Bell’s Brewery sends cease and desist letter to Northern Brewer

[wedge421]

In fairness to Bells they do need to protect their intellectual property rights or everyone could walk all over them. Yes it sucks but its business.

 

[rjwhite41]

I don't have any problem with what Bell's did and I don't have any problem with what NB did. Bell's made an intelligent legal decision. NB used it to get some publicity about a name change for a popular product. Kudos to both. Tonight, when I get off work, I'm going to go buy some Two Hearted and enjoy it while I think about all of you that are no longer willing to support an awesome craft brewery because they are running a legitimate business. On a positive note, maybe I won't have to go to 3 different places to find a place that hasn't sold out of Hopslam next year.

 

[gingerdawg]

Change it to Heartless ale

No doubt!!

 

[MBasile]

Damn, cease and desist? If I was Bells I would've said "Keep the name, give us 50% of sales"

 

[incog]

Change it to Heartless ale

perfect.

 

[Revvy]

So I'm trying to figure out the rules for being an EAC (look it up) Beersnob of the "Beer Wars" Variety. As opposed to just a normal beersnob, like I consider myself, who enjoys great beer, but doesn't give a care what other folks choose to drink, nor has fault with making money or running a business (which is really ironic since I'm a "bleeding heart" liberal and therefore I'm supposed to not eat meat, wear leather, believe in capitalism or shave my legs.)

We have to hate BMC because they are the big evil corporate empire, and because their beer is the most popular on the planet and therefore it is crap.

But we ALSO have to hate the following micro/craft brewers mostly because they are too popular and/or they're not us and we're jealous. Maybe it's barrel size? If you are too big, meaning big sales then you suck?

We have to hate New Belgium Brewing Company, because frat boys like Fat Tire and therefore it sucks.

We Have to hate Dogfish Head and Sam Caligione because he had a tv show on discovery channel, and therefore his beer sucks.

We have to hate Jim Koch and Sam Adams because he runs commercials and sells a lot of beer, Sometimes he needs to have third party brewers contract brew it to meet demand, and therefore it sucks, DESPITE the fact that He supports homebrewing on so many levels including and not limited to making hops available to homebrewers during the hops shortage AND hosting the Longshot competition which gives a chance for homebrewers to have their beer brewed professionally, and showcased to a huge audience, but of course those folks who enter and win are actually not real homebrewers but poseur sellouts who's beer sucks (because it's not any of us who won.)

We have to hate Bell's brewery because he decided to protect his trade mark and therefore he must care about making money so his beer sucks (and he probably sleeps with sheep or something.)

Have I missed any? Do we hate Stone and Rogue because they paint their bottles and make it hard to re-use them and therefore their beers suck? Or are they for some reason "ok?"

Boy it's so hard to be a beer lover these days, with so many rules to follow. It used to be we just had to like good beer...../Sarcasm

 

[bob1852]

Have I missed any?

We have to hate smaller breweries like RedHook that "sold out" to bigger BMC companies to help them with marketing, influx of new capital, etc.; even though they make a good IPA and ESB.

And please don't respond with Longhammer sucks.

 

[Revvy]

We have to hate smaller breweries like RedHook that "sold out" to bigger BMC companies to help them with marketing, influx of new capital, etc.; even though they make a good IPA and ESB.

And please don't respond with Longhammer sucks.

Yeah, I forgot about them, and Gordon Biercsh as well. Because they make beer for costco and trader joe's and even though their beer is pretty tasty for something reasonably prices and they follow the reinheitsgebot their beer sucks.

 

[PVH]

I think I can clear some of this up for you:

We have to hate New Belgium Brewing Company, because frat boys like Fat Tire and therefore it sucks.

We do not have to hate New Belgium, but we do have to hate Fat Tire. If you live in Colorado, you are too cool to drink Fat Tire. If you live elsewhere, you're probably better off with whatever boring Amber Ale is made nearest you.

We Have to hate Dogfish Head and Sam Caligione because he had a tv show on discovery channel, and therefore his beer sucks.

We should hate DFH because their good beers are too damned expensive for us to drink a decent amount of them, and they sent a C&D letter to a brewery named Catfishhead, which is too funny to interfere with.

We have to hate Jim Koch and Sam Adams because he runs commercials and sells a lot of beer, Sometimes he needs to have third party brewers contract brew it to meet demand, and therefore it sucks, DESPITE the fact that He supports homebrewing on so many levels including and not limited to making hops available to homebrewers during the hops shortage AND hosting the Longshot competition which gives a chance for homebrewers to have their beer brewed professionally, and showcased to a huge audience, but of course those folks who enter and win are actually not real homebrewers but sellouts who's beer sucks (because it's not any of us who won.)

Cherry Wheat

Have I missed any? Do we hate Stone and Rogue because they paint their bottles and make it hard to re-use them and therefore their beers suck? Or are they for some reason "ok?"

You're right; those bottles are really annoying. Also, the story on the back of the ruination bottles is too small to read unless you're on your first beer. And it makes no sense unless you're stoned.

 

[Revvy]

Thanks for helping to clear that up, PVH...

 

[PVH]

Thanks for helping to clear that up, PVH...

Just giving back to the community that has given me so much.

But really, I can't think of a brewery I dislike for reasons other than their beer sucking. Maybe if I knew more I could come up with a reason to stop drinking beers I like.

And maybe I've never forgotten to pitch the yeast at the end of a brewday.

 

[zman]

Apparently you can still get it

http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewi...es/landing/three-hearted-ale-extract-kit.html

 

[MBasile]

Cherry Wheat

'nuff said!

 

[ChshreCat]

I don't like Sam Adams because their beer tastes gross. I don't care about commercials. I haven't watched a commercial since sometime in 2004 when I got my first DVR.

 

[drsocc]

Boston Lager, Sierra Nevada's Pale Ale, and Double Barrel Ale are my go to beers. They are cheap, widely available and tasty.

I'm amazed at the mountain people built out of this mole hill re: bells.

 

[larrynoz]

amen

 

[Montanaandy]

I totally understand it on Bell's side. To keep a trademark, you have to defend it. Pretty simple. They're not suing NB, just officially asking them to change the name. I will definitely continue to support BOTH Bell's and NB.

First of all, from a legal standpoint there must be confusion with respect to the products (I.e that a consumer would believe that NB's 3 HA "kit" was the same or similar to the actual Bell's 2HA. Please...

The gist as to why so many in the HB community are upset about this is because Bell's was very heavy handed with respect to how they handled this. Rather than calling NB and telling them "you know we don't like you calling your clone kit 3HA. Please stop selling it under this name because people might think that we condone this (like Surly does with their pro series that they allow NB to sell) they hit them with a cease and desist.

I read Bell's "explanation" for why they did what they did and they cited loss of goodwill among other things. Bell's will lose a great deal of goodwill becausenof this action. Surly will reap a lot more goodwill among HBers and beer drinkers.

 

[MBasile]

First of all, from a legal standpoint there must be confusion with respect to the products (I.e that a consumer would believe that NB's 3 HA "kit" was the same or similar to the actual Bell's 2HA. Please...

The gist as to why so many in the HB community are upset about this is because Bell's was very heavy handed with respect to how they handled this. Rather than calling NB and telling them "you know we don't like you calling your clone kit 3HA. Please stop selling it under this name because people might think that we condone this (like Surly does with their pro series that they allow NB to sell) they hit them with a cease and desist.

I read Bell's "explanation" for why they did what they did and they cited loss of goodwill among other things. Bell's will lose a great deal of goodwill becausenof this action. Surly will reap a lot more goodwill among HBers and beer drinkers.

I don't know, IMHO a cease and desist letter creates documentation that you've dealt with the issue in a reasonable manner. Documentation, from a legal standpoint, is always a good thing to have.

 

[bent]

I'm curious, if they change the name to "who sharted ale", will they get another letter because it still rhymes. Does a rhyme accually constitute copyright and patent infringment?

 

[HarkinBanks]

Did you read any other part of this thread?! Bell's has to defend their trademark to keep it, and the easiest way to do that is a C&D letter. It really has nothing to do with confusion or NB stealing the name, Bell's has to do this according to the US legal system to keep their trademark valid.

Yes, I read the thread. And I disagree with how Bell's handled this. I am an in house attorney and we defend our marks where it makes sense. You can spend money until the cows come home defending marks around the country and around the world. In this case, it could have been handled with a simple phone call. Bell's realized this after the fact and posted a response about it because they know they looked bad. It's just bad PR they should have thought about before sending the letter. I personally will continue to enjoy their beer, however I have lost some respect for them from my perspective as an attorney, a home brewer and beer enthusiast.

 

[jbrookeiv]

Yes, I read the thread. And I disagree with how Bell's handled this. I am an in house attorney and we defend our marks where it makes sense. You can spend money until the cows come home defending marks around the country and around the world. In this case, it could have been handled with a simple phone call. Bell's realized this after the fact and posted a response about it because they know they looked bad. It's just bad PR they should have thought about before sending the letter. I personally will continue to enjoy their beer, however I have lost some respect for them from my perspective as an attorney, a home brewer and beer enthusiast.

What if NB had agreed to change it in said phone call but then did nothing about it? What recourse would Bell's have? Being an attorney, one would think you'd get that. It seems as though Bell's are just trying to cover all of their bases.

You guys are acting like Bell's took them to court, they sent NB a formal letter asking them to change the name. Why is that a big deal?

 

[MBasile]

I'm curious, if they change the name to "who sharted ale", will they get another letter because it still rhymes. Does a rhyme accually constitute copyright and patent infringment?

1st amendment protects satire and parody

 

[drsocc]

Yes, I read the thread. And I disagree with how Bell's handled this. I am an in house attorney and we defend our marks where it makes sense. You can spend money until the cows come home defending marks around the country and around the world. In this case, it could have been handled with a simple phone call. Bell's realized this after the fact and posted a response about it because they know they looked bad. It's just bad PR they should have thought about before sending the letter. I personally will continue to enjoy their beer, however I have lost some respect for them from my perspective as an attorney, a home brewer and beer enthusiast.

It doesn't cost that much to have your in-house send a c&d and it's the attorney's job to do this sort of thing anyway (my friends clerking "draft" these asap pulling from the brief bank). Why wouldn't you protect your client?

I'm not being antagonistic, but genuinely curious. I know in California you can't charge 400 dollars for an hour of "drafting" you had your summer associate draw up and launch asap.

 

[Dougalsons]

I have been practicing IP law for over twenty years. Bells was right. NB was wrong. The C&D letter was the right way to handle it. It was also the gentle way to handle it. Good for Bells. NB responded correctly by changing their mark. Good for NB. No one was heavy handed. Bells did what it had to do and they did it in a fairly nice way. Just another day at the office for all concerned. IP rights were protected and business moves on.

 

[Revvy]

We have to hate smaller breweries like RedHook that "sold out" to bigger BMC companies to help them with marketing, influx of new capital, etc.; even though they make a good IPA and ESB.

And please don't respond with Longhammer sucks.

I think I can clear some of this up for you:

Oh I guess we're supposed to hate Shiner Bock too, despite the fact it's cool to see an old style regional brewer that's been around since 1909 actually penetrate the national market place with something other than a light lager, and be available even in the most BMC laden stores. I guess we're supposed to hate them because they're from Texas?

 

[ArcaneXor]

Oh I guess we're supposed to hate Shiner Bock too, despite the fact it's cool to see an old style regional brewer that's been around since 1909 actually penetrate the national market place with something other than a light lager, and be available even in the most BMC laden stores. I guess we're supposed to hate them because they're from Texas?

We don't hate Shiner because they are successful, but we dislike them for lying by calling their beer a bock, when it's actually weaker than a Helles!

 

[BrewDocND]

I've read this whole thread, and I still don't get why people are angry with Bell's. They went through the proper legal steps to protect a copyright and people are peeing their pants over it?

Also, I had a Hopslam last night and it was delicious.

 

[Jlsbrew]

No the reason we HATE Shiner is because they use twist off bottles!

 

[Montanaandy]

I have been practicing IP law for over twenty years. Bells was right. NB was wrong. The C&D letter was the right way to handle it. It was also the gentle way to handle it. Good for Bells. NB responded correctly by changing their mark. Good for NB. No one was heavy handed. Bells did what it had to do and they did it in a fairly nice way. Just another day at the office for all concerned. IP rights were protected and business moves on.

I disagree that this matter was handled in a "gentle manner" although as a fellow attorney what constitutes "gentle" likely differs from that of the general population.

I don't disagree that from a legal perspective Bells was within their rights in asking NB to stop marketing their home brew clone kit as 3HA. Again, what has generated the firestorm was the manner in which this was done. A simple email or phone call would have likely achieved the same result. If NB ignored this then send the C&D.

I have read Larry Bell's response to then situation and I certainly understand where he is coming from from a purely legal standpoint. However, the craft brewing & home brewing communities are unlike other businesses in many different ways. Competitors get together to collaborate together on products and brewers/breweries routinely share their recipes/input with home brewers. I don't think Vinnie and Russian River have suffered any economic loss by being so open about their recipes. Quite to the contrary.

Go to Ska Brewery's website if you want to get a perspective of what some in the industry think about this matter...

 

[drsocc]

I can't tell what you're pointing to on Ska's site.

A quick phone call isn't going to give the documentation you need to defend your trademark. It isn't only about NB. It is about defending from future challenges to your trademark.