Beni-Koji. Red Yeast Rice. Old School... like really really Old School

[TheDemonSlick]

 

[TheDemonSlick]

Always always more to Learn... According to this. Monascus is Yeast!
Wait, What?
http://www.biyotekder.hacettepe.edu.tr/f.pdf

 

[Tantalus]

Looks awesome. Definitely considering doing this project during the summer, so I'm interested to see what the best method is (filtering, secondary fermentation, etc.) to get a good final product. Subscribed.

 

[trbig]

Always always more to Learn... According to this. Monascus is Yeast!
Wait, What?
http://www.biyotekder.hacettepe.edu.tr/f.pdf

Has anyone tried making the wine from just RYR and not adding any additional yeast?

 

[TheDemonSlick]

I have an experimental corn and ryr ferment going, with added bakers yeast, took off like a rocket then stopped in about 12 hours. Like, completely stopped. After 2 days of nothing, the airlock started up again, but slowly, very slowly... I have some time off Friday, so I plan on putting down another batch of Rice. I haven't made up my mind yet if I'll use ryr or the winecakes. I pasteurized mine last night, so that batch is over. Got about a gallon and a half of cleared, filtered, pasteurized red wine. It's good, but might neeed some backsweetining, not sour but very dry and tart. Very boozy.

 

[pdxal]

Always always more to Learn... According to this. Monascus is Yeast!
Wait, What?
http://www.biyotekder.hacettepe.edu.tr/f.pdf

I think that is why they call it red YEAST rice.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

I think that is why they call it red YEAST rice.

Well if you knew that already, why did you wait so long to enlighten us? There are many inexact translations between the 2 languages. I don't think somebody buying asian ingredients they are not familiar with should take anything for granted. I read about 30 articles on monascus before I found one describing it as a strain of yeast. Anyways, now I know..

 

[Leadgolem]

Has anyone tried making the wine from just RYR and not adding any additional yeast?

I'll start a small batch that way this next weekend, or maybe tomorrow night.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

Corn/ryr/bakers yeast airlock activity is picking up again, so that's good. I'm off Friday, I'm leaning towards a bucket of ryr and rice only, because I have all that, just takes so long to steam all that rice. I have some other brew to get finalized, see how much time I get.

 

[Leadgolem]

Ok. I setup 4 more experimental batches.

RYR with jasmine rice.
RYR with jasmine rice, and distillers yeast.
RYR with Extra Long Grain rice.
RYR with Extra Long Grain rice, and distillers yeast.

All of the rice was cooked the same way as the last set of experiments. The rice was soaked for an hour, and then rinsed. Cooked in a rice cooker with a 1:1 ratio of water to rice. 1 1/2 cups of dried rice to a jar. Each batch got 3 tablespoons of crushed red yeast rice. The ones with yeast also got 1/2 tsp of dry yeast.

The rice was cooled, then broken up in food grade buckets and the RYR and dry yeast sprinkled over them. Then the whole thing was tossed until everything was thoroughly coated.

I hope to learn three things from this experiment. First, if an additional type of yeast is needed when making red rice wine. Second, if the enzymatic action of the red rice yeast is adequate to break down the long chain carbohydrates from the Extra Long Grain rice. Finally, if the enzymes produced by the RYR really do result in a more complete breakdown of the rice then the mold from the rice yeast balls.

I also have another batch with jasmine rice that was made with rice yeast balls I made on Monday. It won't be a perfect comparison, but it should provide a good point of reference for the rice breakdown.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

You GO Lead Golem! I took off from work for a bit tonight and grabbed some wine cakes or JhiQhu or whatever they are in Chinatown. If I get time tomorrow I plan on doing 2 big batches, 10lbs rice each, same rice as before...one white (rice, water, JhiQhu) and one red (rice, water, ryr). If yours doesn't start to ferment I can always add another type of yeast to the ryr one. I just hate to waste a big batch. It's a lot of work to rinse and steam 20lbs of Rice!

 

[Leadgolem]

You GO Lead Golem! I took off from work for a bit tonight and grabbed some wine cakes or JhiQhu or whatever they are in Chinatown. If I get time tomorrow I plan on doing 2 big batches, 10lbs rice each, same rice as before...one white (rice, water, JhiQhu) and one red (rice, water, ryr). If yours doesn't start to ferment I can always add another type of yeast to the ryr one. I just hate to waste a big batch. It's a lot of work to rinse and steam 20lbs of Rice!

No joke. That's why I'm running all these experiments in the quart jars. I want to get things dialed in before I go to the work of making a big batch.

I wanted to get something done before another 12 hour shift tomorrow. It's odd, working 8 hours almost seems like playing hooky.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

In my (ahem) other thingy, I'm trying substituting Chinese yeast cakes instead of bakers yeast with my 5 gallon sugar wash... 10lbs sugar, Chinese yeast cake, 12oz Gerber Barley instant baby food. The baggie is the yeast cake after I bashed it with the round side of a ladle.

 

[edds5p0]

In my (ahem) other thingy, I'm trying substituting Chinese yeast cakes instead of bakers yeast with my 5 gallon sugar wash... 10lbs sugar, Chinese yeast cake, 12oz Gerber Barley instant baby food. The baggie is the yeast cake after I bashed it with the round side of a ladle.

Wow, you're trying all kinds of things out.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

The yeast in the yeast cake doesn't seem to like the high percentage sugar solution. I added 2 crushed balls at 100F, after 3 hours, nothing. Added 2 more at 80F, went to bed, this morning, nothing. At noon today I threw in 8.75 grams bakers yeast, dry, right from the package...wash was at 74F, by 2pm it was bubbling like crazy. Corn/ryr/bakers yeast still bubbling but it's gotten real slow again.

 

[TBBrewer]

Very interesting thread! Sub'd

 

[Leadgolem]

Here they are for their one week checkup. All of the batches are much more visibly red then they were last week.

RYR with jasmine rice: Visible white mold all over the rice. Visible decrease in starch mass and visible liquid mixed with the rice. Strong yeast smell.
RYR with jasmine rice, and distillers yeast: No visible mold, no visible liquid. Mild yeast smell.
RYR with Extra Long Grain rice: Visible white mold all over the rice. Visible liquid in the bottom inch of rice. Moderate yeast smell.
RYR with Extra Long Grain rice, and distillers yeast: No visible mold, visible liquid in the bottom inch of rice. Mild yeast and raisin smell.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

I'll take door number 4! My corn is stalled... smells good but it's stopped. I ordered some of that korean enzyme from H mart, depending when it gets here I might try stirring some of that in. Maybe a rice, ryr, nuruk batch... we'll see what's in the house when I get brewing. That Korean stuff was like 3 days to ferment out completely, so that's kind of exciting.

 

[Leadgolem]

I'll take door number 4! My corn is stalled... smells good but it's stopped. I ordered some of that korean enzyme from H mart, depending when it gets here I might try stirring some of that in. Maybe a rice, ryr, nuruk batch... we'll see what's in the house when I get brewing. That Korean stuff was like 3 days to ferment out completely, so that's kind of exciting.

Yeah, I read that too. To be honest though, that seems a little fast to be believable. Maybe it's got an alcohol content, the enzyme could have finished in 3 days sure. It's just that I've never seen a batch of anything hit the teens in ABV in three days. Warm ferments with aggressive yeast strains and high pitch rates are usually more like 8. Five at the least. I guess it's possible, but it seems more likely to me that what the poster had was a very sweet partially fermented liquid.

Got any pictures of the batch Slick? Why do you think it's stalled?

EDIT: I do find it odd that the best aroma right now is coming from the jar with the long grain rice and distillers yeast.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

I dunno why it's stalled, and I'm kind of scared to open it... It took off like a shot right away, died by noon the next day, then after 2 days it bubbled slowly for 2 days, now it's just stopped. 3 days now. I'm kind of hoping the monascus has an "aha" moment or something... When I do open it, I'll post a pic, eventually I have to look. I'm skeptical about the korean stuff too, but if monascus doesn't like corn, maybe nuruk will. I hate to just dump the bucket behind the garage. Cost me ten bucks!
Edit- I know I can get it bubbling with sugar, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

 

[ultravista]

subscribing

 

[TheDemonSlick]

Holy Crap, I ordered this weds night and it got here fri afternoon! If the Koreans brew like they ship, maybe it can do it in 3 days.
Edit to add the link I used to order the nuruk from Hmart:
http://www.hmart.com/shopnow/shopnow_newsearch.asp?keyword=powderedenzymeamylase

 

[TheDemonSlick]

1 pound of nuruk, in. Took before pics for you LeadGolem, I had it open. Smells good, like corn, mild booze smell but very faint... been in there since Easter Sunday. Stirred it in real good with my paddle, then capped. Just fyi, big gap of liquid between the cap and the corn on the bottom. Fingers crossed.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

I'm kind of a nut about knowing what I'm putting into me, so, this is what we're dealing with. It's a little nerdy, but informative.
http://www.ksabc.or.kr/admin/contribute/journal/kpaper/JKSABC_54_6_933-943.pdf

 

[TBBrewer]

I'm kind of a nut about knowing what I'm putting into me, so, this is what we're dealing with. It's a little nerdy, but informative.
http://www.ksabc.or.kr/admin/contribute/journal/kpaper/JKSABC_54_6_933-943.pdf

Looks like a good read. Will dive in this weekend.

So, you tossed the nuruk on top of your corn experiment? Let us know how it went. I put 1lb in 6lbs of rice and it liquified it in 2 days.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

Well yeah, but I mixed n it real good, I didn't just leave it like that. Lots of corn at the bottom.

 

[TBBrewer]

Was there any yeast in there other than the Chinese yeast balls.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

Originally it was corn, water, bakers yeast and red yeast rice (monascus). I'm chasing amylase enzymes... malting sucks. There was no chinese yeastcake with the corn one. If you go back you can follow it. I have a couple things going, a Gerber sugar wash I tried with the chinese winecakes and then aded bakers yeast when it failed to bubble, and this corn thingy. More rice this weekend (next 3 days, when I feel like it). I already have everything in the house. Might try a ryr/nuruk rice brew... still drinkin/smokin/playin ME3 and rolling it around in my head.

 

[Leadgolem]

1 pound of nuruk, in. Took before pics for you LeadGolem, I had it open. Smells good, like corn, mild booze smell but very faint... been in there since Easter Sunday. Stirred it in real good with my paddle, then capped. Just fyi, big gap of liquid between the cap and the corn on the bottom. Fingers crossed.

Thank you slick. For some reason my mind always works better when I've got pictures.

EDIT: Not sure when I'm going to have time to read that file, I've been working 50+ a week for a while now.

 

[TheDemonSlick]

Pics or it didn't happen! Waaaaaahhhh!!!