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American IPA Bell's Two Hearted Ale Clone (close as they come)

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I saw your beer picture and I don't think it's a question of changing from C20 to C10. That's not going to change the color too much. Yours looks like a brown ale. It's probably not as dark in real life but I've seen this in IPAs before. It was getting pretty old (3 months according to your post) and oxidation can cause it to darken over time. Was it that dark when it was younger?

yes, I believe it was basically the same. I don't think it changed much, if any over time.

I'll brew it again and see what happens.

I also brewed a Kona Pale Ale and my version was much darker. TBH, I much preferred my version vs the commercial version. Felt mine had more flavor even though it was darker.
 
I have s05 and nottingham. I have made this beer 5+ times with s05 and I like it a lot. should I stick with it or switch to notty? I don't have bells where I am and I don't have wlp051 on hand. Thanks
 
I've made it twice per the original recipe. Fantastic, and a very close clone. Going to do a side by side this week.
 
I have s05 and nottingham. I have made this beer 5+ times with s05 and I like it a lot. should I stick with it or switch to notty? I don't have bells where I am and I don't have wlp051 on hand. Thanks

I'd stick with the 05 if you like it. I haven't been all that thrilled with the last couple nottingham beers I've made (not this recipe). I ferment in a swamp cooler and my basement is cold this time of year. The beer isn't going above the mid 60s so I know it's not from fermenting too hot. I just think notty is more well suited for english styles and darker beers. I make edwort's robust porter with it and it's one of the best beers I make. It just has this estery component that messes with APA/IPA styles. I get this really subtle dark cherry taste from it. It doesn't go well with certain beers. People say it's clean and I agree to some extent but it's not as clean as US-05.

Of course this is just my taste buds talking. You may find it great. WLP051 or Wyeast 1272 makes the best representation of this beer IMO. I just did it with 051 and it's night and day from using US-05. The sample I took to measure FG was so smooth and hoppy compared to my last batch with 05. The 05 batch was a really good beer too so I'm excited to try this after dry hopping in the keg.
 
I have a batch with s05 bubbling away now, hit 1.064. I am going to order some 1272 tomorow. Thanks
 
I second using the 1272 instead. The S-05 tastes great too, but the 1272 puts it on another level. At least to me anyway. Even the friends and family that tried both versions mentioned how my latest batch was the best tasting one yet (I didn't tell them that i used different yeast)
 
I've made this one time using Notty and I was not satisfied. Problem is I never had Bells before so don't have anything to compare it to. When I use dry yeast, it's usually US-05 so that's probably what I will stick with.
 
The Bell's yeast is less flocculent than 05, which drops crystal clear. I'm not sure if it provides additional flavor elements because it's hard to taste anything else but those Centennial hops.
 
I have a batch with s05 bubbling away now, hit 1.064. I am going to order some 1272 tomorow. Thanks

You'll be pleased. I took some yeast from Bell's Oberon over the summer and let it sit for so long that I'm afraid to use it. I had another sample of US-05 in a large container that started to get mold on top. I figured I'd just start from the beginning. I need to get my yeast skills to be a little better. I've harvested this batch of yeast with some good sanitation precautions so I'm working on my house version of this yeast now. Look out Bell's.

For information purposes. WL051 or WY1272 is originally from Anchor brewing in San Francisco. Bell's has used it as a house yeast for many years and it has mutated into their house strain. You can collect it from most of their beers but I suggest to do it from Oberon since it has a crapload of yeast in the bottle. Two hearted will give you way less since their huge dry hop in the tanks drop a lot of yeast out. It's higher alcohol too which doesn't bode well for the yeast that's left.
 
The Bell's yeast is less flocculent than 05, which drops crystal clear. I'm not sure if it provides additional flavor elements because it's hard to taste anything else but those Centennial hops.
''

You're right on with this. 05 is very flocculent as opposed to 051/1272. Here's what I do. Cold crash for at least 4 days in the mid 30s farenheit (so the metric guys aren't confused). Do the gelatin method. 1/2 teaspoon unflavored gelatin in 1/2 cup water. Let it bloom. It will become a semi-clear muck. Microwave it in 15 second intervals stirring in between. When it's clear and about 125F (4 or 5 15 second bursts) then dump it in your cold fermenter. Two days later take a corny keg, put 2 oz of centennial in a fine mesh hop bag and throw it in the bottom. Rack the beer on top. Seal, purge with CO2 and let it warm up and sit for a week on gas. Put it in the kegerator afterwards and enjoy.
 
I've made it twice per the original recipe. Fantastic, and a very close clone. Going to do a side by side this week.


Did the side by side:
Color is very close. Mine is slightly lighter but if they weren't side by side you wouldn't notice.
Smell, taste and bitterness is very close. Mine is slightly hoppier on all fronts.

It's two hearted, just a little soupped up. This will be in my regular rotation.
 
This was my first AG brew and I love it - very hard to distinguish from the commercial. Great simple recipe - have brewed it twice in my short brewing career and going to do it again maybe this weekend...
 
Did the side by side:
Color is very close. Mine is slightly lighter but if they weren't side by side you wouldn't notice.
Smell, taste and bitterness is very close. Mine is slightly hoppier on all fronts.

It's two hearted, just a little soupped up. This will be in my regular rotation.

I've wondered for years about this, since I live here in Michigan, and 2HA is my favorite beer, so if I don't have THIS on tap, I'm drinking the "real stuff."

I've just wondered if that "soupped up-ness" is just that no matter how fresh we might get from the brewery, or close to the distributor, our homwbrewed version is just going to be FRESHER, than the commercial. That brightness is just that our hasn't started to loose some of the bite, that all IPAs start to lose eventually. Just a thought.
 
I've wondered for years about this, since I live here in Michigan, and 2HA is my favorite beer, so if I don't have THIS on tap, I'm drinking the "real stuff."

I've just wondered if that "soupped up-ness" is just that no matter how fresh we might get from the brewery, or close to the distributor, our homwbrewed version is just going to be FRESHER, than the commercial. That brightness is just that our hasn't started to loose some of the bite, that all IPAs start to lose eventually. Just a thought.

I spend a lot of time in MI. A good amount of time has been spent drinking the ol Two Hearted out of cans and bottles.

I just did a clone that called for 12lbs 2 row, 1lb C10, 1oz60, 1@15, 1@5, 1@dry hop.

I used avangard pale ale malt as the base. Ended the FG 1.011 and OG 1.063. Pretty close.

The recipe I did needs more malt flavor for sure. More hops as well. I may give this recipe a try as the vienna may be what it needs.

I also used US-05.
 
I've wondered for years about this, since I live here in Michigan, and 2HA is my favorite beer, so if I don't have THIS on tap, I'm drinking the "real stuff."

I've just wondered if that "soupped up-ness" is just that no matter how fresh we might get from the brewery, or close to the distributor, our homwbrewed version is just going to be FRESHER, than the commercial. That brightness is just that our hasn't started to loose some of the bite, that all IPAs start to lose eventually. Just a thought.

I've always thought about this as well regarding my homebrews and even my wife has said she just thinks my homebrews taste fresher than commercial craft beers.
 
Has anybody had any success culturing from a bottle of two hearted? I know it's not the best candidate because of the higher ABV, but I have a bottle of this and the porter in the fridge right now. I figure if I combine the two and step up something good should happen.
 
Yes. If you look back a few pages to around Nov you'll see where I posted about it. It turned out very well.
 
Got bored and did the dead ringer grain bill/hop bill from NB yesterday. Big fan of 2 hearted and had a bunch of centennial hops to use so why not? I'm not a huge advocate of adding caramel malts (especially over 5%) but I have high hopes if it's anything like 2 hearted! I did however use Conan to ferment ��
 
Do most of yall that have brewed this really keep it in primary fermenter for four weeks as the OP recommends? I kegged this after 2 weeks primary plus a few days cold crashing, and now that it's nice and carbonated it tastes great but definitely still has a bit of "yeasty" aroma/flavor. Wondering if I should have let it go a bit longer, or how long I should abstain from the tap until it improves. Have always heard IPA's should be drank "fresh", so I guess I'm wondering where the sweet spot is. Used nottingham, btw.
 
Do most of yall that have brewed this really keep it in primary fermenter for four weeks as the OP recommends? I kegged this after 2 weeks primary plus a few days cold crashing, and now that it's nice and carbonated it tastes great but definitely still has a bit of "yeasty" aroma/flavor. Wondering if I should have let it go a bit longer, or how long I should abstain from the tap until it improves. Have always heard IPA's should be drank "fresh", so I guess I'm wondering where the sweet spot is. Used nottingham, btw.

Yes, you should have given it more time.... you kinda proved it for yourself.....it's "yeasty" because you didn't give it time to condition, for the yeast to clean up and then flocculate out.

The "ipas should always be drunk fresh" thing is one of those chestnuts that noobs and others repeat without thinking too deeply about, and oversimplify, without applying any modicum of common sense to. And keep perpetuating over and over and over.

It simply means that ipas aren't meant to be cellarred, that they don't age well...that they lose "punch" over time.

WHAT IT DOESN'T MEAN IS; "drink a beer while it's still green and unconditioned." If you want a great tasting beer you STILL want to let the beer finish fermenting and give it time for the yeast to clean up after itself and condition, like any other well made beer.

I still after over a decade figure out how come this is so hard for folks to grasp....I think it just feeds into the natural impatience of brewers, especially noobs. We want instant gratification, and anything that seems to rationalize our impatience we jump on....and then wonder why our beer sucks.... human nature.

But good beers have a natural conditioning cycle, regardless of what it is...and an ipa is STILL a relatively highish grav beer- it's the same grainbill of other beers- still made of grain, water, yeast and hops- no different than any other beer, so they still need the same amount of conditioning as any beers we make, wouldn't you think? You still want a good beer, don't you?

The only difference is that hops fade with time, and ipas are hop driven, it's not a big deal in porters, stouts, etc...because they're more malt forward. But we want out ipas to be hoppy.

SO if you simply dry hop the final week the conditioning phase you won't lose that hop aroma, and taste, especially if you do a lot....but you'll still have a tasty, well conditioned base beer underneath....one that's not green or "yeasty."
 
Makes sense, thanks for the response! Have had real good luck on a couple quick grain-to-glass beers like hefeweizens and blondes, now i know the same time-frame is pushing it for an IPA. I'll try to keep my hands off it for a bit and see how it improves.
 
Brewing this bad boy on Wednesday...went to the LHBS and spoke to the owner Mark and two of his guys all three recommended Wyeast 1098 British Ale so I'm giving it a go and see what I come up with...will post updates as they come
 
Brewed this up today...BS said 1.067, I got 1.064 so I'm not stressing...pitched yeast at 72° and put it into the cool brew bag gonna check on it tonight before bed but the sample tasted great...looking forward to this one
 
Brewing this bad boy on Wednesday...went to the LHBS and spoke to the owner Mark and two of his guys all three recommended Wyeast 1098 British Ale so I'm giving it a go and see what I come up with...will post updates as they come

Interesting that they would recommend that yeast. You'll have to let us know how it turns out.

I personally have stuck with Wyeast 1272 with great results. I used to harvest from Bells brews but I've found the Wyeast to be close enough. Although I just brewed another batch last weekend and I had to settle on using dry yeast (US05) as my online HBS I usually order from was out of 1272 and couldn't get it to me before I needed it to brew. I've had good results with US05 though so I'm not worried...:mug:
 
Interesting that they would recommend that yeast. You'll have to let us know how it turns out.

I personally have stuck with Wyeast 1272 with great results. I used to harvest from Bells brews but I've found the Wyeast to be close enough. Although I just brewed another batch last weekend and I had to settle on using dry yeast (US05) as my online HBS I usually order from was out of 1272 and couldn't get it to me before I needed it to brew. I've had good results with US05 though so I'm not worried...:mug:

I thought it was interesting as well...it was hard to argue with Mark he hasn't led me astray yet and he's written numerous books on clones so we'll see how it goes...its bubbling away nicely at 64° degrees so I'll keep posting updates!
 
Sorry -- dying to brew this, but don't have time to read 126 pages. 2 more questions, anything like a consensus on yeast? And what is the water profile and mash ph we're shooting for?

Thanks!! This looks awesome.
 
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