Better siphoning

[BryanEBIAB]

I did my first forced CO2 transfer today from my glass carboy to my keg. It was a success (beer ended up in the right place and I didn’t blow up the carboy) but I can definitely improve. Most of all, it was a lot slower than I expected. I didn’t dare turn the pressure up too high and my orange rubber carboy cap had to be held on so as not to leak gas. I naively thought I didn’t need gravity so started with both vessels on the same table. I quickly realized that wasn’t working as well as it could and managed to lower the keg as much as I could. I realize now that I need to make better use of the normal gravity-powered siphon action and just use the CO2 to kick things off and displace oxygen. I’ll definitely get a longer hose and increase the height difference.

Anyway, my question is about the hose—1/4” ID. My racking cane is also 1/4” ID. I’m using the keg’s dip tube as well and the QD which also has a limited inner diameter. Will a thicker hose help move beer faster given these other points stay the same?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Anyway, my question is about the hose—1/4” ID. My racking cane is also 1/4” ID. I’m using the keg’s dip tube as well and the QD which also has a limited inner diameter. Will a thicker hose help move beer faster given these other points stay the same?

I am pretty sure the narrow passage through the quick disconnect is the bottle neck. How long did the transfer take? I think my transfer for a 5 gallon batch usually takes around 15 minutes.

 

[tracer bullet]

I am pretty sure the narrow passage through the quick disconnect is the bottle neck.

Agreed. Especially if any hops whatsoever got lodged in it.

You could consider removing the poppet, but remember to do it at both the piece that screws onto the keg and the quick connecter that attaches to it. Temporarily of course, they'll need to go back later. Or keep a dedicated set on hand for this.

 

[BryanEBIAB]

It took me about 30 minutes for 5 gallons. The QD is definitely pretty narrow. Would using a bigger tube with that same QD make any difference? I’m thinking not but I guess it depends on how much friction contributes to slowing down the flow. I’m probably over-thinking it. Lesson is: CO2 pressure in a glass carboy is no replacement for gravity.

 

[balrog]

@BryanEBIAB , just use the CO2 to get siphon going then feed the (hopefully CO2 purged) keg gas to the carboy from the gas QD of the keg.

I just hook up autosiphon to keg liquid out QD, get it going, then fee keg gas QD back to fermenter to displace siphoned beer space with keg CO2. I purge the kegs during fermentation by feeding fermenter gas from airlock through keg to starsan jug.

 

[Dland]

I do closed gravity assist transfers from conical to kegs. The kegs are already purged with fermentation gas, like balrog, though I don't run it though starsan.

In any case, even though my fermentors are not designed for pressure, a few PSI CO2 pressure from a tank speeds the transfer considerably. With gas pressure just enough to replace what is siphoned it does take 20 min or so for each 5 gallons, with a little pressure, it only takes 10 minutes. Two or three pounds pressure won't blow carboy, the only question is if the stopper will stay in place. Increased height should also help.

 

[BryanEBIAB]

Thanks @Dland & @balrog! So, are you feeding the gas back into the vessel to save money on CO2 or is there another reason?

 

[tracer bullet]

Closed loop is simply - simple. Sure it saves some gas as well.

Fill the keg w/ star-san mixture or just simply water. Purge it out using CO2. Now your keg is full of CO2. Then attach it to the fermenter and let it flow. The beer goes in, the CO2 comes out and returns back to the fermenter. I'll attach a picture.

And note, if you didn't earlier, my note about taking the poppets out to speed up the flow, including having a dedicated one perhaps. Especially if you think you'll have any hops get in there.

Hopefully the picture link works (not my picture just a good example)

https://external-preview.redd.it/Go...bp&s=da93f27c137245bf282052f8695f9ca302e0a05a

 

[balrog]

Thanks @Dland & @balrog! So, are you feeding the gas back into the vessel to save money on CO2 or is there another reason?

Lazy. I hate driving to get a CO2 tank refilled. If I have a decently logical, easy enough process that uses fermentation gasses instead of tank gas to purge and transfer, I use it.

 

[Golddiggie]

Poor seals on the caps you use for doing a CO2 transfer on carboys is why I switched over to kegmenters years back. Or until early last year that is. With kegmenters, I had no problem using a higher pressure levels. Didn't have any leaks (once I had everything setup correctly), and the transfers went at a good rate.

I don't recall, exactly, the ID of the tubing I used for the transfers, but I think it was the normal beer line I used in the keezer. The dip tube in the kegmenter was the same ID as the ones in the serving kegs. I also don't recall transfer times, but I really didn't care much about that. NOT needing to lift a full kegmenter (with 6.5+ gallons of beer in it) was well worth it. Not disturbing the yeast cake also made it well worth it.

Lazy. I hate driving to get a CO2 tank refilled. If I have a decently logical, easy enough process that uses fermentation gasses instead of tank gas to purge and transfer, I use it.

I'm not that lazy. I just swapped my almost empty 10# CO2 bottle for a 20# bottle and put my dual body regulator on it. That's in the fermenting area now. That will be used to carbonate, transfer to keg, and purge cans for filling with the Tapcooler setup. I have another 20# CO2 bottle for the keezer. When my first nitro mix bottle kicked, I swapped it out for the 60 cubic foot one (first was a 20 IIRC). Next time I might go for the next size up there as well, if I can get one for home use levels. Not looking to do a tank lease right now.

 

[Dland]

Thanks @Dland & @balrog! So, are you feeding the gas back into the vessel to save money on CO2 or is there another reason?

Save a little money, but also more elegant. There is also the factor that most bottled CO2 has trace amounts of O2, not a big deal, but why not avoid it if free & easy to do so. There are a few threads on this, plenty of CO2 made in fermentation to purge kegs quite thoroughly.

I don't even displace starsan, as I have sanitized any empty kegs during prevoius brew rig clean up process (PBW & Starsan or Saniclean). Since my kegs have shortened dip tubes, I prefer to start with dry, sanitized kegs. It is also less lifting and uses less sanitizer.