Several years ago I visited the taproom at White Labs. You could order flights of their test batches. I ordered 3 or 4 versions of a Hefe, all same recipe except different yeasts. The variation between the beers was remarkable.
Benefits of Liquid vs Dry Yeast
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Several years ago I visited the taproom at White Labs. You could order flights of their test batches. I ordered 3 or 4 versions of a Hefe, all same recipe except different yeasts. The variation between the beers was remarkable.
When I started brewing almost 25 years ago dry yeast came in a little unmarked white packet tucked under carboard lids that were placed on top of cans of extract. And the first thing we did was throw them away. Dry yeast back then was notorious for producing bad and infected beers.
Dry yeast today has come a long way. But like others said, I pretty much got into the game using liquid yeast from go, and I mostly still do.
I recently tried a dry yeast called Verdant for a bitter and I wound up with an infection that carried over for a few beers. I can’t say 100% it was just the yeast but after I cleaned everything up with iodophor I brewed another bitter with Pub and had zero issues. I’m still not a fan of dry yeast.
The one exception I found is Safale 34/70. My club did a presentation on warm fermenting lagers in primary with 34/70. I did that and really liked the results. I will probably use 34/70 again but I’m not in any rush to run out and start trying all the dry yeasts.
There also must be something to liquid yeasts if several new liquid yeast companies popped up in recent years. It used to be just Wyeast and White Labs. Now we have Imperial, Omega and I’m probably forgetting somebody.
Dry yeast today has come a long way. But like others said, I pretty much got into the game using liquid yeast from go, and I mostly still do.
I recently tried a dry yeast called Verdant for a bitter and I wound up with an infection that carried over for a few beers. I can’t say 100% it was just the yeast but after I cleaned everything up with iodophor I brewed another bitter with Pub and had zero issues. I’m still not a fan of dry yeast.
The one exception I found is Safale 34/70. My club did a presentation on warm fermenting lagers in primary with 34/70. I did that and really liked the results. I will probably use 34/70 again but I’m not in any rush to run out and start trying all the dry yeasts.
There also must be something to liquid yeasts if several new liquid yeast companies popped up in recent years. It used to be just Wyeast and White Labs. Now we have Imperial, Omega and I’m probably forgetting somebody.
Maybe a little clarification is in order. This is correct, your results can be award-winning down the road after a couple harvests. I don't harvest, I use yeast 1 time. There's nothing wrong with harvesting, I just never got in the habit; too much work for me.
LostHopper
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When I heard Mitch Steele (New Realm) on a podcast talk about how much they use dry yeast for their ales I haven't given it much thought except for saisons.
You really don’t have to do anything special to harvest or re-use yeast. Its really as simple as brewing your second beer when the first one is ready to transfer and then putting your second beer on top of the yeast from the first beer.
It does require beers to be brewed a week or 10 days or so apart. And take recipes into account, do similar beers. In progession you can do for example: blonde ale, APA, IPA, barleywine - 4 beers off the same yeast in order. Or I’ve done Light Scottish, Red Ale, Amber Ale, IPA. If you want to go British you can do bitter, Mild, Pale Ale, English IPA, then Barleywine. I will not re-use yeast anymore after barleywine. Its whatever you can think of. The idea is just not to have one beer carry over anything that doesn’t belong into the next beer.
Yep, planning and scheduling. Life gets in the way (and I usually do no-chill, which would kill the existing yeast cake). I could put it in a different fermenter, then in a day or so keg the other beer, then transfer the wort onto the yeast cake, but not worth it to me. Besides, it might be months between brewing sometimes.
As a long time liquid yeast brewer, I have been digging into dry yeast quite a bit over the past year and a half. I am really impressed with the quality and variety of dry yeasts available these days. I have won a few medals with first pitch dry yeast batches. I usually have plenty of grains and hops in stock for a brew day. It is just so much easier to stock up on a dozen packs of dry yeast, vs messing with starters or special trips to the store to get a pack of liquid yeast. (I do often harvest and reuse yeast, but that is not without cost and effort.)
WLP530 (Belgian) and WLP565 (Saison) are the only liquid yeasts that I recall using since early 2021. Lallemand is making some really nice yeasts these days (Verdant, Abbaye, Voss, Philly Sour, etc.). I have not quite figured out if there is a dry yeast for APAs and IPAs that I like better than US-05.
A decade or two ago, there were very few dry yeasts and the quality was poor. These days both dry and liquid yeast are great options.
WLP530 (Belgian) and WLP565 (Saison) are the only liquid yeasts that I recall using since early 2021. Lallemand is making some really nice yeasts these days (Verdant, Abbaye, Voss, Philly Sour, etc.). I have not quite figured out if there is a dry yeast for APAs and IPAs that I like better than US-05.
A decade or two ago, there were very few dry yeasts and the quality was poor. These days both dry and liquid yeast are great options.
I'm sure there are dozens of dry yeasts I haven't even heard of, so I resort to liquid still in some cases. When I started, I had access to Nottingham, Windsor, US05, and WB06. Not saying that was all there was back then, but that's all my local LHBS had, so whenever I wanted to make sure beer was it's best, I resorted to liquid. Now that life is back under control, I need to research dry yeasts again and catch up.
MPLS_Brewing
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This is a very nice table. Thanks!
MPLS_Brewing
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Intuitively, I would agree. I have yet to run this experiment for myself. How does temperature affect the yeast flavor profile? Is there a common trend (e.g. warmer=more flavor) or does it depend on each yeast strain?
VikeMan
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In general, higher temperatures tend to produce more esters and fusel alcohols.
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It is yeast strain dependent but a general rule of thumb is warmer = more fruity esters. In hoppy beers, cooler ferments tend to hold on to more hop aroma and limit fusel alcohol production. In a few experiments I've performed, five degrees F is enough to make two different beers.
What Vikeman said basically.
It does depend very much on the particular strain. People say the yeast produces more flavors at higher temperatures, but in many cases, the opposite is true also -- lower temperatures can induce stresses in the yeast that induce more esters, also sulfur, diacetyl, etc. I've also found several yeasts to perform extremely cleanly at room temperature or above. So.... I'd hate to generalize. It really is specific to the yeast strain and particular parameters of the batch.
mashpaddled
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I'm not a dry yeast hater but the strains I tend to buy aren't available dry or I trust the labs I've bought to not venture out of the liquid strains I know do what I need. The world of dry yeast is larger than it used to be and I wouldn't discourage anybody from buying good dry yeast. I'm a fan of repitching so I keep several strains in liquid form in the fridge so even my dry yeast purchases have become liquid yeast cultures.
Alan Reginato
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The big issue in forums is that people always tries to justify their expensive equipament and time consuming process saying that anything else is garbage.
Liquid yeast is just incomparable in variety.
But you need to make a starter (some people like the process), have shorter shelf live (if you're near a big distributor, isn't a real problem), is more expensive (you could save from previous batch) and completely out of range for some locations (no solution here).
That's it.
Liquid yeast is just incomparable in variety.
But you need to make a starter (some people like the process), have shorter shelf live (if you're near a big distributor, isn't a real problem), is more expensive (you could save from previous batch) and completely out of range for some locations (no solution here).
That's it.
Plenty of anecdotal evidence on this site of people having success with Verdant. I'd put that low on the list of causes of an infection unless the package was breached. In any event I'd call it to the attention of Lallemand in case they have a batch with issues.
It came highly recommended by guys in one of the long British ale discussions. It was my first time using it and first time using dry yeast for beer in a long time. I use dry yeast for mead and the occasional wine kit. I didn’t do anything different with Verdant than I did with Pub. I have another pack to use. I bought them together so they may be from the same batch. I also have a dry London Ale to try at some point.
Yea definitely if you have a pack from the same lot I'd get in touch with Lallemand. FWIW I just used Verdant based on the same British Ale discussions and was very happy with the results.
I've also used it so many times.... Always reliable, there must have been something wrong with these packages or something else. My bet is, it was something else.
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Just gonna jump in here and say the light white wine, or vinous esters, from GigaYeast 021, makes the perfect Kolsch.
Keep in mind that this is just one person's opinion, YMMV, it's a matter of taste (for instance I hate Lima beans but that's another story kids).
Used to pay my sister to eat my lima beans - don't touch them at alll
To add a little more to this thread, one thing I share with everyone is to keep a neutral dry yeast handy in case something happens during the brew day or fermenting and your main yeast doesn't work. I keep a couple packets in the fridge just in case. I date them and rotate them out so I have fresh stuff handy should I need it. Also for the Kolsch brewers the Wyeast Private Collection, 2575 has great results. It's available now and comes out every three years or so. Brewing a Kolsch with this yeast and Schill Kolsch grain is my brewery favorite.
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