biab sparge?

[jjones17]

I brew in a bag a-la-Deathbrewer mainly, except I mash in my oven. I also do 3 gallon batches only.

I mash, then I remove my bag and set my first runnings aside. Then, in the mash tun I replace the grains and add my 'mash out' water for 10 mins at 168F. Then, I remove the grains again. After, I sparge with 168F water in a new pot until I reach my pre boil volume. I get 75% efficiency every time.

I only missed it once because my STone Ruination clone recipe maxed out my mash tun and it was totally full. So, when I tried to mash out I could not add enough hot water to bring my temp up to the right temperature. I got my first 68% efficiency since going AG... oh well, it will still taste great.

 

[johnbrain]

This is essentially what I do. I use the large Austin Homebrew bag and I've done as much as 14 lbs of grain without any problem (in a 10 gallon cooler). I usually end up at 80% efficiency (+/-2%) with a double sparge of the bagged grains. I've spent a few more dollars and have a second cooler that holds the sparge water so I can drain the Mash Tun into the brew kettle and start heating it during the sparging process. This knocks about 30 min off the brew day. Another plus about the bags is that I doubt a stuck sparge is possible.

I'm going to try this for my next brew. I'm doing a mini mash so I won't be able to double sparge until I get a larger BK. Looking forward to mashing more grains though.

 

[johnbrain]

Btw: do you get much splash pouring from the cooler? Would I be better off using a self priming racking cane but otherwise following the same process?

 

[Heflover]

Can someone check through my all-grain BIAB thinking for a 5-gallon brew kettle?

I am thinking of using the BK as a mash tun, and my 6-gallon plastic primary fermenter bucket for sparging.

With a 10 lb grain bill, I'm going to need about 1.25 qt/lb of mash water, bringing my brew kettle up to a little more than 3 gallons of water... But after mashing, it's going to lose about a gallon to absorption by the grain. So now down to 2 gallons

If I sparge with about 2 gallons of 170-degree water into my plastic bucket, then pour that into my brew kettle, I'm boiling with 4 gallons of total wort. I could add back the water after the boil and get to my target 5.5 gallon batch ...

Does this all sound right and doable?

 

[RM-MN]

Can someone check through my all-grain BIAB thinking for a 5-gallon brew kettle?

I am thinking of using the BK as a mash tun, and my 6-gallon plastic primary fermenter bucket for sparging.

With a 10 lb grain bill, I'm going to need about 1.25 qt/lb of mash water, bringing my brew kettle up to a little more than 3 gallons of water... But after mashing, it's going to lose about a gallon to absorption by the grain. So now down to 2 gallons

If I sparge with about 2 gallons of 170-degree water into my plastic bucket, then pour that into my brew kettle, I'm boiling with 4 gallons of total wort. I could add back the water after the boil and get to my target 5.5 gallon batch ...

Does this all sound right and doable?

One of the advantages of BIAB is the low grain absorption. In a traditional mash tun you lose this much because you rely on gravity to extract the wort but when your grain is in a fine mesh bag, you can squeeze the wort out, leaving very little liquid in the grain. Now to increase the sugar extraction you can also sparge the grain in the bag and squeeze it again, leaving the grain almost dry and with little residual sugars.

You are also planning to do what is known as a partial boil where you don't use the full volume of water in the boil kettle and add water afterwards. That should work fine although your efficiency may suffer a bit as you may not extract all the sugar possible from the bag of grains.

 

[Challenger440]

I mash (using about 1.3 qt/lb) in a 7.5 gallon pot then transfer the bag to a bottling bucket and batch sparge. I just lift the bag out then slide the bucket underneath so no wort spills. I usually end up ~80% efficiency doing this.

 

[daksin]

You can definitely get away with your 7.5 gallon. I have a 7.5 gallon pot that I mash in, and then another large pot (8 gallons? too wide for my turkey fryer) that holds hot sparge water. After the mash, I squeeze the first runnings into the mash tun/boil kettle, dunk sparge the bag into the second pot, and then combine the two. It's a standard all-grain setup but instead of a cooler, I use a pot with a bag, and I sparge in a separate vessel. I use the term hybrid BIAB.

I recently did a 5 gallon batch of 1.100 barleywine using this method. It was a very thick mash at 1 qt/lb and I probably wouldn't do it again just for all the hassle, but it definitely worked. 22lbs of grain in total. Awesome.

 

[Heflover]

You can definitely get away with your 7.5 gallon. I have a 7.5 gallon pot that I mash in, and then another large pot (8 gallons? too wide for my turkey fryer) that holds hot sparge water. After the mash, I squeeze the first runnings into the mash tun/boil kettle, dunk sparge the bag into the second pot, and then combine the two. It's a standard all-grain setup but instead of a cooler, I use a pot with a bag, and I sparge in a separate vessel. I use the term hybrid BIAB.

I recently did a 5 gallon batch of 1.100 barleywine using this method. It was a very thick mash at 1 qt/lb and I probably wouldn't do it again just for all the hassle, but it definitely worked. 22lbs of grain in total. Awesome.

Sweet! Thanks for the advice. My grain bill would never get that high so I'm definitely going AG to try this, even with my 5 gallon pot. I plan to mash in the brew kettle, sparge in the secondary fermenter/plastic bucket and mix the two.

I was also reading some posts about decoction mashing, and this isn't too far off what I did on my second go-around with partial mashing. When I tasted some of the grain after my mash, they still tasted sweet so I sparged in a turkey pan, filtered with a normal strainer into a smaller pot. And because I didn't have all that much room left in the kettle, I boiled the liquid down in the pot, completely separate from the original mash, and then even cooled it separately.

I even boiled my hops separate from this second container holding sparge water. I only mixed the two things finally in the primary fermenter before pitching the yeast.

I sense that this is not a good idea, because perhaps I'm missing out on some of the enzymes released into the mash ... I have yet to taste this, so I'll give an update if it tastes terrible.

 

[beauvafr]

I do a hybrid BIAB / sparge. I use a 5 gal cooler thats unmodified (no braid or spigot etc) and a 5 gal paint strainer bag from Lowes ($2). Bag goes in cooler, grain goes in bag, strike water goes over grain, then a mash. To sparge, I just lift the grain bag out, dump my "first runnings" from the cooler, put the grain bag (with grains still in it) back in the bag and add my sparge water over the grain again. Wait 10 min then pull out the bag and dump out the sparged wort from the cooler.

Works like a charm and means that I moved from extract to all grain for $22 TOTAL ($20 for cooler, $2 for bag). No recirculation needed, and the wort comes out without any husk material at all, just as if you had vourlaufed.

I like my technique and recommend it to anyone who's lazy and cheap like me.

Interesting!

But do you mean you use the first running as sparge water ? Sorry to resuscitate this old thread. But can someone confirm if I understand it the right way?

 

[PRE66_6TART]

Nope, that would accomplish nothing. He dumps the sparge water (presumably into his boil kettle) then puts new water in the cooler with the grain.

While we are at it though, I have been wondering something. If you were to squeeze the bag, then dunk sparge for 10 minutes as has been suggested, would you need to worry about the ph in the sparge being too high? I've heard this can happen from over-sparging. Could it be possible to over-sparge when BIABing? Or is 10 minutes not long enough to worry about it?

 

[RM-MN]

I think over-sparging occurs when you sparge once, take the runnings, sparge again, take the runnings, and sparge again trying to get the last of the sugars out. Each time you drain the mash tun you raise the pH. I don't believe that the time has much to do with it. I also don't believe you accomplish very much with a 10 minute dunk sparge. It doesn't take sugar very long to dissolve into hot water. Agitation would be more beneficial. Try it with a cup of tea. Pour your sugar into your tea and let it sit for ten minutes. Try another cup where you pour the sugar in and stir for 30 seconds.

 

[beauvafr]

Nope, that would accomplish nothing. He dumps the sparge water (presumably into his boil kettle) then puts new water in the cooler with the grain.

Why dumping first in the boil kettle? Why dont just put the bag in a colander over the mashtun (or kettle) and add new water on the grain and then have to transfer only one time in the boil kettle?

 

[unionrdr]

That's basically what I do. Put a collander on top of the BK/MT with the bag of grains in it. My collander is a polished SS one from bed,bath,& way beyond for some nine bucks. Get the handles of the collander lined up with the handles of the BK/MT. Then take two 4-6" pieces of 2X4 to place between the handles to jack up the collander enough to sparge up to 3.5 Gallons in a 5 gallon kettle.
This is helpfull when yo mash some 4-6 pounds of grains in 2 gallons of water & then sparge with 1.5-1.75 gallons,giving 3.5-3.75 gallons of fresh wort that comes up into the bottom of the collander otherwise. So those two pieces of scrap lumber will save draining time later. After sparge/drain,I place the full collander over a smaller kettle to drain some more. I'll add that to the kettle as I go. When they're well drained,heat oven to 200F & spread grains on sheet pans no more than 1/2" thick to slowly dry over a couple hours. When light & obviously dried,cool them off & place in 1 gallon size sip lock freezer bags (tougher plastic),& toss in the pantry. I then use a Mr Coffee burr grinder on the espresaso setting to make a medium flour out of some of them. Mix this with regular flour for baking with a lil extra liquid. And more baking powder if used. Here's a link to the spent grain chef page of Brooklyn brewery; http://brooklynbrewshop.com/themash/category/spentgrainchef/

 

[PRE66_6TART]

Why dumping first in the boil kettle? Why dont just put the bag in a colander over the mashtun (or kettle) and add new water on the grain and then have to transfer only one time in the boil kettle?

That's just how I interpreted his four year old post. I'm not saying I would do it the same way. I actually haven't started BIABing yet. Just bought my voile curtain yesterday, so I can't say for sure yet what my method will be. I agree though that it seems like an extra unnecessary step.

 

[dude1]

Just my humble contribution to this discussion.
I lay the bag over the kettle and rinse it with some of my sparge water using a glass measuring cup.
Of all the brewing techniques I tried, this gives the best beers, so go for it.