Better heating for ferm chamber

[zizouandyuki]

I recently setup a 7 cubic foot chest freezer with an ITC-308 temp controller and a Lasko MyHeat for the heat source.

I can't figure out how to evenly heat the chamber. I have the set value @ 67*F and the deviations @ 2*F for heat and 1*F for cool. The temperature seems very stable when I check on it. The probe is set in a vial of water that is insulated with a microfiber towel and taped to the side of the carboy towards the lower half.

Right now, the top of my carboy is way too hot, and the bottom seems too cool. What methods do you use for even distribution of heat and cooling?

I'm honestly afraid that the current batches in there are ruined due to how warm the top of the carboy is. Please help!

 

[Hammy71]

Have you tried a fan inside the freezer? It's a simple fix by circulating the air in the chamber....

 

[aprichman]

First off, attach the temperature probe to the side of the carboy and insulate the probe from the outside. That will allow you to roughly measure and control the actual temperature of fermentation. If your ambient temperatures are 67F (and getting up to 69F before the heater kicks off) then your fermentation could easily be hitting close to 80F which is way too hot for ale yeasts.

Personally I would set the deviations to 1F for both heating and cooling. You could also install a small PC fan to always be on which would circulate the air in the chamber.

 

[RedlegEd]

First off, attach the temperature probe to the side of the carboy and insulate the probe from the outside. That will allow you to roughly measure and control the actual temperature of fermentation.

+1 ^^^ this, especially if you don't use a thermowell to directly measure wort temp. Secondly, rather than try to heat the entire space of the freezer/Fermenting Chamber (FC), I use a heating pad underneath the FV. This applies gentle heat directly where it needs to be instead of trying to heat the whole space. It's important that you get one that has a manual selector switch that will come on and stay on when your temp controller makes the switch, and shuts off when the power is shut off. The electronic/digital ones won't work.

 

[zizouandyuki]

Have you tried a fan inside the freezer? It's a simple fix by circulating the air in the chamber....

The Lasko MyHeat has a fan built-in. I've tried to position it so it distributes heat evenly, but it's difficult to do this coming from only one side.

First off, attach the temperature probe to the side of the carboy and insulate the probe from the outside. That will allow you to roughly measure and control the actual temperature of fermentation. If your ambient temperatures are 67F (and getting up to 69F before the heater kicks off) then your fermentation could easily be hitting close to 80F which is way too hot for ale yeasts.

Personally I would set the deviations to 1F for both heating and cooling. You could also install a small PC fan to always be on which would circulate the air in the chamber.

Thanks. I read through a number of threads on placement of the probe, and it seemed like many advocated for placing the probe in an airtight container of liquid attached to the side and insulated. Sounds like you're suggesting I should remove it from the container and just insulate it directly against the side of the carboy, correct? Just want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. Thanks!

+1 ^^^ this, especially if you don't use a thermowell to directly measure wort temp. Secondly, rather than try to heat the entire space of the freezer/Fermenting Chamber (FC), I use a heating pad underneath the FV. This applies gentle heat directly where it needs to be instead of trying to heat the whole space. It's important that you get one that has a manual selector switch that will come on and stay on when your temp controller makes the switch, and shuts off when the power is shut off. The electronic/digital ones won't work.

I've been considering another heat source, and this seems like a good solution. Will the heat distribute evenly even though it's only heating from the bottom? Thanks for the help.

 

[lschiavo]

I only ever used a fan forced space heater. I aimed it away from the carboy so it would not blow heat directly on it and set it to the lowest setting. I found the temp probe to be most accurate taped to the side of the carboy or sandwiched between carboys and insulated from the ambient air.

 

[govner1]

The Lasko MyHeat has a fan built-in. I've tried to position it so it distributes heat evenly, but it's difficult to do this coming from only one side.







Thanks. I read through a number of threads on placement of the probe, and it seemed like many advocated for placing the probe in an airtight container of liquid attached to the side and insulated. Sounds like you're suggesting I should remove it from the container and just insulate it directly against the side of the carboy, correct? Just want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. Thanks!







I've been considering another heat source, and this seems like a good solution. Will the heat distribute evenly even though it's only heating from the bottom? Thanks for the help.

I had a similar heater w/ a fan in my first ale ferm chamber- until it caught on FIRE!
Fortunately all the materials used were fire retardant & my temp controller turned off the power so my house didn't burn down
I've since built a larger chamber. I can accommodate at least 4 6g carboys for primary. I use a Ranco dual temp controller. For heat I use a ceramic reptile bulb. No light & very efficient. I've also added a small fan that runs constantly to circulate air. Very effective for a $7 investment from Wally World.
I have a similar setup (sans heat) in my lager chamber (freezer) but the fan comes on when the compressor is activated.

 

[Kampenken]

I have a smaller space, but can fit my 7g conical and if I squeeze it right two buckets at best, though I've only had one bucket with the conical.

I heat with a 25w reptile cable. My FC is in the basement, so temps don't drop much below upper 50s.

Personally since you're this far invested in temp control, I'd spring for a thermowell, I imagine you can even drill it in from the top. Then you will get beer temps and no need to worry about the rest.

 

[zizouandyuki]

I have a smaller space, but can fit my 7g conical and if I squeeze it right two buckets at best, though I've only had one bucket with the conical.

I heat with a 25w reptile cable. My FC is in the basement, so temps don't drop much below upper 50s.

Personally since you're this far invested in temp control, I'd spring for a thermowell, I imagine you can even drill it in from the top. Then you will get beer temps and no need to worry about the rest.

My concern with this is that the thermowell would be measuring the temperature of the beer from the center of the carboy, while the outside walls would continue to heat beyond what the probe is reading.

I do think finding a less intense heat source (like the reptile cable) would benefit me here... seems like maybe the lasko heater is too much for this size space.

 

[bigken462]

I layer two small sections of reflectex over my temp probe taped to the outside of the carboy. The paint can heater is about as simple as one can make it. Has never failed me yet.

Ken

 

[masonsjax]

Take the advice to keep a PC fan running all the time. I use the myheat as well, aimed away from the carboy, but I have a pair of PC fans always on and have not had any problems with temps differing top to bottom.

 

[zizouandyuki]

Take the advice to keep a PC fan running all the time. I use the myheat as well, aimed away from the carboy, but I have a pair of PC fans always on and have not had any problems with temps differing top to bottom.

Thanks. Where and how do you mount the PC fans? Are there any special considerations that need to be made? Cheers!

 

[augiedoggy]

Have you considered something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x80-400W-...412829?hash=item3d16bbd21d:g:1jEAAOSwKtlWo6tJ

I use one wrapped around the lower part of each of my stainless conicals and they work great... The heat rises naturally mixing the temps so they are even...

the ones I use are only 24v and put out less wattage.... something like this would likely work better then the 400w one above..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-X-1000mm...900387?hash=item3f587371a3:g:~PMAAOSwwE5WYoqN

or these if you have a good powersupply.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-24V-40W...hash=item27f0ede4cd:m:m6TFIJGNRRimJhI-UuJoDaQ

 

[RedlegEd]

@zizouandyuki. You're getting good advice regarding a fan in your FC to keep the air moving and temp constant. Here's my setup. I use a simple, $9 desk fan from W-mart, so I don't need a separate power supply. I just put mine in the basket, but if you don't have one, you can set in on the hump. I also found the combination of this thermowell (12" or 16",) and the Inkbird ITC-1000/STC-1000+ works really well to control my ferm temps. The probe fits neatly all the way to the bottom of the thermowell. The trick is not to put the thermowell in the center of the lid, rather about 2-3" in from the side. That'll help prevent wild swings in the wort's temperature. The multiple plugs on the controller go to a heating pad under the FV, and to a seedling warmer mat I bungee onto the side.

 

[zizouandyuki]

@zizouandyuki. You're getting good advice regarding a fan in your FC to keep the air moving and temp constant. Here's my setup. I use a simple, $9 desk fan from W-mart, so I don't need a separate power supply. I just put mine in the basket, but if you don't have one, you can set in on the hump. I also found the combination of this thermowell (12" or 16",) and the Inkbird ITC-1000/STC-1000+ works really well to control my ferm temps. The probe fits neatly all the way to the bottom of the thermowell. The trick is not to put the thermowell in the center of the lid, rather about 2-3" in from the side. That'll help prevent wild swings in the wort's temperature. The multiple plugs on the controller go to a heating pad under the FV, and to a seedling warmer mat I bungee onto the side.

Thanks again for your help. I'm planning to put a fan in today -- seems there is 100% consensus that this should be done.

Placing the thermowell to the side will be difficult since I use carboys. I guess buckets are inexpensive and this could be done, but I'm a bit reluctant due to the compromises of plastic vs. glass.

 

[RedlegEd]

Placing the thermowell to the side will be difficult since I use carboys. I guess buckets are inexpensive and this could be done, but I'm a bit reluctant due to the compromises of plastic vs. glass.

Absolutely, you should do what's right for you. As others have said, be sure to insulate your sensor from ambient on the outside of the carboy with bubble wrap, Reflectix, or foam. Please be really careful with your glass carboys. While they provide the benefit of being impermeable to Oxygen, they can be really dangerous if you drop, or even bump them too hard, and they are subject to cracking due to thermal shock if you put hot wort into cold glass. If nothing else, spend a few $ on a good nylon harness or even a good sturdy milk crate to hold the carboy. For goodness sake, please don't use those silly screw on handles to move or carry your filled carboys. The neck isn't designed to hold 40+ pounds of wort or beer without being supported.

 

[aprichman]

I have my temperature probe hooked up to the middle of my carboy on the outside wall. After that I insulate it with a giant sponge that gets strapped down by two flat bungee cords. Keeps my temps at ~ +/- 1F. I also keep the carboy in a milk crate which keeps the bottom from making direct contact with the freezer.

 

[BlueHouseBrew]

+1 on the heating pad. I use these: Sunbeam 756-500 ($10.44 on Amazon). I put the temp sensor on one side of the fermentor, insulated with bubble wrap, and I stretch wrap the heating pad to the other side of the fermentor. (The thought on putting it on the side is that it makes 100% contact and should set up a good convection current in the fermentor so that it heats evenly.) This has worked for me on buckets, glass carboys, and 1/2bbl kegs. Generally holds within 0.2°C with a stock STC-1000 as a controller.

 

[zizouandyuki]

Absolutely, you should do what's right for you. As others have said, be sure to insulate your sensor from ambient on the outside of the carboy with bubble wrap, Reflectix, or foam. Please be really careful with your glass carboys. While they provide the benefit of being impermeable to Oxygen, they can be really dangerous if you drop, or even bump them too hard, and they are subject to cracking due to thermal shock if you put hot wort into cold glass. If nothing else, spend a few $ on a good nylon harness or even a good sturdy milk crate to hold the carboy. For goodness sake, please don't use those silly screw on handles to move or carry your filled carboys. The neck isn't designed to hold 40+ pounds of wort or beer without being supported.

All good on the safe handling, but appreciate you looking out for me. Learned the hard way on the neck collars

 

[Kampenken]

My concern with this is that the thermowell would be measuring the temperature of the beer from the center of the carboy, while the outside walls would continue to heat beyond what the probe is reading.

I do think finding a less intense heat source (like the reptile cable) would benefit me here... seems like maybe the lasko heater is too much for this size space.

Yeah if you're FC is not in a freezing cold area a 25w heat source is plenty. As for thermowell location I wouldn't fret. Tons of folks get by fine with that setup. Maybe someone wise in thermodynamics can answer your heat transfer issue. But a slower heat source and a thermowell will set you up right.

 

[masonsjax]

Thanks. Where and how do you mount the PC fans? Are there any special considerations that need to be made? Cheers!

I cut the end off an old cell phone charger, soldered the leads to a pair of 80mm PC fans I pulled from an old unused computer case, and zip tied the fans to a wire rack in the freezer. It's pretty simple but does the truck.

I also put one or two of the Eva-Dry reusable dehumidifiers in front of the fans to keep frost from building up.

 

[zizouandyuki]

Just wanted to say thanks for all of the help. Since attaching the probe directly to the outside of the carboy and insulating, the temperature has stabilized incredibly well! I've not noticed any large temperature swings over the past 36 hours.

The fan goes in today as an extra measure.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Natdavis777]

I layer two small sections of reflectex over my temp probe taped to the outside of the carboy. The paint can heater is about as simple as one can make it. Has never failed me yet.

Ken

My system exactly. Works great