Bentonite flocculation

[Levers101]

I'm planning on adding bentonite to flocculate my cider. How does one go about this? My guess is that I hydrate it in water first and then add it? Otherwise its going to all sink to the bottom because the particles are fairly large.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

Sounds like you know about as much as the rest of us about bentonite. Hydrate it in just enough water to make a slurry and pitch it in. I've used it once and a couple other guys around here have used it a bit but it seems uncommon, works well though.

You could always search...

 

[Lil' Sparky]

I use it in making wine all the time, but I've never tried it with beer. I usually use whirlflock during the last 10 mins of the boil.

When I use it in wine, for 1 gal batches, I use 1 tsp of bentonite and make a slurry with a little wine, maybe 1/2 cup. Whip it up really good, let it sit, whip it some more, let it sit, whip it some more, and then mix it in really good with the rest of the wine. Within 12-24 hours it's so clear that it doesn't even look like the same wine anymore.

I don't really know how much you should use for beer, but I would think no more than 2-3 tsp for a 5-6 gal batch. A little goes a long way, and you don't want to strip out too much from your beer. Wine HAS to be clear, beer doesn't.

If you try it, let us know how it turns out.

Cheers!

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

With all due respect, you don't want to be whipping up any of your wort ar really any water that you are going to be putting in it once past the primary fermentation stage. You should boil the water first and then make the slurry as gently as possible. Oxygen is beer's worst enemy.

Cheers.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

I know what you're saying, but you can't make a bentonite slurry "gently". It's really just clay and you gotta whip it! If you don't it'll all just fall right to the bottom without doing any good.

The oxidation issue is the same for wine, maybe even more important. But with such a small amount that you're using, it doesn't have an impact. 1/2 - 1 cup will de-gas pretty quickly, and then you just need to "mix" that in with the whole batch good without aerating the batch.

In reality, I don't see any reason why you can't mix the slurry and add it as your batch goes into the primary (some wine kit have you do exactly that). The movement of the beer as it ferments would only help to mix it in well, and you want it well aerated before fermentation anyway.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

I just realized you were making cider. In that case, I know it works just as I stated. You may want to add some pectic enzyme, too. Fruit has a lot of pectin in it that's almost impossible to clear without the enzyme - you'll have a lot of sediment, but it'll stay hazy. Add a couple of tsp to the slurry when you whip it up if you haven't already used any.

 

[psymn]

I would also recommed adding pectinase to the mix. Actually, I would add the pectinase 1st and wait at least a day or two before adding the bentonite. This will give the enzymes unhindered access to the pectin in your cider. Then when you add the bentonite, it will pull the enzymes out.

I work with bentonite in my lab and the best way to mix a slurry is by slowly adding it into a water with constant stirring. I realize that most homebrewers don't have magnetic stir plates, so just stir and add it pinch by pinch. If you add it too fast, you'll end up with clumps of mud sticking to the side of your mixing vessel. Bentonite is clay and clay + water = mud. However, if you get a decent slurry, I wouldn't worry about a few clumps of clay, they'll settle to the bottom quickly.

Matt

 

[Levers101]

I'm dealing with cider right now. I don't know if it is more or less sensitive to oxygen... I don't plan on fining my beer when I make it. I don't even know if I need to clear up my cider, but I'd kind of like it to be somewhat clearer before I bottle it. Hhaving only one carboy, its gonna get bottled in about two weeks clear or not.

I added pectinase at the rate of 1/2 teaspoon per gallon before I pitched my yeast. So I'm guessing that the cloudyness I have is not due to pectin, unless there is something that is inactivating the pectinase.

There is really no way to get around mixing bentonite in your carboy, as it'll be pretty much useless if you don't. That is because the rate of aggregation between particles is governed by the amount of mixing. There is some contribution due to Brownian motion or so called "random walk", but it is fairly small for the 10 micrometer sized yeasts. The purpose of adding bentonite into the cider/wine is to both destabilize the yeast and other particles and to get them to stick together and to the bentonite particles creating bigger "floc" particles that will settle to the bottom of the carboy.

Maybe I don't even need to add the bentonite, its really more of an experiment to see if I can apply what I have learned in classes to my brewing. I was just making sure to see if I should rehydrate it and then throw it in, or just throw it in.

I didn't think about the oxygenation issue. But unless I leave the carboy open for a long time, not much oxygen is going to transfer into the cider. Also, if I only add like 100 mL of water/bentonite slurry, I'm only going to be adding 1 mg or so of oxygen, really not enough for me to worry about especially if I dump and restopper my carboy quickly.

 

[Levers101]

Anyone know since I've added bentonite to clarify if I will still be able to bottle carbonate if I want to? Though I'm not convinced that I really want to carbonate my cider considering how dry it is.

My Pale Ale is slowing down in the primary and I want to have the secondary ready for it when the time comes.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

Yes, you will still be able to bottle condition. I have one in wich I used bentonite bottled now and it's carbonating fine.