Berliner Weiss, many ways

[bknifefight]

So what exactly do you think the lacto is doing, if its not eating sugar?

I don't know, I never had a chance to ask before I killed them all in the boil :cross:
I only say that because my brewhouse OGs have been as expected or better when doing a sour mash. If they ate a significant amount of sugar, my readings would have shown it.

 

[Ostomo517]

I don't know, I never had a chance to ask before I killed them all in the boil :cross:
I only say that because my brewhouse OGs have been as expected or better when doing a sour mash. If they ate a significant amount of sugar, my readings would have shown it.

They do consume sugar, how much is probably the better question

 

[inflictor-of-grimness]

Doesn't some lacto also produce alcohol?

 

[Whalewang]

Doesn't some lacto also produce alcohol?

Mhmm, WLP677 is an example of a strain that does.

 

[Tinga]

Doesn't some lacto also produce alcohol?

the mad fermentationist tried to do a 100% lacto berliner.
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2012/06/100-lactobacillus-berliner-weisse.html

 

[inflictor-of-grimness]

What about lacto straight from grain? Will it produce any alcohol?

 

[TNGabe]

Mhmm, WLP677 is an example of a strain that does.

Where are you getting that info from?

 

[hopstupid]

11

 

[Tiroux]

These are homo-fermentation and hetero-fermentation strains of lactobacillus (sorry, I don't know the exact terms in english).

Some strains produce Lactic acid + CO2(homo), and some produce Lactic acid + Ethanol + CO2 (hetero).

Always from eating sugar, and no how else.

WLP677, which is lactobacillus delbrueckii does NOT create ethanol, for what I know.

 

[urbanmyth]

I just popped the first bottle of a sour mashed Berliner today. I mashed for a whole week. Was only planning on four days, but life caught up with me. Fermented it with WLP036 Dussledorf Alt yeast.

Turned out fantastic. I've never had another example of the style, but it will be my lawnmower beer this summer for sure. Brightly acidic with a bready, wheaty finish that'll be perfect after a hot summer afternoon. And only 3%.

 

[Whalewang]

Where are you getting that info from?

The only information I have is second-hand. I just sent out an email to White labs for more info on this since they have absolutely nothing posted about this strain.

 

[barryfine]

I'm going to be brewing up a raspberry berliner weiss this weekend using the sour wort method with White Labs lacto. I'm going to hold it at 110 from Friday evening until Sunday morning using a heat stick attached to a digital temperature controller in my boil kettle.

I'm going to make a session ipa the same day. Since the mash is already done for the first beer it should make for a quick double brew day.

 

[Tiroux]

I'm going to be brewing up a raspberry berliner weiss this weekend using the sour wort method with White Labs lacto. I'm going to hold it at 110 from Friday evening until Sunday morning using a heat stick attached to a digital temperature controller in my boil kettle.

I'm going to make a session ipa the same day. Since the mash is already done for the first beer it should make for a quick double brew day.

Seems like a good day..

..unless you spil sour mash juice in your cooled IPA wort

 

[barryfine]

Seems like a good day..

..unless you spil sour mash juice in your cooled IPA wort

Haha that would be interesting, but by the time IPA wort is chilled the sour will already have been boiled, chilled and tucked away in my fermentation chamber.

 

[Calder]

Lacto don't produce co2 and dont eat sugar? We learn everyday...

They all consume sugar. Some produce CO2

These are homo-fermentation and hetero-fermentation strains of lactobacillus (sorry, I don't know the exact terms in english).

Some strains produce Lactic acid + CO2(homo), and some produce Lactic acid + Ethanol + CO2 (hetero).

You have the names right:

Homofermentive converts 1 sugar unit into 2 units of Lactic Acid and NO CO2.

heterofermentive converts 1 unit of sugar in to 1 unit of lactic acid + 1 unit of alcohol + 1 unit of CO2 (or something close to that).

 

[inflictor-of-grimness]

I've asked a couple times already and no one has answered me, so I will ask again and see if anyone knows.

Is the lacto from a base grain used to make a sour wort homo or heterofermentive?

 

[GatorBeer]

I've asked a couple times already and no one has answered me, so I will ask again and see if anyone knows.

Is the lacto from a base grain used to make a sour wort homo or heterofermentive?

Nobody knows. It's not even a pure lacto culture, there's most likely other stuff on the grain too. We just chuck it in an hope for the best. That is also the cause of a lot of this confusion.

 

[Tiroux]

Some produce co2? And some don't? They produce what? They do a magic transformation from sugar to acid or ethanol?

 

[Tiroux]

Some produce co2? And some don't? They produce what? They do a magic transformation from sugar to acid or ethanol?

Sorry, read too fast...

Really, sugar to 2 units of lactic acid?
Can I see the formula of that transformation, i'm curious..

 

[GatorBeer]

Sorry, read too fast...

Really, sugar to 2 units of lactic acid?
Can I see the formula of that transformation, i'm curious..

I believe this is the pathway.

 

[bknifefight]

Haha that would be interesting, but by the time IPA wort is chilled the sour will already have been boiled, chilled and tucked away in my fermentation chamber.

I had a purposely lacto infected IPA at the Grand Teton Brewing company sever years ago which was fantastic.

 

[Whalewang]

The only information I have is second-hand. I just sent out an email to White labs for more info on this since they have absolutely nothing posted about this strain.

Sarah Engel from White labs with the following:
"It is a pure bacteria strain that is heterofermentative so it produces alcohol and lactic acid.

The lactic acid this bacteria produces that sours the beer. The alcohol production will vary depending on when you add it and how long it sits. It's not generally used to produce alcohol."

 

[Tiroux]

Sarah Engel from White labs with the following:
"It is a pure bacteria strain that is heterofermentative so it produces alcohol and lactic acid.

The lactic acid this bacteria produces that sours the beer. The alcohol production will vary depending on when you add it and how long it sits. It's not generally used to produce alcohol."

It makes sens, now, according to what GatorBeer said...

If heterofermentation produces CO2 and homofermentation doesn't...

I fermented half part of my Berliner Weisse with only Lacto from WL for 3 weeks, and it was producing A LOT of Co2, believe me.

 

[TopherM]

Small beachfront hippie-type town about 15 min from my house is closing off their main street and hosting a Berlinner Bash with about 15 breweries and 30+ Berlinners. The only drawback is it's a bit pricey. $4.00 for each 8 oz beer. I'm going to go check it out, though!

 

[GatorBeer]

Small beachfront hippie-type town about 15 min from my house is closing off their main street and hosting a Berlinner Bash with about 15 breweries and 30+ Berlinners. The only drawback is it's a bit pricey. $4.00 for each 8 oz beer. I'm going to go check it out, though!

You live near Peg's? Super jealous, please report back on your favorites, the line-up is amazing.

 

[inflictor-of-grimness]

Small beachfront hippie-type town about 15 min from my house is closing off their main street and hosting a Berlinner Bash with about 15 breweries and 30+ Berlinners. The only drawback is it's a bit pricey. $4.00 for each 8 oz beer. I'm going to go check it out, though!

Make sure to drink some J Wakefield berliners.

 

[TopherM]

Yep, I'm about 10 miles from Pegs. I'll definitely report back!

 

[bknifefight]

I am serving a sour mashed Berlinner Weisse at a local beer festival tomorrow. I will report back with how it was received.

 

[HopHoarder]

I bottled my 5a today and wow it sure tastes more sour after full fermentation. I guess it's due to the fermentable sugars that were giving it some sweetness before are now gone (FG was 1.010). I may need to add some sweetness to this one when serving.

 

[bknifefight]

I am serving a sour mashed Berlinner Weisse at a local beer festival tomorrow. I will report back with how it was received.

My Berliner Weisse went out REALLY well at the fest. People kept coming back and having more. Another homebrew club had some "mit schuss" but I preferred it without. Just having a few people come back and tell me how much they liked it made the whole festival worthwhile.