BIAB high efficiency and recipe troubles

[haeffnkr]

Hello,
I know this might sound silly to some but I am having issues with to high of efficiency.

I just brewed my third batch today, all grain, biab.
I have a barley crusher and I triple crush the grain, to get good efficiency from what I read about about BIAB, this a common practice.
I guess 3x might be too much.

When I brewed Cream of 3 crops today I was expecting to hit 1.045, I got 1.047 and the recipe called for 1.040.

I mashed for 90 minutes, at 152 +/_ a couple degrees, then brought it up to 170 and pulled the bag out, let it drip and barely squeezed the bag.
I had a 6 gallons in the boil keg after it was cooled, I started with 8.75 gallons of water... had a hard rolling boil for 95 minutes.
This is what I have done for all 3 batches.

So my issue is or my perceived issue is that the 3 different light hybrid beers I have brewed all seem to be based on using around 70% efficiency to get the OG numbers they state.
From what I guessing and believe I am experiencing in my second batch, as the OG goes up, it changes the IBU numbers.

I boiled the hops for 70 minutes today to try and compensate for the high efficiency I expected, based on the tastybrew bittering calculator.
I ended up close to MY target of 1.045 but not close to the recipe OG.

So -
Am I correct in my theory - OG and IBU must match at the original efficiency to get the recipe results?
If so -
Do I crush the grains once or 2x to try and get my efficiency lower?
Do I use a different calculators/software to get my numbers to line up, if so which ones?

Sorry for all the questions, just a bit confused.
thanks Kevin

 

[chickypad]

If you use the complete recipe calculator on Tasty brew you can change the efficiency to what you are getting with your system. Then you can dial down the grain bill a bit if you want to hit the recipe more exactly. Or you can just be happy with getting a little more efficiency. A few gravity points isn't going to be that big of a perceivable difference in IBU's. For example, in a recipe I already had in Beersmith I changed efficiency from 80% to 75%. It went from OG 1.065 and IBU of 62 to OG 1.061 and IBU 64.

 

[djfriesen]

Like chicky says, use a recipe creator and play with the efficiency numbers. The first 2-3 brews with a new process (or a first process) will be spent dialing in your numbers. If you are tracking efficiency and have a pretty consistent number, you can input that in most recipe software and account for it. Bonus: you'll get more sugar out of less grain, so your grainbills will be cheaper.

You mention using a different software as a solution. Do you use a program now? If so, which one? Many people use BeerSmith, and it seems to be the gold standard. That said, I downloaded BrewTarget for free, and have been fairly happy with it. Unfortunately, I haven't used BeerSmith, so I can't really compare the two. I have read that they are fairly similar in many ways, but that might just be the bias of people that want to think that what they use is "correct."

And yes, gravity will affect hops utilization, and thereby, perceived bitterness. But chicky is also right in that a fairly small change in gravity will be really hard to pick up on in the bitterness. And once your efficiency is dialed in an accounted for, this issue goes away, because you'll be consistently hitting your gravity numbers.

 

[Ambrose_Balin]

Additionally you shouldn't consider your process to be static and regimented. Rather, realize that there are a certain number of variables that you control, and a few others that you don't.

Take preboil gravity readings!!! You can easily hit any gravity if you know your preboil gravity and volume. (preboil gravity) X (preboil volume) = (postboil gravity) X (postboil volume).

Using second runnings/ extra squeezing and adjusting your boil times will allow you to compensate for your mash efficiency.

 

[haeffnkr]

Like chicky says, use a recipe creator and play with the efficiency numbers.

You mention using a different software as a solution. Do you use a program now? If so, which one? Many people use BeerSmith, and it seems to be the gold standard. That said, I downloaded BrewTarget for free, and have been fairly happy with it. Unfortunately, I haven't used BeerSmith, so I can't really compare the two. I have read that they are fairly similar in many ways, but that might just be the bias of people that want to think that what they use is "correct."

And yes, gravity will affect hops utilization, and thereby, perceived bitterness. But chicky is also right in that a fairly small change in gravity will be really hard to pick up on in the bitterness. And once your efficiency is dialed in an accounted for, this issue goes away, because you'll be consistently hitting your gravity numbers.

I have played with brewtarget, beer smith, hopville and tastybrew.
They all are a little different and I like the tastybrew one best, but it appears that you have to use their recipe calculator first to attempt to get the OG numbers then go to their bitterness calculator to find the "real" ibu numbers.

Beersmith - I could not find where to put in my pre/post volumes of water.
Very complex, and I play with computers for a living.

Take preboil gravity readings!!! You can easily hit any gravity if you know your preboil gravity and volume. (preboil gravity) X (preboil volume) = (postboil gravity) X (postboil volume).

Using second runnings/ extra squeezing and adjusting your boil times will allow you to compensate for your mash efficiency.

You can do with with a hydrometer and adjust readings based on temp of mash?

Can you give me a simple example of this please?
I seemed for some reason to over shoot my water yesterday so I made sure I had a hard boil.. I am trying to hit my recipe volumes exactly to keep my OG numbers where I want them.

thanks Kevin

 

[tennesseean_87]

Brewtarget is easy--put in the recipe you find on here along with the efficiency used in that recipe and get the numbers the recipes says you should. Then do something like: tools-->scale recipe and scale efficiency in the dialogue that comes up. It may not be as precise, but I just use ideal equipment and then scale to my batch size and efficiency (you do have to scale two different times).