Bells Oberon Clone

[Tiber_Brew]

10 gal final volume

11 lbs 2-Row
8 lbs malted wheat
2 lbs munich
.5 lb C-40

Mash at 155 for 90 min

1 oz. American tettnang 4.8%aa 45 min
2 oz. czech saaz 3.4%aa 30 min
1 oz. czech saaz 0 min
2 oz. cascade 0 min
2.5 oz. freshly zested orange peel (no pith) 0 min

Yeast:
carboy 1: 1000 ml starter US-05
carboy 2: 1200 ml starter Wyeast 1010 Am. wheat on stir plate

TB

This beer, Move Overon, has matured now. The batch with the US-05 yeast has been on tap for about a week now. The other three taps are occupied, so I can't yet do a side by side comparison of the two yeasts. I will offer what notes I can on this beer in the mean time.

I brewed this on 4.22.10 and at kegging (5.3.10) the US-05 was 5.3% ABV and the WY1010 was 5.5% ABV.

The US-05 batch is a hazy lightish orange, just about the color of Oberon. It has great mouthfeel, with medium-light body. Hints of orange aroma and citrousy flavor are owed in part to the 0 minute cascade addition and the orange zest. Some hop aroma is present, but not overpowering. The smoothness and "noble" quality of the Czech Saaz is detectable, but this is clearly a malt driven beer. Very drinkable, as I have put a few long sessions in with this beer and always want a little more. I tried putting a slice of orange in the beer and it compliments it nicely if that's your thing. (I know plenty of people who drink Oberon with a slice of fruit as well.) Head retention is outstanding. Good lacing on the glass. This will be a beer to brew again, that's for sure.

Since this isn't an Oberon clone, I won't compare it to Oberon. (Other than I'd rather drink this than Oberon any day.)

I'll update with notes on the WY1010 batch (kegged and waiting) when it's on tap.

Cheers!
TiberIfoundmyhotsunnydaybeerBrew

Well, the batch with 1010 wheat yeast is now on tap. Here are my thoughts:
Basically, it's the same as the US-05, but not as clean. The hop aroma and flavor from the late additions don't come through as well as with the US-05, but it still has a small presence. This one attenuated a little better, but no noticeable increase in dryness. Head retention, lacing, and mouthfeel are amlost identical to the US-05 batch.

This is a great beer! I recommend this highly!

Cheers,
TiberthisisthetasteofsummerBrew

 

[user 40839]

I'm assuming you're still going with a 45 minute boil on this, Tiber? I'm going with a wheat of some description tomorrow, I wanted to do the Oberon clone but I really don't want to mess with the decoction, since my time's going to be limited, so this is looking like a winner.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I'm assuming you're still going with a 45 minute boil on this, Tiber? I'm going with a wheat of some description tomorrow, I wanted to do the Oberon clone but I really don't want to mess with the decoction, since my time's going to be limited, so this is looking like a winner.

That's right, 45 min boil.

Good luck to ya,
TB

 

[Randar]

SECOND Problem was the carmel and complexity. that took me a while to fix - finally, I found it: Decoction. I have been on a decoction kick for a while and decided that this could be a candidate.

Start in at 133F for 15 minutes
Decoc 12 pints of mash (adjust this for your system)
155F for 60minutes
mash out.

But why go right to a decoction here vs say, mashing in at a higher temp to convert a slightly smaller percentage of the sugars by zipping right on by the Beta Amylase temps? Even if you start in at 133 and then bump to 157-158 for 60 min? I understand you were/are all into decoctions at the time, but I think you should be able to reproduce the malt profile of Oberon sans decoction. I would guess a higher mash temp and some Munich would get you pretty close for a first pass. I intend to try this in addition to the heavy Saaz usage as that is something I noticed in the original as well.

Edit: Based on my usual mash schedule I believe I would finish with a beer in the 1.008 range for these ingredients if the Bell's yeast is roughly 75-78% attuative. This is obviously much too low for the Oberon range, which is 1.013-1.014 final gravity. Hence, I would like to try this with a higher Alpha rest and a low-end beta rest (133 as noted) and see if I can replicate the lower level of fermentables with the mash schedule and the malty backbone with some combination of Munich and c60.

 

[Cryptochronolite]

>>But why go right to a decoction here vs say, mashing in at a higher temp to convert a slightly smaller percentage of the sugars by zipping right on by the Beta Amylase temps? Even if you start in at 133 and then bump to 157-158 for 60 min? I understand you were/are all into decoctions at the time, but I think you should be able to reproduce the malt profile of Oberon sans decoction. I would guess a higher mash temp and some Munich would get you pretty close for a first pass.


Okay, so I just brewed this without a decoction, using the mentioned method. I added about .5 lbs of munich and mashed at 160. I think that it's going to be pretty good. The wort tastes about the same as I remember.

 

[ekjohns]

i agree 99% with this only i think 160 might be a tad high?

 

[Cryptochronolite]

I think so too, but, it is what it is. I wanted to do it at 158, but I am starting to get tired of this beer so I didn't do as much diligence as I should have.

 

[Randar]

Let me know how you finish on OG/FG as well. I ended up botching my mash while playing with a new thermometer and I am almost certain I will finish in the 1.010 range. Would like to give this one another go next summer and curious how yours turns out. I will post my mash schedule and grain bill when I get FG readings this weekend. I can tell you right now that you want no part of the mash schedule I ended up with! LOL!

 

[rorygilmore]

I know this is an older thread, but I recently brewed an Oberon Clone with inspiration with the posts on this thread. I took a few liberties with the recipe to make it a bit bigger. Here's what I did:

3 lb Dry Wheat Extract
2 lb light DME
3 lb American Two Row
8 oz Crystal 40 lb
4 oz Cara-pils

45 minute boil
.5 ounce Czech Saaz (7.7) at 30 minutes
1 ounce Czech Saaz (7.7) at 15 minutes
.5 ounce Czech Saaz dry hopped in secondary for 7 days
1 ounce Cascade dry hopped in secondary for 7 days

Mashed the Two Row Crystal ,and Cara-Pils at 155 for 60 minutes. This was my first partial mash, and I used Deathbrewer's stove top method: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

Wyeast 1010 w/ quart starter. I don't have fermentation temp control, but I was mostly in the high 60's. The yeast smelled amazing, but you better be prepared with a blow-off tube. I hit my expected O.G. of 1.064, and finished at 1.016, for an ABV of 6.3%.

While I won't claim that I'm an Oberon expert since I can't get it in the Pac NW, I have had it several times. I can tell you that this recipe is very, very close. The beer came out fantastic, and had what I loved about Oberon. It had a really nice aroma of the saaz with almost an orange-y fruitiness from the yeast and Cascade, and a slightly malty taste with notes that mimicked the nose. The body was similar too. The color might have been a touch darker, but I suspect that if you cut back on the crystal a bit you could get a better match.

I would not hesitate to recommend this recipe to those that are newer to partial mash as it was easy and forgiving, and the result was comparable to a commercially brewed beer. For a partial mash brewer who had more experience, I would eliminate the light DME and replace it with an 3.3 additional pounds of two row, but you probably knew that already.

The only change that I would make to the recipe/process would be to add something to get more of the yeast out of suspension. I thought that since I used a secondary, and refrigerated the keg for a week before drinking, that most of the yeast would be pulled out of suspension. Apparently that wasn't good enough, as a couple of my buddies had, shall we say, a bit of an intestinal disturbance after an evening of drinking several pints. Next time I plan to cold crash longer prior to drinking, or add Irish moss to the boil. Any ideas if the Irish moss is a good idea? Using gelatin is not an option, as I'd like to keep my beers vegan.

Finally, a big thank you to everyone who contribute to this thread. You made my Midwestern-transplant friends very happy!

 

[Cryptochronolite]

I highly recommend Irish moss.

 

[Randar]

So, just an update since this thread came up. My color was spot on and the hops were pretty close, but my version finished far too dry to be even remotely similar. Still very drinkable, but higher in acohol, drier, and the hops are more pronounced without the sweeter maltiness showing through.

Next time I try it I will definitely mash at 158 and may cut back a pinch on hops. Also considering using a pinch of melanoidin malt... Will update if I get around to it in the spring.

 

[Tumpster]

I was considering doing this but using cascade hops? Whatcha think?

 

[JSomps6]

I think so too, but, it is what it is. I wanted to do it at 158, but I am starting to get tired of this beer so I didn't do as much diligence as I should have.

Crypto - how did this one turn out?

 

[Homercidal]

A new guy in town is in love with Oberon and would be SOOO geeked if I could make some homemade for him. Using this recipe as a guide, and his palate as a tasting platform, I should be able to get close. But I'm not going to bother with a decoction. I know Bells doesn't use one.

I may harvest some yeast though, since I have an empty stirplate and Oberon is fresh and readily accessible.

 

[Cryptochronolite]

I believe that decoction and a high mash temp achieve the maltiness required for this recipe. There may be some high-heat caramelization techniques that can mimic the decoction, or perhaps some adjuncts, but I haven't experimented.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

my next iteration of Titania is coming up tomorrow. I am going to rock some Melo malt with a single rest. I tried Titania with the original recipe and no deco and it was not nearly as rich. In addition, that last batch was fermented with Wyeast 1010 (am. wheat). Overall that was my least favorite batch of the four I have brewed (but it still rocked and was kicked at a party in about 2 hours). Anyway, this one I am going to use a Kölsch yeast at 67º to try for a fruitier character. Additionally, I will be splitting this batch down the road and racking half onto raspberries. I'll try to give updated notes on how everything goes.

................................................

Recipe: Titania
Brewery: Brouwerij Boerderij Kabouter
Style: American Wheat or Rye Beer


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 4.00 gal
Boil Size: 5.02 gal
Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 5.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 13.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item
5.30 lb Brewers Malt 2-Row (Briess) 56.08 %
3.50 lb White Wheat (Briess) 37.04 %
0.40 lb Cara-Pils 4.23 %
0.25 lb Melanoidin (Weyermann) 2.65 %
0.36 oz Saaz (Dry Hop 5 days)
0.73 oz Cascade (Dry Hop 5 days)
2.52 AAU Saaz @ 30 min
2.52 AAU Saaz @ 15 min
0.25 Whirlfloc Tablet @ 15.0 min
0.25 tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 15 min
Kolsch Yeast (Wyeast Labs #2565)


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 9.45 lb
----------------------------
My Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
50 min Sacc rest Add 14.18 qt of water at 165.1 F to reach 155.0 F

 

[AdamWiz]

Hello all,
I live in Kalamazoo and have several friends who work at the brewery. I have come up with an Oberon extract recipe that comes very close to the flavor and the aroma of the origional. The color is slightly darker - more of a coppery orange rather than a golden orange. But I found that my earlier version, which hit the color spot-on, didn't have the flavor I was looking for ( just like several people have said on here, it was a bit too dry and not sweet/malty enough ). And I would much rather have the flavor right than the color. According to the people at Bell's, no spice or orange peel or anything like that is used. The key is warmer than normal fermentation temps to get the slight fruitiness. In fact, they use the same yeast as in their more neutral beers like pale ale and amber, just fermented warmer for more fruity esters. Although most people have speculated that their house yeast is something along the lines of WLP051 Cal Ale V, I found that WLP320 American Hefeweizen comes pretty close to the flavor profile of Oberon if you can't harvest from a bottle. Another key is dry hopping with Cascade hops to get the citrusy,floral nose. I am working on an all-grain version, as I have been getting away from extract brewing. I will be trying out the AG version soon, as Oberon was just released and there should be some good fresh bottle yeast to harvest. Anyway, here's the extract recipe for anyone interested:

BELL'S OBERON ( 5 gallons, 3.5 gallon boil )

- 3 LB, 4 OZ Briess Bavarian Wheat DME
- 2 LB, 8 OZ Briess golden light DME
- 10 OZ Munich
- 6 OZ Crystal 60L
- 3/4 OZ Hallertauer pellets (60 min.)
- 1 OZ Hallertauer pellets (30 min.)
- 1/2 OZ Saaz pellets (15 min.)
- 1/2 OZ Saaz pellets (5 min.)
- Culture yeast from Oberon bottles or use WLP320 (American Hefeweizen)
- dry hop 7-14 days with 1 OZ Cascade leaf hops

steep the grains at about 155 degrees for 30 min., then boil as usual.(I add all but about 1.5 LBS of the DME at the beginning of the boil, then add the rest with about 15 min. left. Primary fermentation at about 73 degrees for 7 days, then transfer to secondary and dry hop for 7-14 days more(longer is better-next time I think I'll go 3 weeks as the hop aroma has faded from some of the last bottles of the batch). I think in the all grain version I will use some torrified wheat. Enjoy!

 

[cincybrewer]

Hello all,
I live in Kalamazoo and have several friends who work at the brewery. I have come up with an Oberon extract recipe that comes very close to the flavor and the aroma of the origional. The color is slightly darker - more of a coppery orange rather than a golden orange. But I found that my earlier version, which hit the color spot-on, didn't have the flavor I was looking for ( just like several people have said on here, it was a bit too dry and not sweet/malty enough ). And I would much rather have the flavor right than the color. According to the people at Bell's, no spice or orange peel or anything like that is used. The key is warmer than normal fermentation temps to get the slight fruitiness. In fact, they use the same yeast as in their more neutral beers like pale ale and amber, just fermented warmer for more fruity esters. Although most people have speculated that their house yeast is something along the lines of WLP051 Cal Ale V, I found that WLP320 American Hefeweizen comes pretty close to the flavor profile of Oberon if you can't harvest from a bottle. Another key is dry hopping with Cascade hops to get the citrusy,floral nose. I am working on an all-grain version, as I have been getting away from extract brewing. I will be trying out the AG version soon, as Oberon was just released and there should be some good fresh bottle yeast to harvest. Anyway, here's the extract recipe for anyone interested:

BELL'S OBERON ( 5 gallons, 3.5 gallon boil )

- 3 LB, 4 OZ Briess Bavarian Wheat DME
- 2 LB, 8 OZ Briess golden light DME
- 10 OZ Munich
- 6 OZ Crystal 60L
- 3/4 OZ Hallertauer pellets (60 min.)
- 1 OZ Hallertauer pellets (30 min.)
- 1/2 OZ Saaz pellets (15 min.)
- 1/2 OZ Saaz pellets (5 min.)
- Culture yeast from Oberon bottles or use WLP320 (American Hefeweizen)
- dry hop 7-14 days with 1 OZ Cascade leaf hops

steep the grains at about 155 degrees for 30 min., then boil as usual.(I add all but about 1.5 LBS of the DME at the beginning of the boil, then add the rest with about 15 min. left. Primary fermentation at about 73 degrees for 7 days, then transfer to secondary and dry hop for 7-14 days more(longer is better-next time I think I'll go 3 weeks as the hop aroma has faded from some of the last bottles of the batch). I think in the all grain version I will use some torrified wheat. Enjoy!

Adam, this might be one of my next brews as it definitely looks good. However a couple questions:

1) Does this recipe assume a full boil or partial boil?
2) Is this a partial mash? I ask because isn't Munich required to be mashed?
3) what would be a good dry yeast substitute? WB-06, or Danstar German?

Thanks.

 

[AdamWiz]

Cincybrewer -
Munich does require mashing to convert, but this recipe is from before I knew that. When I first started brewing, I kind of just jumped in and started making a bunch of stuff before I had any technical knowledge about ingredients. Since this beer turned out so well, I left it in the recipe anyways. I now have made both a partial mash and an all-grain version of this recipe, let me know which you would like and I can post it for you. As for dry yeast, I think the WB-05 would be better than the Danstar German. I think the German yeast would give you some of the banana and clove flavors common to German hefes that you wouldn't want in this beer(although it probably would be pretty tasty, it wouldn't be as much like oberon).

 

[JSomps6]

Cincybrewer -
Munich does require mashing to convert, but this recipe is from before I knew that. When I first started brewing, I kind of just jumped in and started making a bunch of stuff before I had any technical knowledge about ingredients. Since this beer turned out so well, I left it in the recipe anyways. I now have made both a partial mash and an all-grain version of this recipe, let me know which you would like and I can post it for you. As for dry yeast, I think the WB-05 would be better than the Danstar German. I think the German yeast would give you some of the banana and clove flavors common to German hefes that you wouldn't want in this beer(although it probably would be pretty tasty, it wouldn't be as much like oberon).

Please post the all grain version of this, thanks!

 

[JSomps6]

I know this is an older thread, but I believe I've just perfected the Oberon Recipe. I did some side by side tastings and after my fourth batch I believe I have it.

FIRST Problem with all these formulas was the nose, Oberon's citrusy nose is super evident. I found that it takes almost 3 oz of Hops, to fix this.

SECOND Problem was the carmel and complexity. that took me a while to fix - finally, I found it: Decoction. I have been on a decoction kick for a while and decided that this could be a candidate.

Here's my final recipe:

6lbs American 2 row
4lbs American White wheat
.5lbs Carapils

1oz Saaz 30min (leaf)
1oz Saaz 15min (leaf)
.5oz Saaz and 1oz Cascade in secondary (dry hopped for 14 days) (leaf)

Start in at 133F for 15 minutes
Decoc 12 pints of mash (adjust this for your system)
155F for 60minutes
mash out.

My first recipe wasn't as close to the original but I knew I was on to something. I used Wyeast 1010 (VERY CLOSE) but not exact. I then decided to harvest some Bell's yest from a bottle. - that's when it became perfect.

I started my fifth batch of this recipe this weekend, I am on the second generation of this particular strain of yeast, I assume it will turn out okay, but I don't know how many generations that yeast was used at bells, so....

OG 1.059
FG 1.014-016

I have only bottled this beer, I am going to keg this final batch and see how she does.

Anybody tried using Maris Otter for the base malt for the added maltiness?

 

[cincybrewer]

Cincybrewer -
Munich does require mashing to convert, but this recipe is from before I knew that. When I first started brewing, I kind of just jumped in and started making a bunch of stuff before I had any technical knowledge about ingredients. Since this beer turned out so well, I left it in the recipe anyways. I now have made both a partial mash and an all-grain version of this recipe, let me know which you would like and I can post it for you. As for dry yeast, I think the WB-05 would be better than the Danstar German. I think the German yeast would give you some of the banana and clove flavors common to German hefes that you wouldn't want in this beer(although it probably would be pretty tasty, it wouldn't be as much like oberon).

Thanks for the info. I'm pretty much an extract only brewer right now but maybe there is a sub for munich that will get me pretty close. Thanks for the advice on the yeast, I think I'd want to keep it away from the banana and clove flavors.

 

[AdamWiz]

I'm pretty much an extract only brewer right now but maybe there is a sub for munich that will get me pretty close.

Since it's not a big part of the recipe, I would just go with the Munich. Just because you're not mashing it and getting fermentable sugars from it, that doesn't mean it's not contributing anything. It will still add some characteristic color and flavor. I have seen plenty of extract recipes that steep a small amount of Munich.

 

[AdamWiz]

Please post the all grain version of this, thanks!

Here's the AG recipe, sorry it took so long - I missed your post.

- 4lb, 8oz Wheat malt
- 4lb, 4oz 2-row
- 10 oz Munich
- 8 oz caravienne
- 1 oz Hallertauer(4.3%AA) 60 min.
- 1/2 oz Hallertauer(4.3%AA) 30 min.
- 1/2 oz Saaz(3.3%AA) 15 min.
- 1/2 oz Saaz(3.3%AA) 5 min.
- 1 oz Cascade leaf hops for dry hopping
- WLP320 American hefeweizen, or culture from Bell's oberon or pale ale bottles

Mash @ 153 for 60 min, mashout to 168, boil as usual, primary for 4-7 days @ 70-72 degrees F then dry hop with 1 oz. Cascade hops for 7-14 days. OG is about 1.056, FG about 1.014, 23 IBUs. I used this recipe for the first time last week, so I haven't tasted the final product yet, but judging by the sample I tasted it is pretty close to my extract Oberon recipe that has been successful. My old recipe had crystal malt instead of the caravienne, but I got a tip that the caravienne might work out better for this recipe.

 

[cincybrewer]

Since it's not a big part of the recipe, I would just go with the Munich. Just because you're not mashing it and getting fermentable sugars from it, that doesn't mean it's not contributing anything. It will still add some characteristic color and flavor. I have seen plenty of extract recipes that steep a small amount of Munich.

Interest, I didn't know that. Thanks.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I just transferred my newest iteration of Titania and I think it is going to be my best yet. See post #106 for the recipe. I just added all the dry hops, and it isn't carbed, but I LOVE the malt profile on this beer.

I think the Melo malt is going to be the way to go.

 

[Randar]

I just transferred my newest iteration of Titania and I think it is going to be my best yet. See post #106 for the recipe. I just added all the dry hops, and it isn't carbed, but I LOVE the malt profile on this beer.

I think the Melo malt is going to be the way to go.

Good to hear. I picked up a few pounds of Melo for a version of this recipe with that express purpose, to replace the effect of the decoction in a single infusion.

Make sure you post back with final results!

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I will. Give it two weeks.

 

[jbenjamin]

wait that sounded pretentious. and stupid.

What I meant to say was, I love obsessing over the flavors of beers. I would like suggestions of what beer I can obsess over next.

Hi Crypto, I have been reading this thread, and keep coming back to it many times as I will be brewing your recipe this weekend.

Have you ever had Honkers Ale, if not give it a try and maybe you can obsess over that beer next?

Thanks for all of your input on this thread.

John

 

[bmason1623]

Here's the AG recipe, sorry it took so long - I missed your post.

- 4lb, 8oz Wheat malt
- 4lb, 4oz 2-row
- 10 oz Munich
- 8 oz caravienne
- 1oz Hallertauer(4.3%AA) 60 min.
- 1/2 oz Hallertauer(4.3%AA) 30 min.
- 1/2 oz Saaz(3.3%AA) 15 min.
- 1/2 oz Saaz(3.3%AA) 5 min.
- 1 oz Cascade leaf hops for dry hopping
- WLP320 American hefeweizen, or culture from Bell's oberon or pale ale bottles

Mash @ 153 for 60 min, mashout to 168, boil as usual, primary for 4-7 days @ 70-72 degrees F then dry hop with 1 oz. Cascade hops for 7-14 days. OG is about 1.056, FG about 1.014, 23 IBUs. I used this recipe for the first time last week, so I haven't tasted the final product yet, but judging by the sample I tasted it is pretty close to my extract Oberon recipe that has been successful. My old recipe had crystal malt instead of the caravienne, but I got a tip that the caravienne might work out better for this recipe.

what's the batch size of this recipe?