BIAB Brewing (with pics)

[eulipion2]

doublebogey10,
Let's walk through this step by step.

1. So you get your grains online, crushed by the retailer? It might be a good idea to get a mill. Some shops have wider gaps than others and (especially online shops) aren't willing to adjust or double mill. I have a Barley Crusher and use the default mill gap.
2. When you mash, do you stir and check temps frequently?
3. Do you mash-out around 168-170 for 15 minutes?
4. Do you squeeze or sparge?
5. Is your boil-off percentage correctly factored?

My process involves raising the water to about mash temperature (not "strike" temp), add the grains, the temp drops, so I turn on the heat to raise the temp to 2-5 degrees UNDER mash temp. Temps will typically increase a few degrees (carryover heat).

After 10 minutes I stir thoroughly and check temp (usually have to turn on the heat for a few minutes), then I stir and check every 10-15 min. After my 60-90 min mash I raise temps to 170 for 15 minutes. Then I squeeze the bejeezus out of the grains.

I like to use THIS CALCULATOR to figure out my water needs. Absorption set to .08, equipment and trub loss to .25 each (for MY system). If you do full volume boils you only need to worry about Total Water Needed, not mash or sparge water. It took some work, but I figured out my boil-off is 13%.

I usually end up with 6 gallons in the kettle, 5.5 gal in fermenter, 72% efficiency, or 85% for session ales. I may try a finer crush to bump that up a little, but I'm more concerned with consistency than anything, which I'm definitely getting.

So, do I have a hydrometer problem?

Doubt it.

Is there something about that free Brewtoad software that might be off?

Do you have the appropriate batch size and efficiency set?

 

[MMJfan]

If your mash temp is low they will finish lower because you are producing more fermentable sugars. Mash higher and it will finish higher. When I mashed my brews with the low efficiency, they both finished low, around 1.011-1.014. The mash temp was 148 -150. They turned out great, I just wanted a higher efficiency because I felt like 14 lbs of grain should get more yield than 1.062. My last was 11.5 lbs of grain and I had OG of 1.068 go into the fermentor. :rockin:

I love my ugly corona. It is set up in a Menard bucket. I throw a plastic bag over the top to keep the dust down. It works very well for me. It can take out all my grain in about 15 minutes. Its ugly though.

Just to be clear, if I mash at a higher temp, my OG will be higher and thus my FG will also be higher?

I too have an ugly corona mill that works great for me, although I'm wondering if my crush could be even finer. I'm going to try cranking it down even more for my next brew to see how that works out...

 

[TCGoose]

Just to be clear, if I mash at a higher temp, my OG will be higher and thus my FG will also be higher?

I too have an ugly corona mill that works great for me, although I'm wondering if my crush could be even finer. I'm going to try cranking it down even more for my next brew to see how that works out...

Mash temp primarily affects FG.
Higher mash temp = less fermentable sugars = higher FG

Lower mash temp = more fermentable sugars = lower FG

I don't think OG is affected by mash temp

 

[TangoHotel]

Just to be clear, if I mash at a higher temp, my OG will be higher and thus my FG will also be higher?

I too have an ugly corona mill that works great for me, although I'm wondering if my crush could be even finer. I'm going to try cranking it down even more for my next brew to see how that works out...

FG is affected by the mash temps. SG and OG are affected by your sugar conversion and efficency. You could get 80% efficiency but mashed at a high temp, and have your FG end way higher than the target because there wasn't enough fermentable sugars to hit your target. Likewise you could get 60% efficiency and because you mashed lower, end with a much lower FG because there was more fermentable sugars.

A second crush may give you more fermentable sugars based on the temp you mash at because there is more surface area for sugar conversion on the kernels. The second crush will definitely help with efficiency. I went from low 60s to high 80s. Good luck!

 

[Heflover]

Could it be the temperature in the room is higher than for the person who wrote the recipe?

A higher temperature will increase your hydrometer readings on both the OG and FG I think, right?

 

[doublebogey10]

doublebogey10,
Let's walk through this step by step.

1. So you get your grains online, crushed by the retailer? It might be a good idea to get a mill. Some shops have wider gaps than others and (especially online shops) aren't willing to adjust or double mill. I have a Barley Crusher and use the default mill gap.
   
   Crushed by retailer.
   
2. When you mash, do you stir and check temps frequently?
   
   I check temps and stir about every 20 minutes during a 60-minute mash
   
3. Do you mash-out around 168-170 for 15 minutes?
   
   After 60 minute mash, I add flame and stir around until 170 (stirring mostly to keep bottom of the bag off the bottom).
   
4. Do you squeeze or sparge?
   
   No sparge. I squeeze but not excessively.
   
5. Is your boil-off percentage correctly factored?
   
   I start with ~5.5 gallons. After absorption and burnoff, I am putting between 3 and 3.5 into 5-gallon carboy. When I rack to secondary (usually for dry-hopping, I am putting right at 3 gallons after leaving trub in primary.
   

I referenced my Double IPA. Some notes on that when I brewed it:
Mashed in at 158. After stirring and settling, I put the lid on at 153 degrees. Checked at 20 minutes and was at 152.1, stirred and recovered. Checked 20 minutes later and was at 149. Stirred, applied flame back up to 153. Killed flame. Covered. 20 minutes later, applied flame and stirred until 168 when I pulled the grains. Squeezed and let drip while bringing to a boil. Put grain bag in bucket and later squeezed again and added those runnings to the boil.

Thanks for the thoughts on all of this. I don't know that I fully understood higher mash temp=higher finish/lower mash temp=lower finish.
Looks like I'm back to the obvious culprit: crush.

So, if I invest in a mill, can I get by with something as simple as this?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000U5NZ4I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

FInally, a note on that recipe. It's a great beer. If you brew it, Use a cleaner yeast like WLP001 or something like that. I tried the London ESB because I'd heard that's what Lagunitas uses and wanted to see how it would come out. It was fine. But I think this beer will be better with A) better efficiency and B) a cleaner yeast.

Thanks again and Cheers!

 

[eulipion2]

Mashed in at 158.

I definitely recommend adding grains near your mash temp (153) then reheating back up to just under mash temp. Trust me, it'll get there. I'd check temps every 15 min or so.

So, if I invest in a mill, can I get by with something as simple as this?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000U5NZ4I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that Charlie Papazian still uses a Corona mill, so why not? The default gap on a Barley crusher is .039", and I've seen a lot of people say they adjust it to .035". Not sure what the equivalent on a Corona mill is or how to measure, but give it a go. You'll still make beer

 

[eulipion2]

Oh, and are you boiling off to get a certain volume (say, with a sight glass)? I think if that's how you're measuring, you might want to squeeze the grain more. That way you have more sugar in a given volume, thus better efficiency.

 

[mtnagel]

So I've done 5 AG BIAB batches and am loving it. I'm brewing smaller batches, but more often because I love the entire process more than extract brewing. So thanks for this incredible resource.

Anyway, all five batches have been between 1.067-1.075 starting gravity and I've gotten around 75% efficiency for the last few (around 70% for the first one when I was still learning). Now I want to brew a 1.100 beer, but I've heard there may be a drop in efficiency. Is there any rule of thumb of what drop in efficiency I can expect so I can plan the recipe around that? Or should I just plan for 75% and see what I get and then use that in the future?

 

[eulipion2]

... Now I want to brew a 1.100 beer, but I've heard there may be a drop in efficiency. Is there any rule of thumb of what drop in efficiency I can expect so I can plan the recipe around that? Or should I just plan for 75% and see what I get and then use that in the future?

I think one of the biggest problems with a big grain bill is actually lifting the bag! Will you be doing all-malt, or adding extract, sugar, or syrup? If all-malt, yeah, you'll probably have a bit lower efficiency. I shot for 1.100 with my standard efficiency on a recent brew and hit 1.095 or so. Not a terrible loss of efficiency.

 

[mtnagel]

I think one of the biggest problems with a big grain bill is actually lifting the bag! Will you be doing all-malt, or adding extract, sugar, or syrup? If all-malt, yeah, you'll probably have a bit lower efficiency. I shot for 1.100 with my standard efficiency on a recent brew and hit 1.095 or so. Not a terrible loss of efficiency.

Thanks, that's good to know.

It's all malt, but right now, I'm only planning to do 3 gallons, so I can't remember what the grain bill came out to, but I've done a 17 lb grain bill (my first BIAB) and it was fine. I've improved my process from that, I think it should be okay.

 

[doublebogey10]

Oh, and are you boiling off to get a certain volume (say, with a sight glass)? I think if that's how you're measuring, you might want to squeeze the grain more. That way you have more sugar in a given volume, thus better efficiency.

I don't have a sight glass.
Going to get that Corona mill and see where I'm at after a couple batches with that.
Thanks

 

[user 78027]

I made a BIAB batch today and made a potentially significant mistake. I wanted to mash at 158 so I used a strike temperature of 163. When I mash at 154 I use a strike temperature of 160 so 5 or 6 degrees loss due to the grain is expected. When I was finished adding the grain the temperature was at 162, probably measured the 163 wrong. So, I stirred and waited and stirred and waited till the temperature got to 157 and started the mash. I mashed for an additional 60 minutes and my brewhouse efficiency was at 99%.

After the boil my og was right on but I'm not sure how much of the sugar will be fermentable.

Does anyone have any experience with this to give me an idea how it is going to turn out.

 

[ChrisL_]

I made a BIAB batch today and made a potentially significant mistake. I wanted to mash at 158 so I used a strike temperature of 163. When I mash at 154 I use a strike temperature of 160 so 5 or 6 degrees loss due to the grain is expected. When I was finished adding the grain the temperature was at 162, probably measured the 163 wrong. So, I stirred and waited and stirred and waited till the temperature got to 157 and started the mash. I mashed for an additional 60 minutes and my brewhouse efficiency was at 99%.

After the boil my og was right on but I'm not sure how much of the sugar will be fermentable.

Does anyone have any experience with this to give me an idea how it is going to turn out.

Been there, done that.
That is a pretty high mash temp. It is likely that many of the of the sugars will be long branch and will not ferment out. At this stage all you can do it let it ferment and see where it goes.
I did this on my very first ever batch and my beer went from 1.067 and stuck at 1.040. If it gets to that stage you may be able to fix it with Alpha Amylase Enzyme. It worked well for me. If you beer gets stuck and is too sweet to be drinkable it will be worth a try. Feel free to post or PM if you have questions about it.

 

[mtnagel]

Next time, a few ice cubes will quickly cool it down a few degrees.

 

[badlee]

or you could just add some brett and forget it for a while

 

[bigskygreg]

I am all over then place. I have read this fengjdw thread to knbowfvafjf c e s but of miss

 

[mtnagel]

Maybe you shouldn't drink and post bigskygreg

 

[MMJfan]

I am all over then place. I have read this fengjdw thread to knbowfvafjf c e s but of miss

Could we have that in English please?

 

[user 78027]

I made a BIAB batch today and made a potentially significant mistake. I wanted to mash at 158 so I used a strike temperature of 163. When I mash at 154 I use a strike temperature of 160 so 5 or 6 degrees loss due to the grain is expected. When I was finished adding the grain the temperature was at 162, probably measured the 163 wrong. So, I stirred and waited and stirred and waited till the temperature got to 157 and started the mash. I mashed for an additional 60 minutes and my brewhouse efficiency was at 99%.

After the boil my og was right on but I'm not sure how much of the sugar will be fermentable.

Does anyone have any experience with this to give me an idea how it is going to turn out.

After 2 days, not even a hint of a bubble. I think I'll just consider this new knowledge and move on. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[FlyDoctor]

After 2 days, not even a hint of a bubble. I think I'll just consider this new knowledge and move on. Thanks for your suggestions.

I would be shocked if this temp issue made the wort totally unfermentable - there's no way. You know the enzymes were active since you extracted sugar, and you know bubbles are not a reliable sign of fermentation. Are you sure your year are ok? More likely an issue there if its really not fermenting

 

[user 78027]

I would be shocked if this temp issue made the wort totally unfermentable - there's no way. You know the enzymes were active since you extracted sugar, and you know bubbles are not a reliable sign of fermentation. Are you sure your year are ok? More likely an issue there if its really not fermenting

There are no bubbles in the airlock and the surface of the wort is like glass. I will measure the gravity of it again, I might pitch a dry yeast this afternoon. The yeast gas was expanded in the slap bag.

I just don't want to spend too much energy on this to have a less then mediocre beer.

I'm just trying to sort out what to do with this.

I have a firm deadline, I have 10 days until this has to go in a secondary and sit for 2.5 to 3 months. I'm not sure why it isn't fermenting. But if I need to do this again to have something I'm going to want to drink, I have a day to start over,.

 

[Yambor44]

Why the firm deadline? With your time line of up to almost 3.5 months, I don't think you should rush it. Pitch a dry yeast.

 

[user 78027]

I'm having left hip surgery and left hand surgery at the same time so I will not be able to lift and carry anything.

 

[user 78027]

Why the firm deadline? With your time line of up to almost 3.5 months, I don't think you should rush it. Pitch a dry yeast.

and voila it is gassing at least. No krausen just a air lock bubble every second. I guess I just wait and see now. I appreciate all the help on this issue.

Thank You

 

[bigskygreg]

Could we have that in English please?

I would love



to provide a translation, but can't remember the thought. I guess you could say I had a successful wee heavy.

Still experimenting with biab, trying to find my best system, but enjoying the process.

Cheers!

 

[user 78027]

and voila it is gassing at least. No krausen just a air lock bubble every second. I guess I just wait and see now. I appreciate all the help on this issue.

I just checked this beer and it fermented to 1.024. It tastes aweful, so sweet and nothing like I would drink. Chalk this up to one for the learning curve.

Thanks again for all of your help on this brew.

 

[Grimster]

I just checked this beer and it fermented to 1.024. It tastes aweful, so sweet and nothing like I would drink. Chalk this up to one for the learning curve.

Thanks again for all of your help on this brew.

Bottle it up, sit it in a closet and forget about it for a while, who knows how it'll be in 4 or 5 months. Or find someone who likes their beer a little sweet and make a gift out of it.

Or cook with it, an overly sweet brew would probably make some killer pulled pork or bbq ribs.

 

[user 78027]

Bottle it up, sit it in a closet and forget about it for a while, who knows how it'll be in 4 or 5 months. Or cook with it, an overly sweet brew would probably make some killer pulled pork or bbq ribs.

My only choice it to store it as it is in the primary for the duration and deal with it when I'm able. It doesn't taste good enough to drink, maybe I could cook with it. Maybe I can make a reduction with it and sell it I have 2.5 gallons of the stuff.

 

[Yambor44]

I'd leave it be for another week or two.