bit more hoppy than the non-HFR version.

So then I thought a better comparison would be comparing the Hot French Randall with dry-hopping. I thought I'd dry-hop one half of the batch, and add an equal amount of hops via a HFR to the other half. Both halves would therefore receive an equal amount of hops, so any difference between them would be due to the method of adding flavor. That seems like a better plan, though there's still a slight problem in that the HFR half would have extra liquid added via the French Press so the beer would be slightly more dilute; to compensate for this I was thinking of adding a French Press of boiled, cooled water to the dry-hopped batch.

I'm not quite sure whether to dry-hop/add the HFR at the end of primary, or in the secondary. If anyone has any thoughts on this, or any of the above, they'd be greatfully received. :mug:
 
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