Berliner Weiss, many ways

[mbbarnes]

DO NOT add crushed grains. Use uncrushed grains for sour mash.

I have my first sour mash in the fermenter right now. I used crushed grain to add the lacto since I had some laying around. Why is it you should not use crushed grain?

 

[bknifefight]

I have read crushed grains will add a grainy-ness to the finished beer that uncrushed grains do not

 

[malweth]

4 days at 110F - Creamed corn, hot garbage smells. Insanely sour. Think of the warhead candy. Too sour.

1/2 of batch 4 days at 110F blended with 1/2 non-sour - Puckeringly tart, sour, but pleasant.

5-7 days at room temp with saran wrap over it and airlock on bucket - minimal smell, some creamed corn, lightly sour, mellow even. Sourness took a back seat.

As a data point... mine is finished now. I used 10% Acidulated Malt (as I've mentioned) and had it at an average of 93°F for exactly 4 days. I'd say I'm at that puckeringly tart, sour level (I do love sours). I used a handful of very random base grains (took it out of a bunch of bags: pils, MO, rye, wheat) in a paint strainer bag. I have no idea whether the amount of grain makes a big difference (I did not measure).

 

[Tiroux]

I have read crushed grains will add a grainy-ness to the finished beer that uncrushed grains do not

I can't find any logic explanation for this in my brain...

I used to put a lot of crushed grains in my beer...

 

[terrapinj]

I read that the crushed grains can leave unconverted starch behind which can cause haze

 

[fc36]

I have my first sour mash in the fermenter right now. I used crushed grain to add the lacto since I had some laying around. Why is it you should not use crushed grain?

See below

I read that the crushed grains can leave unconverted starch behind which can cause haze

That's exactly why you don't use crushed grains. You only want the little baddies on the exterior of the grain husk (i.e. Lacto) and you already have the necessary wort made up from your traditional mash.

 

[zeekage]

I used uncrushed grain for my sour mashed berliner and it was still amazingly cloudy from the first pint to the last. I don't think haze is necessarily a problem in this style and is actually common. Though, 2 of the commercial versions I've had were clear. Though I don't know if there are other adverse effects of unconverted starches in the final product.

 

[terrapinj]

mine is def hazy from the wheat

 

[Tiroux]

It's a lovely haze that clearly fits the style I think!!

 

[Calder]

As a data point... mine is finished now. I used 10% Acidulated Malt (as I've mentioned) and had it at an average of 93°F for exactly 4 days. I'd say I'm at that puckeringly tart, sour level (I do love sours). I used a handful of very random base grains (took it out of a bunch of bags: pils, MO, rye, wheat) in a paint strainer bag. I have no idea whether the amount of grain makes a big difference (I did not measure).

You may have mentioned it, but I'm not going searching. Did you get ant foul smell from the souring wort? What measures did you take to reduce it. I'm asking to see if the acidulated malt kept it in check.

 

[mmonacel]

When doing a sour wort / sour mash and tasting until you get the desired level of sourness has anyone found that after the boil and fermentation the sourness level changes at all (up or down) or does it stay constant?

 

[GatorBeer]

I've found that the sampled wort tastes the same level of sour as the finished product.

 

[malweth]

You may have mentioned it, but I'm not going searching. Did you get ant foul smell from the souring wort? What measures did you take to reduce it. I'm asking to see if the acidulated malt kept it in check.

I did nothing to stop smell. I got plenty of the creamed corn smell, but nothing overly foul.

Mine was kept in the brew kettle w/ a paint strainer bag with grain in it (uncrushed). Only the brew kettle lid was over the kettle (I covered the small hole in the lid - a bayou 9 gallon stainless pot w/ lid). This was in my fermentation chamber w/ a paint can heater (60 W bulb, I think) that kept it as hot as it would go (set to 100°F, but it hit 95° during the day, and closer to 90° at night).

For all that my chamber is pretty well sealed up, my extra bathroom isn't the cleanest place in the world (mold, etc grows easily). I don't use the bathroom for any bodily functions (aside from breathing, I suppose)

 

[HopHoarder]

I made a 5a sour mashing the whole thing at 110 for around 42 hours, then doing a 15 minute boil then pitched Safale US-05 yeast (washed yeast from a Coriander wit beer) and after 2 days is still bubbling along happily. This was a 3 gallon 5lb grain bill batch that sat in a full pot covered with Glad Cling Wrap. I also added 6oz unmilled acidulated malt and 2 oz 2 row into the mash. The pot of mash sat inside my 60 quart kettle with a 36" car battery warmer sleeve around the base of the mash pot which kept the whole mash at a nice even 110 the whole time. Had little odour after 48 hours but had a nice tart twang of taste to it.

 

[Xpertskir]

Currently waiting for my homemade lacto starter to do its thing prior to a 2a brew.

As previously noted, I am trying to replicate the kumquat BW I had at cigar city.

I have 2 lbs of kumquats...I was thinking about adding half at fllameout and then half after active fermentation dies down(frozen and thawed).

Any opinions? Should I just add it all post ferm?

 

[GatorBeer]

Currently waiting for my homemade lacto starter to do its thing prior to a 2a brew.

As previously noted, I am trying to replicate the kumquat BW I had at cigar city.

I have 2 lbs of kumquats...I was thinking about adding half at fllameout and then half after active fermentation dies down(frozen and thawed).

Any opinions? Should I just add it all post ferm?

2 lb of kumquat for 5 gallons? I haven't had the CCB beer but if it has a big fruit flavor you're going to need a lot more then 2 lbs for 5 gallons. I think the common addition rate is 1lb/gallon but I've found that isn't even enough.

As far as adding, I'd add them all post fermentation, I don't think you're going to get too much at flameout.

 

[GatorBeer]

I started souring 2 gallons wort with a handful of grain at room temp (~72F) 8 days ago and it's finally sour enough to boil and start fermenting today. Just another anecdote.

 

[Xpertskir]

2 lb of kumquat for 5 gallons? I haven't had the CCB beer but if it has a big fruit flavor you're going to need a lot more then 2 lbs for 5 gallons. I think the common addition rate is 1lb/gallon but I've found that isn't even enough.

As far as adding, I'd add them all post fermentation, I don't think you're going to get too much at flameout.

The CCB has tons of kumquat flavor. This once cheap beer keeps getting more expensive.

Have you specifically used kumquats? There is some variance within the 1 lb per gallon dosage rate between fruits based on the assertiveness of the fruit in question, right?

 

[GatorBeer]

The CCB has tons of kumquat flavor. This once cheap beer keeps getting more expensive.

Have you specifically used kumquats? There is some variance within the 1 lb per gallon dosage rate between fruits based on the assertiveness of the fruit in question, right?

Yeah there's definitely a difference on fruits, which is why you'll hear people say not to use peaches or to use raspberries. I haven't used kumquats but just from my fruiting experience, I've always found more is better.

And yeah, I'm right there with you, fruiting beer gets $$$$$ quickly.

 

[fc36]

http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/04/02/brewing-fruit-beers-at-home-part-1-of-2/

This is a great source for some quick rules of thumb. Unfortunately, they don't specifically list kumquats, but they seem to be a fairly gentle flavor that may require somewhere in the range of 1-2 lbs per gallon to really have the flavor shine through.

 

[Xpertskir]

Thanks for the advice. Besides being tough to find, I'm paying 8 bucks a pound...Looks as though this is going to be one of my most expensive batches to date. I'll try 5 lbs and report the results. I would hate to spend 20 bucks on fruit and not get any flavor.

 

[Tiroux]

Bottled my 1030og lacto/brett splitted fermentation BW, primmed with honey. Not as acidic as expected, and still have this phenolic smell from the brett that I had in the starter, I thought it would go away...

Next time I'll try with a clean sacch strain or maybe a german weizen strain.

 

[Calder]

Yeah there's definitely a difference on fruits, which is why you'll hear people say not to use peaches or to use raspberries. I haven't used kumquats but just from my fruiting experience, I've always found more is better.

In this case, more is not better. I think you will find 1 lb is probably more than you need. Once it is in there you can't pull that flavor out, but you can add more later (taste it after a week or 2 and then add more).

A lot of the flavor in kumquats comes from the oils in the skins. Similar to oranges.

I added some to 1 gallon of a Lambic and it is probably too much. My wife had bought a small pack. Probably 6 ozs, it was the same size as a small pack of raspberries. I used what was left over after a couple of weeks in the beer; probably closer to 3 ozs in the gallon.

Chop them up and soak them in vodka for a week and add the fruit with the vodka. The higher alcohol of the vodka will better extract the oils and will also sanitize the fruit.

 

[TNGabe]

Thanks for the advice. Besides being tough to find, I'm paying 8 bucks a pound...Looks as though this is going to be one of my most expensive batches to date. I'll try 5 lbs and report the results. I would hate to spend 20 bucks on fruit and not get any flavor.

Didnt save the link, but I found a citrus grower selling 20lb boxes for 28$ shipped, maybe it was only 10lbs, either way it's a great deal if they till have them.

 

[LiquidArtisan]

Currently waiting for my homemade lacto starter to do its thing prior to a 2a brew.

As previously noted, I am trying to replicate the kumquat BW I had at cigar city.

I have 2 lbs of kumquats...I was thinking about adding half at fllameout and then half after active fermentation dies down(frozen and thawed).

Any opinions? Should I just add it all post ferm?

Kumquats are used just like orange peel, use them whole & toss them in @ the end of the boil or in the secondary. I'd do both just like your thinking, but I'm not sure about the amount? I would compare it to orange peel by surface area so 3-4 = 1 orange? Guessing here, I would start with about 9 kumquats in the boil & taste before adding more in the secondary. Might have to try this, Let me know how it turns out.

 

[Xpertskir]

In this case, more is not better. I think you will find 1 lb is probably more than you need. Once it is in there you can't pull that flavor out, but you can add more later (taste it after a week or 2 and then add more).

A lot of the flavor in kumquats comes from the oils in the skins. Similar to oranges.

I added some to 1 gallon of a Lambic and it is probably too much. My wife had bought a small pack. Probably 6 ozs, it was the same size as a small pack of raspberries. I used what was left over after a couple of weeks in the beer; probably closer to 3 ozs in the gallon.

Chop them up and soak them in vodka for a week and add the fruit with the vodka. The higher alcohol of the vodka will better extract the oils and will also sanitize the fruit.

Ok, great. I had read up about fruiting and was looking at kumquats as an entirely different animal to berries and stone fruit. Glad to know I was right. So you are saying 3 oz per gallon gave a strong kumquat flavor, with the chopped and soaked in vodka treatment?

 

[GatorBeer]

Has anyone seen fermentation just from the lacto culture off the grains? I had soured for 8 days at room temp and after a quick 10 minute boil I took my gravity reading and it read 1.013!! It should have been 1.039!

 

[fc36]

Has anyone seen fermentation just from the lacto culture off the grains? I had soured for 8 days at room temp and after a quick 10 minute boil I took my gravity reading and it read 1.013!! It should have been 1.039!

Many species of lactobacillus is generally homofermentative and will produce lactic acid and very little else. More likely you have a super sour beer with very little alcohol.

 

[GatorBeer]

Many species of lactobacillus is generally homofermentative and will produce lactic acid and very little else. More likely you have a super sour beer with very little alcohol.

So you're saying it was converting sugars into lactic acid and not ethanol?

 

[Tiroux]

So you're saying it was converting sugars into lactic acid and not ethanol?

That's what you want when adding lacto.