BIAB Brewing (with pics)

[Foosier]

I don't worry about the trub. It all settles out in primary. Cold crashing before packaging eliminates any other issues. My beers come out nice and clear from the keg.

 

[jb1677]

I don't worry about the trub. It all settles out in primary. Cold crashing before packaging eliminates any other issues. My beers come out nice and clear from the keg.

Given that should I just transfer the entire boil kettle contents to the fermenter and just let it settle out there?

 

[PackerfaninSanDiego]

I don't get it. using something on the bottom to prevent the bag from burning? You can burn a bag in 170f water?

 

[suprat78]

Given that should I just transfer the entire boil kettle contents to the fermenter and just let it settle out there?

That's what I do and cold crash prior to kegging. The beers turn out crystal clear!

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

BIAB wort always comes out cloudier. Doesn't hurt a thing in the end though. I've started using Whirlfloc to help crash it out in the kettle more but not sure if even that is necessary.

 

[mtnagel]

Given that should I just transfer the entire boil kettle contents to the fermenter and just let it settle out there?

I'm not expert but that's what I do. Clarity looks good after its been in the fridge awhile but clarity isn't really a huge concern of mine.

I don't get it. using something on the bottom to prevent the bag from burning? You can burn a bag in 170f water?

The concern is if you have to start the burner again and you have the bag directly touching the bottom of the pot.

 

[doublebogey10]

So, I've read all 103 pages of this thread via the HBT app on my ipad over the last week. To everyone who has contributed to this, thank you. And a big thanks to Seven for the awesome original post and pictures - I'm a visual learner so I probably learned more from those first page than I could've imagined!

I'm an extract brewer with ~20 batches under my belt. In February, I brewed NB's de Belge IPA, a three-gallon kit as my first BIAB batch. If it's not the best beer I've made, it's definitely top three. And that was despite issues I had with temperature control and reading during the mash. And that's led me to moving full-time on BIAB. I've been hesitant (and maybe a bit intimidated) on moving to all-grain because of the extra equipment and space and variables involved. But after reading this thread, I think BIAB is the right fit for me.

Naturally, I realized about page 20 or so of this thread that I probably should have been writing these down as I went along so my apologies if I've just missed something or forgotten it from earlier.

I have a 10-gallon brew kettle and use an old propane burner so unless I do a really big beer, I think I should be able to do full-volume, no-sparge. I have NB’s Brewmaster Filter Bag, which barely fits around the opening of my kettle. NB told me that the bag will hold 16 pounds of grain and I assume that at some point, I’ll probably test that limit. And I’ll probably get a custom-made bag at some point from one of the places mentioned previously as the NB bag doesn’t have handles or a drawstring.

Here’s my rough plan for a fairly simple wheat beer:

Collect and heat 8 gallons of water to ~130
Dough in and stir well; raise temperature to 156
Cover and insulate with blankets.
Check temperature at 30-minute intervals, stirring well each time.
Total mash of 90 minutes
Raise to 170 to mash out and then lift the grain bag.
Let grain bag sit on an oven rack above the kettle to drip and squeeze the bag
Pull sample to test for efficiency
Begin 60-minute boil and continue on from there.

I don’t have a basket that fits well with my kettle so I’ll just use a bag.

I have ~2-inch tall SS pasta bucket/colander that I may put on the bottom of the kettle. It seems that the generally accepted thought is that your bag probably won’t burn during the mash but this step probably won’t hurt, right?

I need a quality thermometer I can use to monitor temperature as my kettle is just a kettle and doesn’t have anything built in. I know there was one referenced before but then there was talk that you had to waterproof that one or something like that. Is there a thermometer out there that someone would recommend that I can leave the probe in the mash to monitor?

What’s the best way to calculate efficiency? I know this was talked about previously but I’m not sure which is the generally accepted method/calculator. I based my recipe off 70 percent so we’ll see.

Is there a formula for how much water I should start with (I’m kidding on this one – I think MysticMead posted it about 100 times over the course of this thread!)

Again, thank you for this thread. It’s helped me tremendously in moving forward.

 

[Mysticmead]

My only issue with the process I have so far is the crazy amount of trub and cloudy wort - does anyone have tips for this? Today for example after cooling I had 5.5 gallons in the kettle, I whirlpooled, let it sit and started to transfer with an autosiphon. The first 2.5 gallons wer nice and clear, from the next 2 were pretty cloude and the last one was thick. I left behind a half gallon of sluge.

Any tips, I know the last 1/2 gallon of pure trub is to be expected but the 2.5 gallons of really cloudy wort bothers me.

best tip for cloudy wort... ignore it. the beer will still turn out crystal clear and it doesn't hurt the flavor at all

 

[Yambor44]

Very nice system you got there! My only comment would be the large amount of dead space under your beautiful false bottom...this volume of liquid is perhaps not really "participating in the mash".

Again, great looking system! Crush is nice and fine as well, right?

Honored to see my product being put to use in your awesome rig! Enjoyed the vids as well!

Very good point! I will recirculate at least two gallons via pitcher from the valve and pour back onto the top during lets say the first 15 minutes.

My crush is very good. I almost think too fine although I rarely get a stuck sparge in the MT. I will however double crush it as someone recommended.

Thanks for your advice and thanks for the great quality bag!

Edit: I've read mixed reviews about not needing a false bottom (let the bag sit on/around the element). What is your take on this?

 

[mtnagel]

So, I've read all 103 pages of this thread...

Wow, this almost could have been written by me. ~20 extract batches before trying BIAB for the first time a few weeks ago. I had mash temp issues (well I thought I did; maybe not based on my final gravity). Was intimidated to go all grain. Except instead of 3 gallon Belgian, I did a 5 gallon FBS clone with 17 lbs of grain

Anyway, not sure of the quality of your bag, but I purchased some voile on Amazon and had a co-worker sew it. It worked okay, but it got small tears in it, so there's $12 down the drain (well, I'm using pieces for filtering and hop bags now). Anyway, I just got wilserbrewer's bag in the mail today (thanks for the super speedy delivery) and let me tell you, this bag is high quality. I can tell the fabric is thicker, the stitching is better than my friend did and it has a drawstring. I can't wait to use it on National Homebrew day. Anyway, I think I got lucky that I only had a few tears in my homemade bag and didn't lose all 17 lbs of grain. So if you need a bag, so far, I can recommend wilserbrewer's bags.

You're "false bottom" seems good. Can you paste a link? I'm still in the market for a good one. My metal colander was a bit tall so I'm thinking of getting a round cooling rack for mine, but your's seems good.

I'm in the market for a good thermometer also. I just use a stick one, but that means I have to lift the lid so I'd like to avoid that.

As for efficiency, I let BeerSmith calculate it for me Hope that helps.

 

[mtnagel]

Very good point! I will recirculate at least two gallons via pitcher from the valve and pour back onto the top during lets say the first 15 minutes.

Would stirring the grain in the bag help? Seems like it would get some good flow in the pot.

 

[PackerfaninSanDiego]

Wow, this almost could have been written by me. ~20 extract batches before trying BIAB for the first time a few weeks ago. I had mash temp issues (well I thought I did; maybe not based on my final gravity). Was intimidated to go all grain. Except instead of 3 gallon Belgian, I did a 5 gallon FBS clone with 17 lbs of grain

Anyway, not sure of the quality of your bag, but I purchased some voile on Amazon and had a co-worker sew it. It worked okay, but it got small tears in it, so there's $12 down the drain (well, I'm using pieces for filtering and hop bags now). Anyway, I just got wilserbrewer's bag in the mail today (thanks for the super speedy delivery) and let me tell you, this bag is high quality. I can tell the fabric is thicker, the stitching is better than my friend did and it has a drawstring. I can't wait to use it on National Homebrew day. Anyway, I think I got lucky that I only had a few tears in my homemade bag and didn't lose all 17 lbs of grain. So if you need a bag, so far, I can recommend wilserbrewer's bags.

You're "false bottom" seems good. Can you paste a link? I'm still in the market for a good one. My metal colander was a bit tall so I'm thinking of getting a round cooling rack for mine, but your's seems good.

I'm in the market for a good thermometer also. I just use a stick one, but that means I have to lift the lid so I'd like to avoid that.

As for efficiency, I let BeerSmith calculate it for me Hope that helps.

drill a hole in your lid for the thermometer

 

[mtnagel]

Duh, why didn't I think of that.

 

[doublebogey10]

Duh, why didn't I think of that.

Co-sign.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Very good point! I will recirculate at least two gallons via pitcher from the valve and pour back onto the top during lets say the first 15 minutes.

My crush is very good. I almost think too fine although I rarely get a stuck sparge in the MT. I will however double crush it as someone recommended.

Thanks for your advice and thanks for the great quality bag!

Edit: I've read mixed reviews about not needing a false bottom (let the bag sit on/around the element). What is your take on this?

What is the total volume below the false bottom? I have a hunch that this volume is not being adequately mixed and therefore you are not sparging or rinsing efficiently. You could pull gravity samples at the end of the mash, one form the bottom, and one form the top, they should be the same?

I am not a fan of false bottoms for BIAB unless you are constantly recirculating.

I would pull several gallons out the bottom and pour back in the top after the mash is complete...also stirring well might help as you do this. I have a fear that you are mashing above weak wort, and the kettle is not mixed well above and below the FB.

You could also try a batch without the false bottom, and either not power the element during the mash, lift the bag off the element if adding power, or just stirring if you are heating. Good luck!..and again, awesome system!

wilserbrewer

 

[mtnagel]

So wilserbrewer, are saying we don't need any protection from burning the bag during BIAB even when using a propane burner?

My first BIAB I used a metal colander but I was planning on buying a circular metal cooling rack for my next one to keep the bag off the bottom.

 

[Mysticmead]

So wilserbrewer, are saying we don't need any protection from burning the bag during BIAB even when using a propane burner?

My first BIAB I used a metal colander but I was planning on buying a circular metal cooling rack for my next one to keep the bag off the bottom.

there have been some that tested voile with an electric element by wrapping the voile around the element and heating the water. it didn't melt.

I have never used anything under my bag with my propane burner and have never had issues. I do stir non-stop if heating and only heat when doing a mashout (dropping 1-3 degrees in 90 mins is not worth wasting propane over). If you're concerned then by all means add a cake rack or what ever else gives you peace of mind.

remember, just because I never had issues heating with nothing under the bag and someone was able to heat with an electric setup and nothing protecting the bag from the element with no problems doesn't meant you won't have anything go wrong. test it for yourself and then use what works for you and your setup

 

[mtnagel]

Thanks for the info mystic.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Or just dont bother adding heat / conducting a mashout...some smaht people here think that a mashout for BIAB is baloney.... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/biab-why-mashout-309533/
... Your opinions and mileage may vary of course. There are too many variables to say, "do it this way"

I prefer simple, equals no mashout, no FB or cake rack needed. Another option is to simply lift the bag off the bottom of the pot while heating.

 

[Ramarok]

I just lift the bag some while I fire my burner during mash out. I use a bungie strap to hold the bag in place so it doesnt sink back down. Works great for me.

 

[doublebogey10]

So, here's my fit with the bag and second pic is the little pasta basket (which obviously would go under the bag). It doesn't cover the bottom but if the intent is to keep the bag off the direct heat, I think does that.
The bag is actually a nice fit with the kettle. It's not tight inside the kettle but it's not really loose either. Just wish it had a drawstring or handles.

 

[Yambor44]

Or just dont bother adding heat / conducting a mashout...some smaht people here think that a mashout for BIAB is baloney.... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/biab-why-mashout-309533/
... Your opinions and mileage may vary of course. There are too many variables to say, "do it this way"

I prefer simple, equals no mashout, no FB or cake rack needed. Another option is to simply lift the bag off the bottom of the pot while heating.

I'm going to follow your lead on the next one regarding getting the mash water incorporated via draining and pouring back on top.

Lifting the bag while heating isn't an option to me as I want to set it and forget it with the PID controlled element.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ok. I'm thinking critical to use during the sparge, or at the end of the mash for rinsing FWIW...rinsing affects efficiency, and stirring helps rinsing. I like to think of sparging as "washing" the grain through mixing well with ALL the water after conversion and before draining.

 

[atakanokan]

Just a quick question: Is the grain put into the bag malted grain or regular grain without the husk?

 

[mathin]

The grain is the same as you would use for a more traditional AG setup. Some like to crush finer, but it's still husks and all.

 

[weeple2000]

I have been doing biab with the 11 gallon bayou classic pot and basket, but getting lower efficiencies. They're around 60%. Has anyone found that using the basket lowers efficiency? This would make sense as there is water below the bottom of the basket which is not in contact with the grain..

 

[eulipion2]

I have been doing biab with the 11 gallon bayou classic pot and basket, but getting lower efficiencies. They're around 60%. Has anyone found that using the basket lowers efficiency? This would make sense as there is water below the bottom of the basket which is not in contact with the grain..

I have a 72 qt pot with steamer basket. With sub-1.070 beers I generally get 75% efficiency. Did a 1.095 beer and got 71%. Session beers give me over ~85%.

There are a couple things I find affect my efficiency:
1.) too course of crush
2.) too short of mash
3.) no mash-out
4.) not squeezing the bag

Efficiency suffers for me if I don't mash out, just 15 min at 170.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Efficiency suffers for me if I don't mash out, just 15 min at 170.

Interesting.....I wonder if the mash out is actually simply moving the heated water under the basket up through the grain bed as the hot water will want to rise...interesting as I generally feel a mashout does not increase efficiency, but if your "mashout" is helping to mix all the sparge water then we might understand why??? food for thought anyways....cheers!

 

[eulipion2]

Interesting.....I wonder if the mash out is actually simply moving the heated water under the basket up through the grain bed as the hot water will want to rise...interesting as I generally feel a mashout does not increase efficiency, but if your "mashout" is helping to mix all the sparge water then we might understand why??? food for thought anyways....cheers!

Oh, another important thing: STIR! The grain bed usually holds temp pretty well, but the liquid outside it loses quickly. I stir every 10 minutes or so and if I need to turn the heat on, stir while I heat. Then, stir constantly while raising to mash-out temp. It's kind of a pain, but keeps me involved, and my temps are more constant.

 

[weeple2000]

I have a 72 qt pot with steamer basket. With sub-1.070 beers I generally get 75% efficiency. Did a 1.095 beer and got 71%. Session beers give me over ~85%.

There are a couple things I find affect my efficiency:
1.) too course of crush
2.) too short of mash
3.) no mash-out
4.) not squeezing the bag

Efficiency suffers for me if I don't mash out, just 15 min at 170.

My most recent attempt was the only one I knew what the LHBS mill was set at, it was .030. What do you consider to be too coarse? I also only ran once through, next time I'll do it twice. I did mash for 90 minutes that time and squeezed a lot from the bag.

I need to get a brewing spoon or paddle of some sort. I am using a large slotted spoon for cooking. I suspect I am not getting a good enough stir with it. This time I stirred a bit but not a ton, I think next time I will try stirring a lot more and see what that does for me.