Below 40% Effeciency... Would my blunders justify it?

[DustinHickey]

Hmm. Ok. were down to calibration. I will definatly check them tonight. Again, thanks for everyone's help. I really appreciate it. Anyone eleses opinions are welcome.

I will post what was wrong when I figure this out.

 

[Synovia]

I think you screwed up big time on the sparge. You need to sparge at a higher temperature for a longer period of time. You should sparge at 175F for 10 minutes. That might make the difference between 40% and 65%

People cold sparge and still get good efficiency.



Did you adjust the hydrometer for temp? 1.020 @ 145' is probably somewhere like 1.045 @ 60'

 

[ajf]

I live on the Island, and I don't think pH would be a problem. The malts you used should be fine with my water (pH wise), but I always add some Gypsum and or CaCl2 to increase the calcium and sulfate levels, and balance the sulfates with the chloride.
In your description of the process however, there appear to be a few steps missing.

You didn't mention a boil. I assume you did boil, and took the gravity reading after the boil.
Did you top off with water after the boil? If so, your gravity reading could be the gravity of the top off water rather than the wort as a whole unless it was really well mixed.
When you added the sparge water, I didn't see any mention of stirring. Except when fly sparging, you should always stir the water in well, as it is the stirring that extracts the sugars.
You also didn't mention draining off the initial runnings before adding the sparge water. This will help with efficiency, as a lot of sugars will be removed from the grain in those initial runnings, so the sparge water won't have to dissolve as much.

Hope this helps.

-a.


You added 8g water (4.5 + 3.5). That should get you about 6.3g.

I assume you boiled, but did you check the gravity before or after the boil? If before the boil

 

[DustinHickey]

Yup Synovia, took a reading at 60 and still only had 1.020.

Thanks for the Input AJF. I took a gravity reading before and after the boil. Before it was 1.020. After was 1.030 because I was trying to boil off as much as possible. I did not add any water after mashing and sparging because I was brewing a 5 gal batch and extracted 6 gal or so from the mash / sparge to calculate loss of 1 gal during boil. I did stir during sparge and I did drain before sparging.

After all input from everyone the only thing I can think of is that my Thermometers are either way off or my hydrometer has not been calibrated. ( Ps. how do you calibrate a hydrmomter? ) guessing you just adjust for the difference?

 

[scinerd3000]

After all input from everyone the only thing I can think of is that my Thermometers are either way off or my hydrometer has not been calibrated. ( Ps. how do you calibrate a hydrmomter? ) guessing you just adjust for the difference?

just make sure it reads 1.000 in water at whatever temperature is written on there. If its off you just get a new one or adjust for the difference. Technically it should be distilled water i dont think it makes much difference

 

[DustinHickey]

Thanks man. Ok

 

[DustinHickey]

So I checked my Thermometer and Hydrometer... They ok... I had no other choice than to open up the spent grain and take a look to confirm the crush... There were indeed whole grains still present along with some broken ones. I am assuming that here lies my problem. I saw the guy at the store put them through a mechanical grinder that did not look like a roller style mill. Since they were a brew store and must serve others when it comes to milling, I assumed they would have done the right thing. Anyway, Ive ordered a barely crusher and will try again this weekend and re-post my results. It is the only possible cause left to reach such a low yeild. I want to thank everyone for their help.

Thanks again,
Dustin Hickey

 

[Bobby_M]

It should look like this:

Question. Did you drain the tun prior to the sparge? Did you stir really well after adding the sparge?

Another curious thing is that with that much grain, your first runnings would be about 1.5 gallons. With a 3.5 gallon sparge, your total preboil volume would be about 5 gallons. That's not quite enough for a 5 gallon batch. You should start with about 6.5 gallons.

 

[Reelale]

Wow, the lhbs must have "wished" them through their grinder. I'm sure you'll be golden once you crush your own. Good luck on ur next brew.

 

[DustinHickey]

Thanks for the pic man.. Yea it didn't quite look so good. Yea we drained before we sparged. Yea, I may have been wrong on the water levels. I was at work when I started the thread. I think it was 4.5 gal mash and 4.6 sparge. I'm gona try stirring a lot more too. I think it was the horrible crush from the mill plus all the little things I did wrong that combined to form a huge 25% efficiency mash blunder. hehe. Again thanks for all your help guys. The grain mill was not your typical roller type. It was some crazy electirc grinder with a metal receptical box. I don't know how they have it at a brew shop. I just cant wait to try again to confirm what my problem is. It was driving me crazy not knowing how I could have gone wrong after so much reading.

 

[jjl04002]

Did you make sure you stirred up the wort really well after sparging but before taking the gravity? Almost everytime I take a gravity, I forget to stir and always get a gravity in the 20s or 30s, even on an imperial IPA I made last week. After stirring the gravity went from 1.030 or so to 1.080 since all the good stuff settles on the bottom.

 

[DustinHickey]

We stirred it as well as we could trying not to oxidate it while it was over 80 degrees and set a sample aside. then stirred again without seeing much improvement.

 

[LVBen]

People cold sparge and still get good efficiency.

They don't cold sparge for 5 minutes... but obviously he (or the LHBS guy) screwed something else up also. 20% efficiency means that the mash was f-ed up.

 

[smitty2324]

I'll stand up for Rebel Brewer here. I get all of my grain from there and always get 70%+ efficiency. My efficiency went way up when I started using them.

 

[phatuna]

I'll stand up for Rebel Brewer here. I get all of my grain from there and always get 70%+ efficiency. My efficiency went way up when I started using them.

The OP got his grain at Rebel, but crushed the grain at his LHBS.

Good luck OP on your brew this weekend, I have high hopes since you will use your own mill.

You should post what kind of mill you got so we can help you dial it in. They typically have settings, error on the finer side of the crush. You should see NO whole kernals and a LOT of powder.

 

[Dropkick_molly]

What store did you get the grain from? I live on LI and have been debating about buing grain from a local shop. I usually get it crushed online. I assume you got it from Arbor right?

 

[shlap]

How did you take the OG reading? If you drained everything into the brew pot and just took a reading from the top without sirring everything, you'll see a very low OG reading; happened to me once and I freaked out until I realized what happened.

 

[sagnew440]

I usually take a gravity reading of each individual running, then one right before i pitch the yeast.

 

[sagnew440]

I usually take a gravity reading of each individual running, then one right before i pitch the yeast. I've been fwhing lately so my first runnings are normally close to boiling when i'm at fully volume.

 

[Synovia]

They don't cold sparge for 5 minutes... but obviously he (or the LHBS guy) screwed something else up also. 20% efficiency means that the mash was f-ed up.

Um, a lot of them batch sparge, and 5 minutes isn't out of the question for that.


If hes in the 20%, its not the sparge. Hes not getting conversion.

 

[iamopie2]

I bought the grain at Rebel Brewer.com. Checked the grain analysis sheets too. I thought it looked good.

For what it is worth, I have been using rebel brewer since they opened and I have had zero complaints about anything they do. He still uses a barley crusher like most homebrewers use. I have always had him crush it, and it is a perfect crush. So I can say with certainty that it is not the grain. (i know you had a LHBS do the crush for you but next time have him do it, its nice to have it come crushed.)

 

[DustinHickey]

Hey everyone, I brewed again after buying a barley crusher and crushing the grain myself. It was indeed the crush of the grain. I went up to about 65 percent. Im still gona try and get it a bit higher but atleast can make a descent beer now. Can't belive the brew store would have had such a bad grain mill.. Anyway, thanks for everyones help.

-Dustin Hickey