Beyond Brewing Day

[Bubbles2]

Hello,
Thanks for looking in...

I was wondering about the instructions that come with many beer kits and what I am reading around the forum(s).

Many use One carboy or Primary for fermenting. They will leave it till it has reached FG, about 10 days for most batches. Then they bottle right from there. So that 'reads' as skipping the "Condition" phase as recommended by the instructions by two major kit dealers.

I've been using a secondary, after reaching FG, or so "I think" I've reached (usually attenuation % have been reached as well as some are printed FG goal). I am not opening every day for 3 days in a row, after the first 10 days have gone by to see if FG is reached or 'testing' to see if more attenuation is occurring. (Eg., - Inst. state FG is 1010 and I am at 1010, I call it)
Rather, I wait till no activity and about 10 days have gone by(aforementioned) and when transferring to secondary to help clear the beer, removing off the cake as I am going to be adding priming sugar and care not to stir up the trub at the bottom of the Primary. I wait about 2-3 days for it to settle in the secondary and then bottle.

I feel I am omitting the "conditioning" phase pointed out in the instructions, but also feel that there is 02 in the secondary, and it is just sitting exposed without any C02 purging out any 02 that is/now may be in the secondary; due to no attenuation or activity.

I Bottle and wait 3 weeks at 70º and then refrigerate for 24hrs.

Too new to know, flavor differences if there are unwanted, 02 exposed tainting going on.

Am I getting my "conditioning" while waiting the 3 weeks during priming or is there a reason to leave it for 2-4 weeks BEFORE priming?

 

[MHBT]

I like to leave my beers in primary for at least 3 weeks, i have rushed the beer before and it could have been better. So i think 3 or more weeks depending on beer, cold crash, package. That's my simple procedure for most ales, and if you bottle condition add another 3 weeks at least..Even if your beer reached terminal gravity it still has some cleaning and refining to do and its best to keep the beer with the yeast for this reason, cheers

 

[Bubbles2]

Ok thanks for that, it is not going to go "stale", it is just working ultra slow to "clean and refine". I guess from your comment/point; I've been rushing it. So I should leave it in the Secondary as the instructions point out?

 

[beernutz]

I suggest leaving it in the primary and skip the secondary. Transfer from primary to a bottling bucket when you are ready to bottle.

 

[MHBT]

Yeah your fine its not gonna stale, just leave it be for a few more days. the yeast produce byproducts during active fermentation that are not the tastiest compounds like diacetyl(buttery slick),acetaldehyde (green apple) which are normal compounds in every fermentation, but leaving the beer to sit on the yeast after all the sugars have been consumed they will use these compounds as food and clean up the beer and make it taste cleaner...your good, just give er time and you will be rewarded and practice keeping oxygen away from you finished beer..Cheers

 

[AJinJacksonville]

I typically only move to secondary when making some type of addition (sanitized apples, raw cider, etc.). If there are no additions, dry hopping, etc., I do like the others suggest and let it smooth over and finish in the primary fermenter.

 

[MHBT]

Bubbles2 you ever see this? its classic

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Saying "all beers" should be left in a primary for some amount of time is an invalid statement. They are all different. Some will benefit and some will not. Same with secondary's. Personally, I think using a secondary on "most" beers is more risk than gain but their are a few exceptions.

A 1.072 porter or stout, on a sluggish yeast and/or fermented cooler, is going to need way more time than a 1.050 heffy at 70 or 75 or a Saison with a voracious yeast at 85 or 90. Depending on flocculation, hops, adjuncts, and types of grain, some beers will age or change over time, but most can be aged in the keg or bottle just as well. Some beers simply do not age (don't sit on a good heffy or wit, drink it nice and fresh).

Will it hurt it to leave it? Most likely not. If there is a lot of hop bits in the trub, the bitterness and aromas may get a tad stronger. Will it go stale? Not if it stays sealed, the airlock remains sound and nothing bad got in prior to fermentation. People have left brews in the fermenter for many months for travel, medical or other reasons and the beer was perfectly fine when they got around to dealing with it.

If its not bubbling or showing any signs of pressure for a couple or few days, take a sample. If the numbers jives with your estimated FG, keg it! If it needs some aging time, stare at the keg and fight the urge to drink it In most cases, cold aging is more effective than warm aging anyway. If you feel better leaving it for another day or week, racking it because the sight of trub makes you queezy, or you want to do some strange dry hopping or fruit thing... more power to you. It will still be fine whenever you are ready for it. Be OCD about hygiene and all is good.

 

[aprichman]

If you are pitching sufficient quantities of healthy yeast and fermenting under the correct conditions you shouldn't need your beer to "clean up". Most professional breweries only ferment for 5-7 days and then transfer the beer to a bright tank where it is chilled and carbonated before it is packaged or served.

I think most beer recipes call for a secondary because it used to be standard practice and for liability purposes - it's much less likely that you're going to get bottle bombs.

 

[RM-MN]

If you are pitching sufficient quantities of healthy yeast and fermenting under the correct conditions you shouldn't need your beer to "clean up". Most professional breweries only ferment for 5-7 days and then transfer the beer to a bright tank where it is chilled and carbonated before it is packaged or served.

I think most beer recipes call for a secondary because it used to be standard practice and for liability purposes - it's much less likely that you're going to get bottle bombs.

Some of the breweries should have left their beers much longer to mature a bit but time and money seem to be the same to them. With that said, most ales have completed fermentation within that 5 to 7 days and cleanup is complete then too. The beer will have a lot of suspended yeast and some hop material that will continue to settle out. Big breweries do this in the bright tank so they can start another batch in the fermenter. Home brewers ferment in cheaper fermenters and can have more than one so they can let the trub settle out there instead of secondary (bright tank) and avoid the exposure to oxidation that the big boys avoid by direct plumbing to the bright tank that may have been purged with CO2.

 

[radwizard]

Good points. I'd like to add that some beers need a little extra time to come together. Often this can be done in the bottle or keg, and it is a lot less risky to so in terms of oxygen intake.

 

[MHBT]

Saying "all beers" should be left in a primary for some amount of time is an invalid statement. They are all different. Some will benefit and some will not. Same with secondary's. Personally, I think using a secondary on "most" beers is more risk than gain but their are a few exceptions.

A 1.072 porter or stout, on a sluggish yeast and/or fermented cooler, is going to need way more time than a 1.050 heffy at 70 or 75 or a Saison with a voracious yeast at 85 or 90. Depending on flocculation, hops, adjuncts, and types of grain, some beers will age or change over time, but most can be aged in the keg or bottle just as well. Some beers simply do not age (don't sit on a good heffy or wit, drink it nice and fresh).

Will it hurt it to leave it? Most likely not. If there is a lot of hop bits in the trub, the bitterness and aromas may get a tad stronger. Will it go stale? Not if it stays sealed, the airlock remains sound and nothing bad got in prior to fermentation. People have left brews in the fermenter for many months for travel, medical or other reasons and the beer was perfectly fine when they got around to dealing with it.

If its not bubbling or showing any signs of pressure for a couple or few days, take a sample. If the numbers jives with your estimated FG, keg it! If it needs some aging time, stare at the keg and fight the urge to drink it In most cases, cold aging is more effective than warm aging anyway. If you feel better leaving it for another day or week, racking it because the sight of trub makes you queezy, or you want to do some strange dry hopping or fruit thing... more power to you. It will still be fine whenever you are ready for it. Be OCD about hygiene and all is good.

You make some good points, true, not "all" beer need to sit x amount of time but i believe for a new brewer patience should be exercised, and keeping a beer in primary longer is usually a good thing and i did not say it like it was law, i said it like"this is what i do and try it out"

 

[aprichman]

Typically I will ferment in primary for 10 days and then rack to a keg that is chilled and carbonated for 10 days before serving. The first pint will sometimes have some sediment but it clears pretty quickly.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Generally secondary is not "necessary" in any way. Some people have thrown out the idea of yeast autolysis (the yeast basically dying and decomposing and causing problems if the beer is left on the yeast too long), but nobody has ever really shown this to be an issue at the homebrew level.

Secondary can have downsides, though. It requires more equipment (and thus more potential vectors for infection). It can introduce oxygen during the racking process. No racking process is perfect, so the fewer times you can rack a beer, the less oxygen pickup you'll get.

Where you can have an advantage is that the beer might be easier to clear when you use a secondary, especially since you're bottling. But IMHO that advantage doesn't outweigh the risks of secondary, particularly the risk of oxidation caused by additional racking steps--especially if you're new to brewing and haven't really nailed down your racking process.

 

[Bubbles2]

The question here is the "conditioning" Does it condition once it is Bottled or in the Keg? Not better ways to skip a secondary, or if it is in your flow... All of you had some valuable information to take in.
I have a Stout I brewed this morning, while my Lil Petite Orange is going to sit in the secondary for a few more days. I have another stout that was in the Primary for 2 weeks and the secondary for 10 days and now in the bottle for almost 3 weeks, and an IPA that finished in 10 days and secondary using Kleer for 2 days. That IPA is the one I am wondering if I 'rushed it' and now the question.
AMF..I spoke to a brewer over at NB and he stated he leaves his in the Primary for at least 2 weeks up to 3 before doing anything with it. That is the conditioning when the sugar is depleted as MattyHBT mentioned the yeast finish clearing and conditioning.

Does it condition once it is Bottled or in the Keg? OR did my eyes just open and realize that the Trub or Cake is what is required to 'clean up' / condition?

 

[bobeer]

I've never used a secondary. Back when I bottled I'd carefully rack the beer on top of hot priming solution and bottle from a bucket. I've done oak chip aging in the primary for 6 to 8 months with no issues. In the end it's all about experimentation and doing what's right for you and your setup.

 

[RM-MN]

The question here is the "conditioning" Does it condition once it is Bottled or in the Keg? Not better ways to skip a secondary, or if it is in your flow... All of you had some valuable information to take in.
I have a Stout I brewed this morning, while my Lil Petite Orange is going to sit in the secondary for a few more days. I have another stout that was in the Primary for 2 weeks and the secondary for 10 days and now in the bottle for almost 3 weeks, and an IPA that finished in 10 days and secondary using Kleer for 2 days. That IPA is the one I am wondering if I 'rushed it' and now the question.
AMF..I spoke to a brewer over at NB and he stated he leaves his in the Primary for at least 2 weeks up to 3 before doing anything with it. That is the conditioning when the sugar is depleted as MattyHBT mentioned the yeast finish clearing and conditioning.

Does it condition once it is Bottled or in the Keg? OR did my eyes just open and realize that the Trub or Cake is what is required to 'clean up' / condition?

All beers continue to mature/condition in the keg or bottle. For many beers but not all, this is beneficial. I love my stouts to have at least 6 months in the bottle. An imperial will be much better in a year. A wheat beer will be ready as soon as it gets carbonated.

 

[LLBrewer]

All beers continue to mature/condition in the keg or bottle. For many beers but not all, this is beneficial. I love my stouts to have at least 6 months in the bottle. An imperial will be much better in a year. A wheat beer will be ready as soon as it gets carbonated.

+1. I'm going to reiterate that many beers are better fresh. To the heffes and saissons I'd add pale hop forward beers. For these I'd shoot for 2 weeks (or less) grain to glass. Oh, get rid of the bottles as soon as possible and start kegging. Beer will continue to condition in the keg.