Berlin Weisse, best method or technique?

[JBOGAN]

Thinking about brewing up a Berlin Weisse in the next few months. Research has been a bit tricky because it seems like there are so many variables when brewing this beer. Does anyone have a technique that creates a nice sour quick turn around brew? Sour mashing seems like it gets things going faster but can lead to a super mouth puckering beer if not done 100% correct. Any feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[jivex5k]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/berliner-weiss-many-ways-385934/

Personally:
First sanitize everything. This won't be boiled for at least 3 days.
50/50 Pilsen/Wheat
Mash in @145F for 45.
Cool to 120F leaving grains in.
Throw 2 handfuls of unmilled grains, cover mash with sanitized saran wrap.
Put under a heat lamp for 5 days. (very sour) Longer you leave it the more sour it gets. (to a limit of course, ph can only lower so much from lacto) Taste as it sours the first time to gauge what timeframe is right for your tastes. It gets a bit more sour after carbing.
Collect wort, bring to boil for 20 minutes.
.5 tettnang @ 15 minutes.
Pitch US-05, keep around 64F.
Fermentation start lags due to low ph, this is normal.
After primary bottle with ~ 3 CO2 volume, or rack to secondary with fruit for a week and then bottle.

Creates a really clean sourness with 3-4 week turnaround.
I use grains for lacto because it supposedly gives a better sourness. You can do it without a heat lamp as well, just takes longer to sour.
Keeping oxygen out during souring is the most important part by far. It will create horrible flavors.

Some like to collect the wort and sour that instead of the mash, works well according to forum posts.

Some like to ferment with brett, it works very well in low ph and if it's done as the primary fermentation by itself it works much more quickly and can finish in 1-2 weeks. I'm planning on doing this very soon, interested in the difference.

But check out that thread for more detailed info and more first hand reports. Personally I've had excellent results with my method and don't intend to change much besides trying brett in place of sacc.

 

[Calder]

Many ways .........

It is supposed to be very sour!

My method (I've tried several different way, this is how I've come to like it):

- No hops
- No crystal or other specialty grains
- Did I mention, NO HOPS .... this is really important!
- Boil wort for a few minutes (just thru the break)
- Use probiotics; Lactobacillus Acidopohilis (2 billion+ live cells per gallon). Crushed and added to wort. Will not work if there are any hops!
- Minimize aeration. Maintain temp 90 to 100 F.
- After 5 days taste wort. If sour (enough), add yeast, if not, keep at 90+ F.
- It is usually sour in 5 to 7 days.
- Once sour, you can boil and add hops if you want, but I see no need for this extra step.
- Add yeast (2X what you would normally use in a beer), and aerate
- After 2 more weeks, either bottle, or add dry hops. Dry hops should be subtle (1 ounce in 5 gallons max), I like Nelson Sauvin in a BW.
Drink 2 weeks after bottling.

Whatever you do, good luck.

 

[Natdavis777]

My recent method was as such:

Mashed with 50/50 wheat/pilsner
Sparged and ran off into two 7 gal bucket fermenters (10 gal batch)
dropped in some bagged, unmashed grain into each
Snapped lids on half way and purged with Co2
Sealed them up and put them in the attic for 3 days (~ 98F ambient)
After 3 days, put in BK and boiled for 20 min with .5 oz of Tettnager
Fermented and forced carbed

I did mine this way bc the most efficient way for me to keep the wort @ high temps was to put in my attic, and I wasnt muscling up a full 12gal keggle.

I dont think I purged enough C02, or my temps dropped bc I ended up with acetobacter. It had a slight aroma of feet/vomit. Tasted fine though. Honestly thought it would be more sour than what it was for 3 days.

The two tips Id give would be to purge your sour mash with alot of Co2 to get all the o2 out, and try and keep the temps on the higher end, ~115F-120F

 

[ArcaneXor]

I am a big fan of post-boil souring using a pure lactobacillus culture, a neutral European ale yeast, and Brettanomyces on about 75% Pils/25%Wheat mashed at 158 degrees and boiled for <15 minutes, because this combination comes closest to what a pre-1970s authentic Berliner Weisse would have tasted like (I have the 300+ page Berliner Weisse book from VLB). I actually have some pilot batches with different combinations of these going right now. I am also playing with the idea of adding some crushed wheat berries at mash-out to increase the amount of starches available to the lacto. I usually use a very small dose (0.35 oz/10.5 gal) of low-alpha hops like Hersbrucker, although can do this style without any hops at all.

My hope is that the recently released commercial lacto cultures GY 110 (Gigayeast's Fast-souring lacto) and WLP 672 (L. brevis) will make post-boil soured Berliners easier and quicker than the older commercial lacto cultures, which were pretty finicky.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions about this style is that it is a wheat beer, which it is not necessarily. While Bavarian Weisse and Belgian Wit are definitely wheat beers, Berliner Weisse can be brewed authentically with 100% barley malt. In the early 1980s, two of three breweries a researcher sampled used 100% barley for their grist.

For any interested, they boiled not at all or for less than five minutes, they fermented between 64 and 77 degrees, and the IBUs were between 3.4 and 9.0. One brewery actually split their wort 50/50, boiling half and fermenting it like a regular ale, and letting the lacto ferment the not-boiled other half of the wort at around 115 degrees.

 

[biertourist]

I am a big fan of post-boil souring using a pure lactobacillus culture, a neutral European ale yeast, and Brettanomyces on about 75% Pils/25%Wheat mashed at 158 degrees and boiled for <15 minutes, because this combination comes closest to what a pre-1970s authentic Berliner Weisse would have tasted like (I have the 300+ page Berliner Weisse book from VLB). I actually have some pilot batches with different combinations of these going right now. I am also playing with the idea of adding some crushed wheat berries at mash-out to increase the amount of starches available to the lacto. I usually use a very small dose (0.35 oz/10.5 gal) of low-alpha hops like Hersbrucker, although can do this style without any hops at all.

My hope is that the recently released commercial lacto cultures GY 110 (Gigayeast's Fast-souring lacto) and WLP 672 (L. brevis) will make post-boil soured Berliners easier and quicker than the older commercial lacto cultures, which were pretty finicky.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions about this style is that it is a wheat beer, which it is not necessarily. While Bavarian Weisse and Belgian Wit are definitely wheat beers, Berliner Weisse can be brewed authentically with 100% barley malt. In the early 1980s, two of three breweries a researcher sampled used 100% barley for their grist.

For any interested, they boiled not at all or for less than five minutes, they fermented between 64 and 77 degrees, and the IBUs were between 3.4 and 9.0. One brewery actually split their wort 50/50, boiling half and fermenting it like a regular ale, and letting the lacto ferment the not-boiled other half of the wort at around 115 degrees.

Bravo! Amazing post and amazing beer lineup in your signature. I don't like a post very often, but this one deserves it.

 

[Roundhouse]

I had a decent Berliner Weisse in Iowa last week that cheated the sourness. They made and fermented the beer as they do their other ales. After fermentation was complete they added lactic acid to it until it was soured where they hit a ph level that they wanted. I don't know what that was though. I had my concerns about the technique but it seemed to work. At the very least it was creative and they could get consistent results. I admittedly haven't had many of this style though so I'm not sure what they are truly supposed to taste like. It wasn't bad in my opinion though. For all I know compared to others it sucked! I have no idea.

 

[TopherM]

Check out my post. I read the whole long thread and summarized it. Several brewers in my club have used this method with great results, and one even just won a gold medal in a FL competition with this method:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/ber...ml#post6123428